Remove Super Speed/super Slow From Molecular Prime.

[ProfessorMeeseeks]

All the super speed does is cause glitchy hitboxes, causes frustration for people who are actually trying to have fun, causes people with low end computers to lag even more, and is just overall annoying.

 

Super slow causes extremely long drawn out missions.

 

Nova is now the new Vauban in terms of making everything boring due to being able to change the speed of mobs affected by molecular prime. What was so wrong with just the default speed being the only speed? Nothing. 

 

Currently, Nova users are using the super speed spam to rush through missions, yet they don't ever stop and think, "hey, this would go even quicker if I went solo instead of annoying everyone in the lobby who are actually trying to have fun."  

 

There is no competing with Super speed molecular prime builds. It makes everyone in the lobby just have to stand around and do nothing. Which makes grinding/farming/fun even more difficult because it's never fun just standing there not being able to do anything.

 

I know I can't be the only person annoyed with these types of builds. I have a couple friends who cannot stand these sorts of builds, I am one of them. 90% of the time when I see a Nova with this build, I abort. Why? Because there is no fun in it and makes mobs glitchy and extremely difficult to hit. 

 

I love my Nova, but I really wish they would get rid of Molecular Prime completely and replace it with something that isn't so annoying.  Sadly this will never happen.

 

Also, whatever happened to Molecular Prime being tweaked so it wouldn't cause lag spikes? Still happens, and the lag spikes typically last longer now too..

[Doughalo2]

wait wat

[AwwHeckASnek]

Not sure I understand either...

[MA347612890GT4078579132R]

"hey, this would go even quicker if I went solo instead of annoying everyone in the lobby who are actually trying to have fun."

Before I comment, did you never think "Hey, this would be even more fun if I didn't have the lobby open to randoms?"

 

I've never encountered or used a negative power strength (read super speed) Nova build, so I don't know how annoying those apparently are, but as for the default slow effect, how exactly is it so annoying? It doesn't cover the whole map, what game modes are you exactly having irritation in with things being slowed? I've never once had MP cause the mission to be slower, not playing with myself, not playing with randoms. Please do explain how MP actually makes your missions go slower, I am genuinely interested. But anyway, it's nice having some form of CC, I like the utility. Without the slow, really Nova's MP would be just damage and only damage (and a lot more boring like a bunch of other powers that do F*** all besides damage), and quickly lose effectiveness in any high level survival or defense (like a bunch of other powers that do F*** all besides damage). Utility makes abilities a lot more useful in end game and helps compensate (minorly) for how bullet spongy things can be.

[Rekkou]

If you adjust power strength accordingly, isn't it possible to set the speed debuff at 0%?

[ProfessorMeeseeks]

Before I comment, did you never think "Hey, this would be even more fun if I didn't have the lobby open to randoms?"

 

I've never encountered or used a negative power strength (read super speed) Nova build, so I don't know how annoying those apparently are, but as for the default slow effect, how exactly is it so annoying? It doesn't cover the whole map, what game modes are you exactly having irritation in with things being slowed? I've never once had MP cause the mission to be slower, not playing with myself, not playing with randoms. Please do explain how MP actually makes your missions go slower, I am genuinely interested. But anyway, it's nice having some form of CC, I like the utility. Without the slow, really Nova's MP would be just damage and only damage (and a lot more boring like a bunch of other powers that do F*** all besides damage), and quickly lose effectiveness in any high level survival or defense (like a bunch of other powers that do F*** all besides damage). Utility makes abilities a lot more useful in end game and helps compensate (minorly) for how bullet spongy things can be.

 

Maybe I don't want to have to play solo all the time, maybe I like to take the chance of finding a group that will go past wave 5 on any given defense. I always ask why Novas use the boring super speed build and their responses are always the same. To speed things up so the mission is over quicker. If they honestly wanted to make things go even quicker, doing solo runs makes it go even faster since you don't have to wait on timers or anything at the end of the wave. So it honestly makes no sense to bring that kind of build into a group. 

