Devstream 31 Overview Part 2, Kubrow

[KriLL3]

Yeah I'm not too fond of the timers in WF either, especially the ones with a platinum bypass, feels too much like having your fun of the game held hostage behind some annoyance you can pay to get rid of, hard to put into words but it feels like WF has too many ways of making you pay not to be bored/wait/inconvenienced, would be nicer if WF was more like some other F2P games where paying is something you want to do, which is the case for the cosmetic items and stuff like founders program, prime access feels too much like "don't want to grind all those hours to get new content? just pay!"

 

More carrot, less stick.

Edited June 30, 2014 by KriLL3

[vaugahn]

Yeah I'm not too fond of the timers in WF either, especially the ones with a platinum bypass.

 

If it ends up as "your kubrow is tired, pay 20 plat to make him happy instantly" I would probably just ignore kubrows forever. Which is a shame, because devs seem to have put a lot of work in to them.

[S3EK3R]

Maybe if we stick the caring for log-in time only, it would be great. What I mean is, you were on a vacation an nothing happened, because you were not online.

 

You were logged in for 20 hours straight without even glancing at your Coolbro. He is not rather angry with you.

 

I think this kind of implementation would be way better.

 

Also, get rid of the mission limit.

[zoboso]

I'd like to thank who ever thought Tamagachi and 5MWD went well together. The systems are contradictory and I can only hope that in the game the two systems act as a cohesive whole.

[mrecentric]

Drew just made a post about the ship still being worked on this week. I doubt it will be wednesday.

 

What are they going to do, invent a number that exists between 13.9 and 14 but isn't another decimal place?

[KriLL3]

What are they going to do, invent a number that exists between 13.9 and 14 but isn't another decimal place?

 

Software versioning doesn't work that way, 13.10 is a valid version.

[OniDax]

What are they going to do, invent a number that exists between 13.9 and 14 but isn't another decimal place?

 

It's not coming this week. Accept it. And yes, 13.10 is valid, as has been said.

 

 

Also, I think I'll stick with my Wyrm Prime. You're making the Kubrow a pain to use. What are its advantages over Sentinels?

[unknow99]

I'm really surprised nobody has already mentioned this : we really should be able to give them Orders. (just simple orders like "go there" "kill this one"...otherwise they're not different than sentinels.)

 

Also, those who don't play o a regular basis due to their work, or just their life(!) shouldn't be punished, else we may prepare to link our wrists to our pc with slave chains and grind. (Of course you won't make us grind for them...Right?)

 

Finally, this : http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2925ij/dear_de_nvidia_fur_tech_would_do_wonders_for_the/ (toggleable, of course)

 

tl,dr : no grind for tamagotchi & no mindless "sentinels-look-alikes" D.E. please.

 

(Yay, 800th post :D )

Edited June 30, 2014 by unknow99

[RealmDestroyer]

I think it would be best where they do NOT punish you. But when you pet them or whatever, they get their 'buff for the day', resetting at GMT reset hour. Caring for them should give you bonuses but shouldn't be NEEDED.

[Momoynator]

I have no personal problem with "a-log-in-as-often-as-you-can-to-care-of-your-pup-for-maximum-performance" because, lets face it, I have no life to begin with. I do agree that not everyone is as lucky (?) as me so there shouldn't be too harsh of a difference (if any at all) in our kubrows just because I can log in more than them.

 

Hope DE listens to this and comes up with a pleasant solution for all parties because that is the #1 thing I'm hearing from people who aren't quite in love with the kubrows; too much time investment with shaky and uncertain results.

 

As far as the mission limits (though they never said there was a mission limit, only that their happiness will go down), just as long as there wasn't an absurd waiting time for his health/happiness to go back up, it's a decent mechanic (I'm thinking of an hour for full happiness from 0 and you took it on 4 or 5 missions or so and you can take him with you anytime and not only when they're on full happiness).

 

Also, I think they have mentioned this before, but happiness = health? If so, you could take him to as many missions as you want just as long as he doesn't get shot at much it won't matter... that would be nice. Play smart and you can use him all the time that way!

[CelsiusPrime]

Also I don't like the idea of sending them out into the wild, since the devstream said they're clones and need maintenance beyond just rest and food to keep their DNA intact, sending them off into nature with no assistance would in essence be a death-sentence, a better mechanic (at least IMO) is to basically regress them to an embryo/single cell and modify their genome at that stage, and let them grow into a cub again, that way it's always the same base Kubrow you're taking along but at times you choose to modify their DNA to adjust their abilities etc.

 

Would also be nice if you could save DNA patterns for later use, say if you find a combination that gives a nice fur pattern or good abilities etc, being able to save that pattern and perhaps even trade for it would be nice.

