Rhino Ironskin Needs A Little Change.

[CeroOscuras]

OK so I don't know about anyone else but for me when the Rhino's Iron Skin fails it can really suck. I mean REALLY suck. it drops off it seems like at the most inopportune times. Now add in the overwhelming frequency of disruptors and it sucks even more. 

 

My idea is to put a small visible bar somewhere on your hud that indicates how much either time or amount of strength you Iron Skin has left. something like this:

 

|--------------|  Full Iron Skin

 

|---------| Damaged Iron Skin

 

|--| Almost Depleted Iron Skin

 

This way you can know its coming and adjust your game play for it.

 

Also it would be nice if you have Iron Skin active you could re-activate it to refresh its strength. Something like this:

 

|------| Damaged + F2 = |----------------| Full Iron Skin

 

I think these 2 changes would vastly improve the Rhino's game play and overall viability for high end content.

 

Thanks for your consideration.

[Hixlysss]

Yes please. Please? Cmon...Please DE? PLEASE?!

[ArchangelCJ]

this would be nice.

 

i would think that having a number overlay on the ability while it is active showing the percentage of health it has left

[Royzen]

OK so I don't know about anyone else but for me when the Rhino's Iron Skin fails it can really suck. I mean REALLY suck. it drops off it seems like at the most inopportune times. Now add in the overwhelming frequency of disruptors and it sucks even more. 

 

My idea is to put a small visible bar somewhere on your hud that indicates how much either time or amount of strength you Iron Skin has left. something like this:

 

|--------------|  Full Iron Skin

 

|---------| Damaged Iron Skin

 

|--| Almost Depleted Iron Skin

 

This way you can know its coming and adjust your game play for it.

 

Also it would be nice if you have Iron Skin active you could re-activate it to refresh its strength. Something like this:

 

|------| Damaged + F2 = |----------------| Full Iron Skin

 

I think these 2 changes would vastly improve the Rhino's game play and overall viability for high end content.

 

Thanks for your consideration.

I'm not a rhino player myself, but that is a very good idea

[Nighttide77]

I'm for this.  At least something to tell us how much of the Iron Skin is left, and the ability to refresh the ability back to full.

[Omega224]

DE has already stated that they prefer to keep things like iron skin to be visual indications rather than metrics on the hud if you want to know how much iron skin you have left just look and see how much has chipped off of rhino already

 

also I would be all for iron skin giving a movement penalty while equipped making you slightly slower and it not guarding against knockdowns theres too many rhinos running around in game

Edited July 3, 2014 by Omega224

[(PSN)SUZOOKUS_MAXIMUS]

this would be nice.

 

i would think that having a number overlay on the ability while it is active showing the percentage of health it has left

 

I like this idea. It's similar to how the timed abilities count down.

[unmog]

I think it absolutely needs to be recastable to refresh its effect. I think it should also scale with enemy level... maybe to balance these two things it slowly degrades over time so it doesnt last FOREVER normally. Instead of a bar, they could also have it visually degrade when damaged so it becomes cracked and less shiny and cover less of you. I think normal iron skin already does this, but the changes arent very apparent and Ive noticed the gold iron skin for rhino prime doesnt degrade at ALL! And what happened to my little energy diamonds that normal rhino has? I thought those looked cool...

 

Random other comment, I think all abilities on all prime warframes should have some sort of different cosmetic effect to distinguish when a Loki prime or Ember Prime does a special ability and when a normal warframe does the same ability... I really liked the golden iron skin for instance. We need more cosmetically different changes like this~

[SharkWithALaserBeam]

also I would be all for iron skin giving a movement penalty while equipped making you slightly slower and it not guarding against knockdowns theres too many rhinos running around in game

ive had this thought for a while now, finally happy somebody else sees my potential view.

 

this should drop the 90% of rhinos in the game for sure.

Edited July 3, 2014 by SharkWithALaserBeam

[Cannamancer]

Putting like a max payne figure of your rhino under your health to represent skins health or something would be helpful.