 

As for the slow, It gets incredibly annoying when you are doing survivals, extreminate, defenses, etc. It isn't common by any means, but I have seen a few Nova players built like that. 

 

As I stated in my original post, The default slow speed is fine. Anything slower tends to cause certain mission types to go even slower. Survivals and Defense are the main missions that are affected by the extreme slow.

[fatpig84]

Super speed makes infested survivals a lot more fun.

Because it means the O2 packs are much closer together and Nekros can do the same job but for MUCH less grief.

 

It is beneficial for the team.
 

 

P.S. I am usually the "Nekro" guy in survivals so I know what I am talking about.

Edited July 2, 2014 by fatpig84

[ProfessorMeeseeks]

Super speed makes infested survivals a lot more fun.

Because it means the O2 packs are much closer together and Nekros can do the same job but for MUCH less grief.

 

It is beneficial for the team.

 

 

P.S. I am usually the "Nekro" guy in survivals so I know what I am talking about.

If you can call standing around doing absolutely nothing fun, then more power to you. 

 

It is nowhere near fun when it's extremely difficult to get a single kill because the wave is over within 15 seconds.

[Psycho1848]

---

Learn to live with it or make Missions just with your friends or clanmates. I hate 95% of my random Runs but maybe the others hate me for the way that i play too. Thats the risk to play in random Lobbys, thats the way it work in 99% of all games.

 

...and please if you next time make a Rage Topic just speak for yourself and not for all.

[thekarubo]

If you can call standing around doing absolutely nothing fun, then more power to you. 

 

It is nowhere near fun when it's extremely difficult to get a single kill because the wave is over within 15 seconds.

Some people just want to get the mission done. There's nothing fun about a defense mission wave that lasts forever simply because the enemy can't path quickly enough.

There is nothing wrong with speeding up enemies or slowing them down for that matter. They each have their own situations where they are useful. If YOU want to get a bunch of kills, why don't you play solo missions?

[ProfessorMeeseeks]

Learn to live with it or make Missions just with your friends or clanmates. I hate 95% of my random Runs but maybe the others hate me for the way that i play too. Thats the risk to play in random Lobbys, thats the way it work in 99% of all games.

 

...and please if you next time make a Rage Topic just speak for yourself and not for all.

Who said I was speaking for everyone? I mentioned that I as well as a few friends are rather annoyed with these kinds of builds. I mentioned that we couldn't be the only ones. Also, who said this was a rage thread? This is a legitimate issue. 

 

Learn to live with bugs that Molecular Prime causes? How about we fix those bugs that Molecular Prime causes and not have to learn to live with them. Also, all my friends quit the game because of how bored they got with it. I have my own clan with my own dojo to prevent drama. I have been in multiple clans that were nothing but drama. I have no interest in even attempting to find any new friends within the game because a vast majority of people that I have run into are either trolls, a**hats, or people who don't know what they are doing and/or not willing to learn.

[ProfessorMeeseeks]

Some people just want to get the mission done. There's nothing fun about a defense mission wave that lasts forever simply because the enemy can't path quickly enough.

There is nothing wrong with speeding up enemies or slowing them down for that matter. They each have their own situations where they are useful. If YOU want to get a bunch of kills, why don't you play solo missions?

If people wanted to get the mission done quick, why would the join online matches when it would be quicker to run them solo? There is also no fun about a defense mission where you cannot get a single kill due to some Nova player spamming Molecular Prime endlessly causing the wave to literally end in 15 seconds. 

 

Kind of hard to run solo t3 defenses past 10 while trying to max weapons. I run online matches because it is actually quicker to max out weapons due to shared xp. Would take way longer to max out crappy weapons when running solo.

[taiiat]

i have no problem with MPrime slowing / accelerating Enemies. 

 

 

both have their uses, and if it was a problem for me personally, the answer would be to not play Online. if something annoys me to the point that i'm willing to leave a match for it, playing Online is probably not that great an idea.

 

 

the slowing and accelerating of Enemies is a couple great features that MPrime brings to the table. Effects which make the Power more interesting.

