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Loki Training


chaos_shaper
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Loki master race people I need your help me in training to become a better loki so right now I have a 20 sec loki I invisibility and a reaper prime which deals about 360 damage with reaping spiral. I am mastery rank 6 so what better weapons are there and what should I sey my eyes on.

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If you're looking for damage, Dakra Prime, D. Nikana, and Dual Ichor, I think Bo Prime can fall into this category, but I don't often use it over the former three. As for the invisibility, Narrow Minded(Corrupted Mod), Continuity and Constitution(Nightmare Mod) will allow for your invisibility to last 30 seconds.

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My loki prime is 3 times formaed and the list of mods are as followed: Aura-Energy Siphon, Vitality, Redirection, Steel Fiber, Rush, Quick Rest, Consitution, Continuity, Streamline and Narrow Minded. The only ability I have on him is Invisibility. Combat Loki combined with Stealth Loki. Fast with quick stamina recharge, constant supply of Energy and little cost on abilities. 

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My loki prime is 3 times formaed and the list of mods are as followed: Aura-Energy Siphon, Vitality, Redirection, Steel Fiber, Rush, Quick Rest, Consitution, Continuity, Streamline and Narrow Minded. The only ability I have on him is Invisibility. Combat Loki combined with Stealth Loki. Fast with quick stamina recharge, constant supply of Energy and little cost on abilities. 

That is one horrible build. Steel Fiber is useless, Redirection and Vitality are next to useless since you are using permainvi build.

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That is one horrible build. Steel Fiber is useless, Redirection and Vitality are next to useless since you are using permainvi build.

Have you tryed it? Have you? I have, and it works perfectly for me.

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Stealth in a team game? Your doing it wrong bro. Get an Radial Disarm build an be an god amongst your peers. Of course hold an second build with max stealth ready to do some spector farming, does guys are really usefull.

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Have you tryed it? Have you? I have, and it works perfectly for me.

I have tried almost the same build, it doesn't have any of the three mods I mentioned, because they are 100% useless for me if I am permainvi.

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Have you tryed it? Have you? I have, and it works perfectly for me.

 

Working doesn't make it a fully sensible build.  There is no argument to the following statement here, it is a cold hard fact;  Steel Fiber is worthless on Loki, period.  The amount of effective HP it provides is absolutely a non-issue, aka you are automatically wasting one mod slot on something due to your lack of understanding.

 

The existence of Redirection/Vitality on the build are debatable because nobody is perfect and everybody will get hit eventually.  So having some form of defensive countermeasure is a very smart thing.

 

Basically, stop using Steel Fiber on frames with pitiful armor ratings.  Other than that you're good.

__________________

 

Now to chaos_shaper;  ArchBlood covered the basics in regards to good damaging weaponry, the only one I would add to the list is the commonly harped about Orthos Prime due to a combination of its range and speed with still solid enough damage.

 

As far as builds go, there are a fair few options to go with which boil down to a simple question;  What kind of Loki do you want to be?  Loki's base stats are horrible for most defensive mods, so it's non-conductive to slot things like Redirection/Vitality/Vigor but using them isn't necessarily always bad.  Steel Fiber is rubbish on any Loki though.  On the flip side he's very fast and has a lot of power, so focusing on his strengths yields better returns.  Then there's the choice of how you'll focus him in terms of power usage.  Wanna go all out on invisibility, everything else, or a combination?

 

To break things down simple enough, here's what his four abilities work with.

Decoy - Range, Duration

Invisibility - Duration

Switch Teleport - Range

Radial Disarm - Range

 

Loki is a surprisingly simple frame to build seeing as he doesn't utilize power strength at all, and only his 1 and 2 use Duration.  Focusing heavily on Range offers a lot of benefits and added flexibility to Loki's kit as a whole.  So as long as you're not going the always invisible route, focusing heavily on Range is smart.  Beyond that there's the option to run with Fleeting Expertise as opposed to not doing so.  Utilizing it either at maximum rank with the Arcane Essence helm or at 1 from the top with a one from the top Streamline offers a capped 75% Efficiency, allowing you to have nearly free usage of any skill at any time.  Additionally there's the option to either use, or not use Flow.  The mod isn't necessary if you do run Fleeting however, but that doesn't mean they can't work together.

 

Basically, you either pick a middle ground route and focus on a small number of Loki's aspects, or specialize more heavily, limit the size of your scope but increase its depth.

 

For reference, my main build on my first Loki who utilizes all four abilities is as follows;  Everything without an asterisk is at maximum rank, things with one are at one rank below maximum.