[CeroOscuras]

DE has already stated that they prefer to keep things like iron skin to be visual indications rather than metrics on the hud if you want to know how much iron skin you have left just look and see how much has chipped off of rhino already

 

also I would be all for iron skin giving a movement penalty while equipped making you slightly slower and it not guarding against knockdowns theres too many rhinos running around in game

I disagree with this vehemently! To my eyes and can detect no change to my Iron Skin as it deteriorates. if they want to make the duration based on how much armor has broken off then it need a very specific sound to accompany it AND in needs a much more power graphic rendering so that players can actually NOTICE that their armor is breaking.

 

I play Rhino a fair amount and a movement speed penalty would basically ruin it altogether. Without the arcane helm and Rhino Prime the Rhino is already massively slow. you have to farm Rhino Prime to get any speed. And with them removing the Speed Helmet you either have to pay through the nose for it or go without. Also, Invulnerable means you can't be hurt or damaged at all, so why would knock down work? I mean Both the Roar and Charge abilities already suck, BADLY, and need a complete revamp. That basically leaves you with 2 abilities rather than 4.

 

If you personally have a problem with Rhino that's your prerogative, however, if you want to talk about over played warframes then lets talk about Nova.    

[Omega224]

the number of rhinos far outnumbers the numbers of novas since fleeting expertise stopped being effective on her

[Meenmu]

Read the thread title at first and thought "oh lawd not again," but OP actually made good suggestions. A third number near health and energy or something along those lines would be really convenient.

Refreshing iron skin should be possible, though only to the normal initial value; if it stacked it would be way OP.

[unmog]

DE has already stated that they prefer to keep things like iron skin to be visual indications rather than metrics on the hud if you want to know how much iron skin you have left just look and see how much has chipped off of rhino already

 

also I would be all for iron skin giving a movement penalty while equipped making you slightly slower and it not guarding against knockdowns theres too many rhinos running around in game

 

ive had this thought for a while now, finally happy somebody else sees my potential view.

 

this should drop the 90% of rhinos in the game for sure.

Well, getting into specifics, heres some other ideas I have.

 

1= Iron skin if it slows you down, the speed reduction should gradually lessen as he loses armor and it degrades so you not only have a better visual way of telling how much armor you have left you also can "feel" it lighten as its blasted off you. So, maybe at full its 20% or 10% lower speed, and it gradually lessens until you get no speed reduction at 50% or 30% iron skin. He is supposed to be the strongest frame after all, he shouldnt be slowed down TOO much more in his rhino armor.

 

2= I still think its BS that it litterally lasts forever. I think it should gradually degrade and chip off over time... and to balance that let us recast it to refresh the duration. If it did these two things, it would be much better balanced and serve greater utility to rhinos. The amount it degrades doesnt even need to be very fast, it can last for multiple minutes normally for all I care.

 

3= The amount of armor you get shouldnt be static... it should be based off enemy level perhaps, a lot of damage oriented abilities should be based on percentages and enemy levels I feel... not just iron skin. But at high levels even Rhinos iron skin doesnt help much if any.

 

4= He should get MORE armor the higher his armor value. That would give rhinos a reason to equip that steel fiber. Heck the name of the mod even plays with iron skin. The more armor I have the more it should protect, can base it off power strength and armor just like frosts snowglobe [though snowglobe needs a buff... should work on enemy level too but thats another conversation]

 

5= It would be nice if his iron skin increased his melee attack or something... made him more tanky and frontline fighter. Not sure I feel about him being invincible to poison or energy drain and other stuff but thats also for another conversation later when people wanna *@##$ about balance.

 

 

 

Overall though, I think the iron skin ability by itself is overly simplified and there needs to be MORE to it...

 

For S#&$s and giggles though Ill do a short run through of his other abilities.

 

Rhino Charge is okay, knocks enemies down, does some damage, useful to get places. I just feel it uses too much energy for what it is. I feel the same way about all dash abilities though, even excaliber, its a pretty simple attack, maybe lower it to 10 energy if it isnt going to scale damage based on the enemy level and its damage isnt based on your melee damage. Really its damage should be based on your melee damage :/

 

Roar is okay... I feel it prolly costs too much too though for what it does. I know with the right mods it can last like 30 seconds and double your damage but I always felt it was kind of lacking for what it actually cost to cast it and rhino doesnt have much energy. Personal opinion there too.