 

removing Effects that make Powers interesting, doesn't sound like a very good idea.

 

 

If people wanted to get the mission done quick, why would the join online matches when it would be quicker to run them solo?

people normally play Online because they want to play a Multiplayer game with other people.

 

when you play Online with other Players, you put yourself at the mercy of a Mission not going exactly how you'd like it to. everyone must live with that. since other people that you don't know are involved, they could, and probably, prefer to play Warframe some degree different from you.

 

what's your playstyle? i'm sure there's some Players that don't like how you play, that it stifles their playstyle to some degree.

 

everyone needs to come to terms with this when they agree to play a Multiplayer game. 

[Psycho1848]

Who said I was speaking for everyone? I mentioned that I as well as a few friends are rather annoyed with these kinds of builds. I mentioned that we couldn't be the only ones. Also, who said this was a rage thread? This is a legitimate issue. 

 

Learn to live with bugs that Molecular Prime causes? How about we fix those bugs that Molecular Prime causes and not have to learn to live with them. Also, all my friends quit the game because of how bored they got with it. I have my own clan with my own dojo to prevent drama. I have been in multiple clans that were nothing but drama. I have no interest in even attempting to find any new friends within the game because a vast majority of people that I have run into are either trolls, a**hats, or people who don't know what they are doing and/or not willing to learn.

It sounds like u speak for all people that trying to have fun... sry if i missunderstand it.

 

I never heard that DE say it´s a bug... maybe it is, but for me is it just logically that when +Powerstrange make enemys slower, -Powerstrange make same faster.

 

Btw u really think u can find a better squad if u search random, when u are not able to get a good one with friends or clanmate? ó.Ò

[ProfessorMeeseeks]

removing Effects that make Powers interesting, doesn't sound like a very good idea.

 

 

people normally play Online because they want to play a Multiplayer game with other people.

 

when you play Online with other Players, you put yourself at the mercy of a Mission not going exactly how you'd like it to. everyone must live with that. since other people that you don't know are involved, they could, and probably, prefer to play Warframe some degree different from you.

 

what's your playstyle? i'm sure there's some Players that don't like how you play, that it stifles their playstyle to some degree.

 

everyone needs to come to terms with this when they agree to play a Multiplayer game. 

Makes absolutely no sense to play online matches with the super speed Nova build. If they wanted to play online with other people, they should bring a different build or refrain from spamming Molecular Prime, spamming it may as well be playing solo because they are basically doing everything solo.

 

See, Online matches used to be good, you could meet awesome people who became friends. Now every single dark sector defense players out like this: Nova spams mprime -> kills everything so nobody else gets a kill. Vauban -> troll everyone while taking out every tiny bit of challenge their is. Loki -> troll everyone with switch teleport causing people to rage quit. Nyx spamming absorb -> glitches out other peoples bullets from halfway across the map, causing their bullets to do no damage and be sucked into absorb -> instantly kills everything. Ogris/Penta/Angstrum -> player shoots everything that everyone else is trying to kill resulting in nobody getting any kills but explosive spammer. 

 

The funny part of this whole post is that these types of people are already playing solo in online matches. Why not actually play solo and not ruin the fun for other people? Makes no real sense does it?

[taiiat]

The funny part of this whole post is that these types of people are already playing solo in online matches. Why not actually play solo and not ruin the fun for other people? Makes no real sense does it?

but the way you're playing frustrates some other players also, i bet one of my lungs on it.

 

so you should be playing Solo only as well, by your logic.

[AdunSaveMe]

Super speed makes infested survivals a lot more fun.

For some people*

[fatpig84]

If you can call standing around doing absolutely nothing fun, then more power to you. 

 

It is nowhere near fun when it's extremely difficult to get a single kill because the wave is over within 15 seconds.

 

I consider every frame to have a job.

 

I am Nekros, my job is not to out kill a Nova or Rhino but farm out the loot and keep the party top off with O2, energy and health.