 

these are the 2 best concerns that I have found so far and I am most worried about. I think that they might be evident in the beginning but I have hope that DE with patch some sense into the Kubrow system later on

[SableSonata]

Great. More chores instead of improving the gameplay so it's more fun.

 

Why are pets that we can't even take in every mission getting more effort poured into them than the titular Warframes? 

[StallordD]

Will happiness and other variables have visual indicators to help us understand their limits? I'd hate to have to guess all that when trying to make the most out of my Kubrow. Also, I hope that the taunt system that has been discussed plays into their AI. A standard point emote would be useful to direct your squad mates, but could also be used to mark targets for your Kubrow.

[DavidSPD]

Confirmed for Wednesday :D

 

Don't post a link on a source or anything.

[PsiWarp]

No to dying Kubrows please. Have it go to cryosleep in the incubator and wake up feeling refreshed or something, albeit angry at you for not spending time with it.

 

Because for crying out loud (which I don’t want to do because my Kubrow died), there has to be some medical component in that genetics foundry to provide life support to our pet, right?

[Kinperor]

I am somewhat perplexed over the question of how can a Kubrow be called "more versatile" than a regular sentinel. I mean, with the sentinels, you can have more than one and their individual perks doesn't matter all that much, since you can change at will. Even on individual sentinels you can use some very basic but varied builds (attack versus utility). I can even have my Djinn act as a secondary health bar by having it tank a bit every so often with Fatal Attraction. Without mentioning that nearly every sentinel will have the "must have" mod of shield regen, which makes them able to be damage dealers, support and healers all at once. 

 

But now you're telling me that the Kubrow can be more versatile because they have a choice between 3 perks that has to be bred into them? And I can only have one Kubrow? Doesn't sound all that versatile. I am not comfortable with these perks being breed-only, I think the Kubrow breeds should give them different "affinities" to perks (as in, they can perform somewhat better at one task than the other), but outright locking that in breeds feels wrong.  

 

I also would like to use my Kubrow more than when his feels aren't hurt, especially if it's just an arbitrary measure. Maybe have some strains that will be able to better handle the stress of regular combat, and other strain that are basically "super Kubrows" who have a very high efficiency in mission but needs a lot of "maintenance" and care, 

 

Otherwise I'm on board with the rest. 

[Ziegrif]

Oh yeah!

 

I can't have my shield recharge on when I use a Kubrow cuz I can't use a Sentinel with the Kubbie!

 

No way am I gonna use it now!

[SquirmyBurrito]

Also I don't like the idea of sending them out into the wild, since the devstream said they're clones and need maintenance beyond just rest and food to keep their DNA intact, sending them off into nature with no assistance would in essence be a death-sentence, a better mechanic (at least IMO) is to basically regress them to an embryo/single cell and modify their genome at that stage, and let them grow into a cub again, that way it's always the same base Kubrow you're taking along but at times you choose to modify their DNA to adjust their abilities etc.

 

Would also be nice if you could save DNA patterns for later use, say if you find a combination that gives a nice fur pattern or good abilities etc, being able to save that pattern and perhaps even trade for it would be nice.

 

Good idea. I'm still partial to my idea though... Tossing it out the airlock and starting over just sounds so much easier.

 

Edit: I'm more of a cat person.

 

Also, inb4 kubrows end up looking like this

Edited July 1, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Xelorx]

Basic tasks shouldn't be limited to certain breeds. How is a Kubrow that only sniffs out loot and attacks more efficient than the carrier? It'd have to do soooo much better than the carrier since you know, it can only go on a limited number of missions per day.

My Kubrow should be able to adequately stealth, dig, and hunt without having to be bred to do that. Period. I'd rather TEACH them how to do it, which is a much better way to improve your Kubrow than breeding so they just know how. And hunting is hardly useful btw when you can just equip a radar for enemies, or, you know, kill the marker yourself which everyone does anyways. The capture mission type is the easiest to do.

Also your stealth system isn't even quite ready either. I hope anything you guys do to the Kubrows that it will fit well with more stealth improvements. Not to mention that stealth STILL doesn't have much of an incentive. Rescue missions were a good start, but holy crap are they so easy with a Loki. I barely have to mod him to be more than efficient for Rescue missions.

Some would call this a summary but I hope these bullet points are noted:

- If you want Kubrows to be specialized in something like digging, that's fine, as long as they are able to do other basic functions too, albeit not as well the other Kubrows who can stealth or hunt better.

- Breeding should not be what makes your dog able to do like trivial tasks that a sentinel can do without micromanagement. Breeding should only be for fur patterns, body types, and personalities that make sense. Personalities like aggressiveness, docile, adventurous, etc all make sense, but shouldn't limit them. Instead, teaching them through innovative ways is much more fun, rewarding, and convenient.