 

Stomp is also okay... get a pattern here? Honestly I feel Rhino is in a good place compared to most other frames, ember for instance needs some love :/. As with most damage abilities I feel it should either scale with enemy level or do a percentage of damage instead, the stun is nice and unique and looks cool and can hit a good size area, But it used to ignore enemy armor, now it doesnt and its not really as useful. I feel all ults should ignore armor, or if it deals direct damage, do a percentage of health as damage instead. Otherwise, I think the stun should be effected by duration mods. I heard it was, but I dont think it actually was.

[(PSN)jenax002]

I disagree with this vehemently! To my eyes and can detect no change to my Iron Skin as it deteriorates. if they want to make the duration based on how much armor has broken off then it need a very specific sound to accompany it AND in needs a much more power graphic rendering so that players can actually NOTICE that their armor is breaking.

 

I play Rhino a fair amount and a movement speed penalty would basically ruin it altogether. Without the arcane helm and Rhino Prime the Rhino is already massively slow. you have to farm Rhino Prime to get any speed. And with them removing the Speed Helmet you either have to pay through the nose for it or go without. Also, Invulnerable means you can't be hurt or damaged at all, so why would knock down work? I mean Both the Roar and Charge abilities already suck, BADLY, and need a complete revamp. That basically leaves you with 2 abilities rather than 4.

 

If you personally have a problem with Rhino that's your prerogative, however, if you want to talk about over played warframes then lets talk about Nova.    

 

Roar doesn't suck. Did you just started playing this game or what? Anyways i totally agree with a Damage bar for iron skin but i disagree with OP's suggestion on the refresh part. That will make rhino much easier to use than he already is. If that has to happen, then DE should give trinity back her invincibility because the whole purpose of nerfing her blessing was to make the gameplay challenging not a easy mode race for maximum waves survived by being invincible. According to OP, refreshing iron skin while its still active should replenish iron skin in full which basically makes rhino invincible and there would be no challenge at higher levels. I mean Iron skin already makes you invincible to any kind of damage. so, i think its good as it is. lt will just be as easy as spamming trinity's old blessing.

Edited July 3, 2014 by (PS4)jenax002

[CeroOscuras]

Well, getting into specifics, heres some other ideas I have.

 

1= Iron skin if it slows you down, the speed reduction should gradually lessen as he loses armor and it degrades so you not only have a better visual way of telling how much armor you have left you also can "feel" it lighten as its blasted off you. So, maybe at full its 20% or 10% lower speed, and it gradually lessens until you get no speed reduction at 50% or 30% iron skin. He is supposed to be the strongest frame after all, he shouldnt be slowed down TOO much more in his rhino armor.

 

2= I still think its BS that it litterally lasts forever. I think it should gradually degrade and chip off over time... and to balance that let us recast it to refresh the duration. If it did these two things, it would be much better balanced and serve greater utility to rhinos. The amount it degrades doesnt even need to be very fast, it can last for multiple minutes normally for all I care.

 

3= The amount of armor you get shouldnt be static... it should be based off enemy level perhaps, a lot of damage oriented abilities should be based on percentages and enemy levels I feel... not just iron skin. But at high levels even Rhinos iron skin doesnt help much if any.

 

4= He should get MORE armor the higher his armor value. That would give rhinos a reason to equip that steel fiber. Heck the name of the mod even plays with iron skin. The more armor I have the more it should protect, can base it off power strength and armor just like frosts snowglobe [though snowglobe needs a buff... should work on enemy level too but thats another conversation]

 

5= It would be nice if his iron skin increased his melee attack or something... made him more tanky and frontline fighter. Not sure I feel about him being invincible to poison or energy drain and other stuff but thats also for another conversation later when people wanna $#*(@ about balance.