 

When I am not Nekros, I am doing Trinity duty in Survival. Again my short duration blessing is designed for me to keep team mates health topped up. And that role doesn't gimme the ability to use a long duration Link to frag mobs with a penta or castana.

 

 

If you equate fun to kills, then use an equally useful fragger frame, like Mag in Void and Corpus.

You will be out killing Nova after 20 minutes.

 

I have reached the point where frags rarely mean a damn thing to me anymore.

I have accepted that some frames are better at killing, some are better at support, some are outright superior CC.

I have also accepted that each person has a different play style and preference.

 

You might hate MPrime's flexibility now but that doesn't mean the other 2 guys in the game with you agree.

 

Live and let live.

If they annoy that much, then you go form a pre-made that says NO NOVAS allowed.

Edited July 2, 2014 by fatpig84

[ProfessorMeeseeks]

It sounds like u speak for all people that trying to have fun... sry if i missunderstand it.

 

I never heard that DE say it´s a bug... maybe it is, but for me is it just logically that when +Powerstrange make enemys slower, -Powerstrange make same faster.

 

Btw u really think u can find a better squad if u search random, when u are not able to get a good one with friends or clanmate? ó.Ò

 

Also, all my friends quit the game because of how bored they got with it. I have my own clan with my own dojo to prevent drama. I have been in multiple clans that were nothing but drama. I have no interest in even attempting to find any new friends within the game because a vast majority of people that I have run into are either trolls, a**hats, or people who don't know what they are doing and/or not willing to learn.

The bug is with the speeding up of mobs, it causes hit detection to screw up and hit boxes to act strange.

 

 

 

 

but the way you're playing frustrates some other players also, i bet one of my lungs on it.

 

so you should be playing Solo only as well, by your logic.

See, what's different between me and typical Nova players are that I actually try not to annoy other players. I change what I'm doing if people mention that I am frustrating them. Your average Nova player could care less. Hell, even when I play Nova, I don't sit and spam mprime endlessly because I know it frustrates and annoys other players. I only use it when absolutely necessary. Not sit on a box and make sure every mob is primed at every moment of the match. I try my very hardest not to get on other peoples nerves but I'm sure it does happen from time to time. At least I make an effort to not become an annoyance.

 

 

 

If you equate fun to kills, then use an equally useful fragger frame, like Mag in Void and Corpus.

You will be out killing Nova after 20 minutes.

 

If they annoy that much, then you go form a pre-made that says NO NOVAS allowed.

I don't consider kills to be the main cause of fun. I have more fun contributing to the team and working as a team, not standing around while a single person solos everything. Yeah killing is fun and all, but that's not even half of it. The game is co-op for a reason, it is supposed to promote team play when in a match, not completely solo everything so the rest of the team is stuck standing around doing nothing. That is where my frustration comes from.

 

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any Novas. Novas are great to a team. Just not when the only thing that Nova player knows how to do is press 4 at every single chance.

Edited July 2, 2014 by ikillyou1990

[ODDragon]

 It doesn't cover the whole map, what game modes are you exactly having irritation in with things being slowed? I've never once had MP cause the mission to be slower, not playing with myself, not playing with randoms. Please do explain how MP actually makes your missions go slower, I am genuinely interested. 

 

With the previous changes to nova's MP the slow effect isn't instantanious, but in exchange it covers a larger area as far as I know, so instead of slowing down two rooms down to slow speed, it now slows enemies down in a roughly three room sized area for an even slower speed. The explosion radius got reduced too, making a few mobs survive the explosion miles away.  On defense missions you actually have to hunt for stragglers which extends the time you spend on each wave due to this(which in effect does slow your missions down.) Atleast that is what I figure the OP is pointing out here.

 

I can partly understand OP's point of view because I always encounter similar issues when I am pubbing. It is something that I doubt will change due to the nature of the game being grindy, which forces people to optimise their builds for fast and efficient killing. I'd advise either going along to missions with friends or clan members, or if that is not available, then your best bet would be gathering likeminded individuals through the recruiting channel.