Quick Thinking, Flow, Streamline*, Fleeting Expertise*, Stretch, Continuity

 

I'd switch Stretch for Overextended, however the Derelict is not kind to me.  With one more forma I'd even change things up to allow me to have the option to swap Continuity for Overextended and still keep Stretch.

 

The reason I run such a build is because of how much flexibility it gives me in terms of casting capabilities.  QT is my fail-safe, it synergizes with Flow and only utilizes one slot for an outstanding increase in survivability since Flow dual purposes as survivability and energy usage.  Using Loki's natural mobility in tandem with hefty Decoy usage prevents one from being targeted a lot on its own, with a short Duration Invisibility as an added fail-safe and short burst in melee damage when needed.  I love Switch Teleport, and with the boosted range on it and Decoy, the build allows you to zip around faster than a Zephyr with more directional control.  Lastly, Radial Disarm is self explanatory, just hit it near a crowd and render anything that was dangerous into a joke.

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Working doesn't make it a fully sensible build.  There is no argument to the following statement here, it is a cold hard fact;  Steel Fiber is worthless on Loki, period.  The amount of effective HP it provides is absolutely a non-issue, aka you are automatically wasting one mod slot on something due to your lack of understanding.

 

The existence of Redirection/Vitality on the build are debatable because nobody is perfect and everybody will get hit eventually.  So having some form of defensive countermeasure is a very smart thing.

 

Basically, stop using Steel Fiber on frames with pitiful armor ratings.  Other than that you're good.

__________________

 

Now to chaos_shaper;  ArchBlood covered the basics in regards to good damaging weaponry, the only one I would add to the list is the commonly harped about Orthos Prime due to a combination of its range and speed with still solid enough damage.

 

As far as builds go, there are a fair few options to go with which boil down to a simple question;  What kind of Loki do you want to be?  Loki's base stats are horrible for most defensive mods, so it's non-conductive to slot things like Redirection/Vitality/Vigor but using them isn't necessarily always bad.  Steel Fiber is rubbish on any Loki though.  On the flip side he's very fast and has a lot of power, so focusing on his strengths yields better returns.  Then there's the choice of how you'll focus him in terms of power usage.  Wanna go all out on invisibility, everything else, or a combination?

 

To break things down simple enough, here's what his four abilities work with.

Decoy - Range, Duration

Invisibility - Duration

Switch Teleport - Range

Radial Disarm - Range

 

Loki is a surprisingly simple frame to build seeing as he doesn't utilize power strength at all, and only his 1 and 2 use Duration.  Focusing heavily on Range offers a lot of benefits and added flexibility to Loki's kit as a whole.  So as long as you're not going the always invisible route, focusing heavily on Range is smart.  Beyond that there's the option to run with Fleeting Expertise as opposed to not doing so.  Utilizing it either at maximum rank with the Arcane Essence helm or at 1 from the top with a one from the top Streamline offers a capped 75% Efficiency, allowing you to have nearly free usage of any skill at any time.  Additionally there's the option to either use, or not use Flow.  The mod isn't necessary if you do run Fleeting however, but that doesn't mean they can't work together.

 

Basically, you either pick a middle ground route and focus on a small number of Loki's aspects, or specialize more heavily, limit the size of your scope but increase its depth.

 

For reference, my main build on my first Loki who utilizes all four abilities is as follows;  Everything without an asterisk is at maximum rank, things with one are at one rank below maximum.

Quick Thinking, Flow, Streamline*, Fleeting Expertise*, Stretch, Continuity

 

I'd switch Stretch for Overextended, however the Derelict is not kind to me.  With one more forma I'd even change things up to allow me to have the option to swap Continuity for Overextended and still keep Stretch.

 

The reason I run such a build is because of how much flexibility it gives me in terms of casting capabilities.  QT is my fail-safe, it synergizes with Flow and only utilizes one slot for an outstanding increase in survivability since Flow dual purposes as survivability and energy usage.  Using Loki's natural mobility in tandem with hefty Decoy usage prevents one from being targeted a lot on its own, with a short Duration Invisibility as an added fail-safe and short burst in melee damage when needed.  I love Switch Teleport, and with the boosted range on it and Decoy, the build allows you to zip around faster than a Zephyr with more directional control.  Lastly, Radial Disarm is self explanatory, just hit it near a crowd and render anything that was dangerous into a joke.

Are....are you giving me a lecture on how I want to play my game?

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Are....are you giving me a lecture on how I want to play my game?

No, hes giving you a lecture on telling others how to play the game. If something suboptimal works for you thats fine - but don't tell others to do the same, that just rude/ignorant.