- Kubrow's should only age, get hungry, etc when you're logged in.

- Stamina limitation DOES NOT FIT in Warframe's style with all the grinding we do. It better be a tolerable stamina limit or none at all. If there must be stamina, Kubrows have to be beyond exceptionally useful, but I still disagree with stamina entirely. I agree with the Kubrow's efficiency varying a little though.

--END

To be honest DE, since you come this far with the Kubrow system, might as well implement it and see where this goes. But your priorities should've been revamping the game's shaky foundations before adding something on top of it. The more features you add on top of unfinished mechanics like stealth and the boring capture missions to name a few, the more you're going to have to revise when something gets adjusted.

Yes I'm aware your team does simultaneous work on many things in Warframe, and I do appreciate that. But the team going towards this Kubrow system should really put it on hold until the mechanics in Warframe solidify more, and focus on something else. But I'm not your boss or anything. Just please tread safely with this update at least, coming from someone who wants to continue to support you.

I know people will think I worry too much, but I don't. I may not have the latest cutting-edge build in front of me, but I feel my concerns will probably help at least a little with the next update. Please take all the extra time you need to make sure this system works.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Xelorx

[Skarmax]

One final point on Kubrow development is that bringing a Kubrow on every single mission isn’t recommended, due to how its happiness is tied into how often it is brought into combat.  While it certainly has more versatility than a Sentinel does we cannot stress enough that this comes at a cost; and saving ‘mission time’ with your Kubrow for only high level operations rather than general farming will likely be the norm.

 

Exactly how great a time investment, how far the Kubrow’s abilities range, and how quickly negligence will affect your relationship with the pet are all being worked out at this time. 

One more reason to not make any efford to get this thing. Why would I invest my time into something, that I can't just equip in my loadout and forget, like all my loyal sentinels?

 

Sorry DE but you messed this up. The more I know about Kubrows the less I want to grind for it. And overall U14 hype died for me weeks ago. I will probably update the game with next big event

Edited July 1, 2014 by Skarmax

[EtherealShigure]

AKLex Prime will be available for update 14 ?

[RespectTheInternet]

I honestly hope this Kubrow update goes over well. It could be something nice to take the minds off the grind and invest time into something else for a change . . .

 

But I've got my Emergency hype Parachute prepped and ready.

[-Oris-]

I cant wait to see these puffy animal killers :)

I lie this update

[Rhekinos]

I really love the idea for kubrows don't get me wrong but there are a lot of problems with it to begin with.

 

Will breeding them just be another RNG thing? If you're going by Mendelian inheritance then it's extremely likely. Of course if you get to save/trade/load blueprints for your kubrow eggs then that's totally fine.

 

Having to 'set your kubrow free' is another big issue for me since I'll get really attached to my kubrow but I want to be able to customize it as I please. KriLL3's idea is great though :]

 

Are the precepts very limiting? If I choose Stealth will it be unable to hunt my enemies down?

 

And then there's the issue with having to take care of them. Again as everyone said we don't always have the time or capability to login to the game and have some bonding time with kubrows no matter how much we want to. Make it not so demanding and let us able to do something with our kubrows using the Warframe Nexus app but don't force us to do it. Don't impose penalties for not having time to bond with them, just make it slower to grow perhaps but not die outright on you.

 

Finally the limited mission issue. I don't mind being unable to take them into any mission I want but why not give kubrows and entirely separate slot from sentinels? From what I've read they do very different things from a sentinel so why not remove the hassle of making one or the other redundant but let them co-exist?

 

I'm a huge fan of having pets and I hope kubrows will turn out fine :]

[Valiant]

One final point on Kubrow development is that bringing a Kubrow on every single mission isn’t recommended, due to how its happiness is tied into how often it is brought into combat.  While it certainly has more versatility than a Sentinel does we cannot stress enough that this comes at a cost; and saving ‘mission time’ with your Kubrow for only high level operations rather than general farming will likely be the norm.

 

Exactly how great a time investment, how far the Kubrow’s abilities range, and how quickly negligence will affect your relationship with the pet are all being worked out at this time.

Good god...

 

Don't overdo it with tamagotchi features... I'm sure I'm not alone when i say I really don't want something which becomes tedious in monitoring and looking after, not to mention in being picky over. The feeling of being 'forced' to do this or that, like having to log in to feed it (I seriously hope this isn't a feature, if so, you really don't play enough of your game and are out of touch), can wear off quickly and isn't a great facet of gameplay in any game. If I wanted a freakin' pet to constantly monitor and care for I'd get one in real life.

 

Got a strong feeling this whole Kubrow thing is going to show how out of touch you guys may be - especially if you do implement the features I'm expecting, but never adjusting them accordingly to whatever public opinion there may be - which wouldn't entirely be a surprise.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Naith