[TrinityPrime]

Every other time I visit Sechura I'm either Nova or Vauban unless I'm leveling a specific frame. Players always seem to welcome Novas as they make the defense waves go so much faster and then there's the double damage.  During a lot of Sechura runs players leave early if they don't want to go 40 waves with that random team or are just after credits.  I get a lot more extended runs when using overextended Nova instead of Vauban.  I wouldn't say I spam MP but I do use it at the start of each wave and twice a wave on the medium to larger sized maps.  If anything I spam AMD a lot when I get bored.  I make a giant spiral of AMD balls into the sky then when they start to hit the top of the sky limit I plunge them all directly down.  Noone says anything about it though.

 

The OP is the first person I've seen who's expressed feelings of annoyance concerning Nova's MP speed altering effect. 

 

Well that's not true, I've been annoyed at Nova uses who used max power strength MP on Lech Kril or Sargas Ruk.  Fricken annoying but I asked them to stop and they did.

[Zaresin]

I'm with the majority. Don't touch the new mechanics for MP. If the OP doesn't want to risk playing with a speed/slow nova then play solo or with your friends. Stop trying to stifle other players playing style because YOU are throwing a hissy fit. Leave the group or form your own. Grow up kid. We all experience things we dislike. If you want people to stand by your stance I would suggest not trying to remove uniqueness from the game.

[Zaresin]

With the previous changes to nova's MP the slow effect isn't instantanious, but in exchange it covers a larger area as far as I know, so instead of slowing down two rooms down to slow speed, it now slows enemies down in a roughly three room sized area for an even slower speed. The explosion radius got reduced too, making a few mobs survive the explosion miles away.  On defense missions you actually have to hunt for stragglers which extends the time you spend on each wave due to this(which in effect does slow your missions down.) Atleast that is what I figure the OP is pointing out here.

 

I can partly understand OP's point of view because I always encounter similar issues when I am pubbing. It is something that I doubt will change due to the nature of the game being grindy, which forces people to optimise their builds for fast and efficient killing. I'd advise either going along to missions with friends or clan members, or if that is not available, then your best bet would be gathering likeminded individuals through the recruiting channel.

Ummm...only max range nova can do that and she speeds them up but with less blast damage last time I checked so correct me if I am wrong. Max strength slows things down with smaller range.

[Azawarau]

Before I comment, did you never think "Hey, this would be even more fun if I didn't have the lobby open to randoms?"

 

I've never encountered or used a negative power strength (read super speed) Nova build, so I don't know how annoying those apparently are, but as for the default slow effect, how exactly is it so annoying? It doesn't cover the whole map, what game modes are you exactly having irritation in with things being slowed? I've never once had MP cause the mission to be slower, not playing with myself, not playing with randoms. Please do explain how MP actually makes your missions go slower, I am genuinely interested. But anyway, it's nice having some form of CC, I like the utility. Without the slow, really Nova's MP would be just damage and only damage (and a lot more boring like a bunch of other powers that do F*** all besides damage), and quickly lose effectiveness in any high level survival or defense (like a bunch of other powers that do F*** all besides damage). Utility makes abilities a lot more useful in end game and helps compensate (minorly) for how bullet spongy things can be.

MP can cover most def/m def/int areas easily

[ODDragon]

Ummm...only max range nova can do that and she speeds them up but with less blast damage last time I checked so correct me if I am wrong. Max strength slows things down with smaller range.

 

MPrime's range is affected by duration, while the explosion radius is the stat affected by range. If the wiki is accurate then the slow starts at 30% on a max ranked ability, which gets amplified to 60% by intensify, so blind rage isn't even a must since the cap for the slow is 75%. 60% In itself is already a strong slow, so I don't think that one should build excessively for that 75%. The blast damage this way is still good(1000 damage according to warframe builder), only the explosion radius will be small. This does not take fleeting expertise into consideration, but even with this setup(Duration mods of all kinds+streamline+intensify) the power consumption of the ability is 70 which isn't that high considering the fact that Nova's base energy pool is high enough to allow frequent use without running out of energy too fast.

Edited July 2, 2014 by ODDragon