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Are....are you giving me a lecture on how I want to play my game?

 

You misread completely if that's what you thought I was saying.  Darzk hit the nail on the head however.

 

Bad advice is bad advice, and this section is called players helping players.  Telling people things that are blatantly incorrect like saying Steel Fiber is good on a Loki is what one should say in a section called players hindering players.

 

The only part of my long-winded post directed towards you was what was above the underscore line.  That's specifically why, after that line, I said "Now to chaos_shaper;" as a way to clearly denote that I was aiming the remainder of my post towards his issue of asking for advice on how to Loki good.

 

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If you want better survivability, Zurakci, it might be better to replace Vitality, Redirection, Steel Fiber, and Quick Rest for Quick Thinking, Rage, Flow, and Radial Disarm. Might as well utilize that large energy pool, if you are only gonna go invis, and Radial Disarm is great against any level, besides for Infested. Stamina isn't too useful, since you can regain it pretty easily, and some actions don't even need stamina at all. Melee, for example, uses stamina, but will keep allowing you to melee even when you are out. You can also do the run + slide maneuver easily w/ barely any stamina. For stealth play, it may be viable. But, considering at how weak the stealth gameplay is in this game, it's just not viable as of right now.

If you really are going to use invis only, might as well use Ash. It seems that you are trying to make Loki somewhat a tank, which he is the worst at. Ash has more hp and shield than Loki, and movement speed isn't a big factor considering that you will be safe running under invisibility and that copter weapons can make any slow frame godly fast. If you complain about Loki's invis being longer, keep in mind that the energy usage per sec of invisibility is practically the same for each frame, with Loki's being only .208 energy per sec less. Ash's Smokescreen also has a stun effect, making it useful for his style of gameplay: melee. I don't judge on how people play frames, but there are better ways to play Loki than how you are doing it.

EDIT: Forgot to answer the dude's question. Here's basically an end-game loadout:

Boltor Prime

Angstrum

Dakra P + Crimson Dervish

I like this loadout a lot for it's dmg, and you will save a lot of energy when life stealing w/ Dakra P due to it being the hardest hitting melee weapon per strike.

Edited by Yazeth
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For things like group void survival I've got a (somewhat) mixed build:

All abilities on, Natural Talent, Flow, Streamline, Continuity, Overextended, and Stretch. Energy Siphon for Aura, but you can swap it out with w/e you'd prefer.

(should also note I'm using Loki Prime with no Formae, 11 points left with siphon though and Natural talent's not even in the right polarity)

 

For Primary I've currently got a corrosive+crit+damage build on Soma which only takes two forma as I've got it currently

 

Secondary I usually grab Marelok and make it magnetic+status and use that for shielded enemies

 

As for melee, you can make almost anything work well due to the damage bonus and crits that come with invis, personally I'm using Orthos Prime or Dual Cleavers with a crit damage build. Otherwise you can just use what you're comfortable with.

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Most Loki players probably agree that having 2 loadouts is a good idea. The first is my most used support setup, the second being my selfish solo cap setup. For me this no forma all around loadout is great:-

Energy syphon- decoy, invis, radial disarm, overextended, stretch, natural talent, streamline, fleeting expertise, flow, continuity

This lets me spam disarm forever and i get 8seconds invis if i need to revive someone, or hack and slash at the cryopod.

Loki, OP no forma king of the hill xD

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Energy Siphon, Invisibility, Radial Disarm, Streamline, Narrow Minded, Continuity, Constitution.  After that, everything is gravy.  I use Vitality on Infested missions because of all the toxic clouds, and Redirection for Grineer and Corpus.  It's nice to have some durability, but I don't try to make Loki a tank.

 

http://azmytheconomics.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/warframe-loki-build-guide/

Edited by azmyth1
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I think loki prime doesnt need any forma, mine is snergy siphon, max narrow,constitution,continuity,flow,streamline,max overextended, invisibility,radial disarm, decoy and max redirection (no idea why) never out of energy and really great for all missions.

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Are....are you giving me a lecture on how I want to play my game?

Just ignore everyone they don't know what they're talking about! Ranked 10 Steel Fiber doubles Loki's Armor to 130 from 65, which basically reduces incoming damage by 15%, which does help!

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Well good for you then :D it works just fine to me.

I think what the thread is trying to say, and not getting across, is that Mods like Steel Fiber, Vitality, or most defensive mods, are ineffective by comparison, and this is not a matter of opinion, this is math, and the thing about this game, and builds, it is ALL about the math.

 

Loki's base armor is 65, so if I have you maxed Steel Fiber, it only gives you 136, which does practically nothing. That is less than Frosts unaugmented armor by nearly 60.

 

Loki's base health is 75, so even with a maxed Vitality, you will only ever get it up to 527, and 527 is not a number worthy of higher level play.

 

The same goes for Redirection, reaching a maximum of 555.

 

A better route for survivability would be to replace Vitality, Redirection and Steel Fiber with Flow, Rage, and Quick Thinking. With Lokis massive power stat, not only would rage and quick thinking keep him alive in a pinch, but it would also fuel his best defensive attribute there is: Invisibility. Honestly, until you are disrupted, Invisibility renders all of your defensive mods as obsolete, so they're just wasted space at that point. No judgment here, I'm just looking at the math of it. It'd even be more worth it to equip Antitoxin above Redirection, Vitality, and Steel Fiber, as the Toxic aura of those jerk ancients is all that will really bother to hurt a cloaked Loki. Still, if you want to play your Loki like Ash, or Rhino, that's up to you.

 

I like your play style with only one power though. I rarely use anything but invisibility as well when playing Loki. The only time I use anything else is if I want to level a sniper rifle up, in which case I ditch invisibility, and equip Switch Teleport, and Decoy, or if I am in a defense mission, and am feeling lazy, I will set a decoy to keep them away from the Cryo Pod.

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I think what the thread is trying to say, and not getting across, is that Mods like Steel Fiber, Vitality, or most defensive mods, are ineffective by comparison, and this is not a matter of opinion, this is math, and the thing about this game, and builds, it is ALL about the math.

 

Loki's base armor is 65, so if I have you maxed Steel Fiber, it only gives you 136, which does practically nothing. That is less than Frosts unaugmented armor by nearly 60.

 

Loki's base health is 75, so even with a maxed Vitality, you will only ever get it up to 527, and 527 is not a number worthy of higher level play.

 

The same goes for Redirection, reaching a maximum of 555.

 

A better route for survivability would be to replace Vitality, Redirection and Steel Fiber with Flow, Rage, and Quick Thinking. With Lokis massive power stat, not only would rage and quick thinking keep him alive in a pinch, but it would also fuel his best defensive attribute there is: Invisibility. Honestly, until you are disrupted, Invisibility renders all of your defensive mods as obsolete, so they're just wasted space at that point. No judgment here, I'm just looking at the math of it. It'd even be more worth it to equip Antitoxin above Redirection, Vitality, and Steel Fiber, as the Toxic aura of those jerk ancients is all that will really bother to hurt a cloaked Loki. Still, if you want to play your Loki like Ash, or Rhino, that's up to you.

 

I like your play style with only one power though. I rarely use anything but invisibility as well when playing Loki. The only time I use anything else is if I want to level a sniper rifle up, in which case I ditch invisibility, and equip Switch Teleport, and Decoy, or if I am in a defense mission, and am feeling lazy, I will set a decoy to keep them away from the Cryo Pod.

I would use Vitality with Rage and Flow. Otherwise you only get 89 energy when going from 225 hp to 2 and flow becomes pretty useless. With Vitality Loki has 555 hp so he gets 222 energy when going from full to 2 hp.

 

If you use life strike with QT+rage then Vitality becomes even better. Making it easier to manage energy and hp.

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To jump in on the current little bit about QT/Rage ect;  I'm in the school of never utilizing Rage with QT these days and just pairing QT with Flow.  Now that the two (QT/Rage) mods are now only acting in indirect synergy rather than the absolute and direct synergy of bygone days.  Back when utilizing the combo was practically literal invulnerability.

 

Anyways my thoughts there are just this, generally, you shouldn't be having to utilize so many abilities to have your energy drop too much away from being nearly fully topped off.  Once you hit 2 HP, Rage just outright stops working since you're not taking any more health damage, so when push comes to shove and you're in a very bad situation, one of your mods is literally rendered worthless.  That's not to say that the added energy is bad, but like Naftal pointed out, using only Rage without Vitality gives you very little energy in return during a major near death experience.

 

More or less, using Rage almost forces the use of Vitality to appropriately facilitate the energy gain through HP damage on a severely low HP frame like Loki.  So by the time I'm already going to run QT, trying to do Rage in tandem will effectively burn up 3 of my mod slots, with a fourth coming in should I choose to roll with Flow.

 

In the end, I'll stick with solely running on QT+Flow.  I won't deny the effectiveness that the other strategy grants, but I'm just not willing to run 3-4 mod slots purely for defensive purposes.

 

Edit;  Added a bit for more clarity.

Edited by (PS4)Bobtm0
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