 

 

 

Overall though, I think the iron skin ability by itself is overly simplified and there needs to be MORE to it...

 

For S#&$s and giggles though Ill do a short run through of his other abilities.

 

Rhino Charge is okay, knocks enemies down, does some damage, useful to get places. I just feel it uses too much energy for what it is. I feel the same way about all dash abilities though, even excaliber, its a pretty simple attack, maybe lower it to 10 energy if it isnt going to scale damage based on the enemy level and its damage isnt based on your melee damage. Really its damage should be based on your melee damage :/

 

Roar is okay... I feel it prolly costs too much too though for what it does. I know with the right mods it can last like 30 seconds and double your damage but I always felt it was kind of lacking for what it actually cost to cast it and rhino doesnt have much energy. Personal opinion there too.

 

Stomp is also okay... get a pattern here? Honestly I feel Rhino is in a good place compared to most other frames, ember for instance needs some love :/. As with most damage abilities I feel it should either scale with enemy level or do a percentage of damage instead, the stun is nice and unique and looks cool and can hit a good size area, But it used to ignore enemy armor, now it doesnt and its not really as useful. I feel all ults should ignore armor, or if it deals direct damage, do a percentage of health as damage instead. Otherwise, I think the stun should be effected by duration mods. I heard it was, but I dont think it actually was.

1. Iron Skin only last forever IF IF IF IF IF you aren't taking damage. 

 

2. Think of the regular Rhino. it is slow as hell. now add additional movement speed reduction and guess what? NO ONE plays Rhino anymore. 

 

3. Start messing with Iron Skin and making the Rhino take damage and get knocked down and stuff takes away basically the main use of Iron Skin and makes the Warframe pointless. Personally, I don't think you should be able to be effected by anything ESPECIALLY disruptors while under the effect of Iron Skin  

 

I think the rest of your ideas are really good. An attack boost with iron skin would be really nice, also Iron Skin's strength scaling with enemy lvl and scaling with armor are great ideas.   

[CeroOscuras]

Roar doesn't suck. Did you just started playing this game or what? Anyways i totally agree with a timer for iron skin but i disagree with OP's suggestion on the refresh part. That will make rhino much easier to use than he already is. If that has to happen, then DE should give trinity back her invincibility because the whole purpose of nerfing her blessing was to make the gameplay challenging not a easy mode race for maximum waves survived by being invincible. According to OP, refreshing iron skin while its still active should replenish iron skin in full which basically makes rhino invincible and there would be no challenge at higher levels. I mean Iron skin already makes you invincible to any kind of damage. so, i think its good as it is. lt will just be as easy as spamming trinity's old blessing.

BUT, Trinity doesn't just make herself invincible it make everyone invincible. Also, at currently lvls at end game iron skin can break in seconds with basically no warning and then you get disrupted all the damned time. 

[CeroOscuras]

"Give him maybe 99% damage reduction maybe, have the armor degrade over time. Give him elemental resistances. Give him a melee buff so he hits harder with melee. Have that buff transfer to your rhino charge so you do more damage when you wreck into someone covered in metal." - UNMOG

 

and i agree with this completely

[taiiat]

why not... just put a Health Count where Power Timers normally go (on top of the Power Icon)?

 

it wouldn't need a new HUD element.

that wouldn't need a new HUD element then, only a bit of new code.

Edited July 3, 2014 by taiiat

[unmog]

why not... just put a Health Count where Power Timers normally go (on top of the Power Icon)?

 

it wouldn't need a new HUD element.

Hah, I totally forgot I suggested that before. But your right, that would be the simplest way to do it. Cant believe I forgot that, thanks for suggesting it.

[(PSN)jenax002]

BUT, Trinity doesn't just make herself invincible it make everyone invincible. Also, at currently lvls at end game iron skin can break in seconds with basically no warning and then you get disrupted all the damned time. 

 

And that's why i said that i am fine with a Damage bar showing you how much damage you have taken. I just do not agree with OP's suggestion for making rhino invincible by allowing him to activate iron skin when the current one hasn't worn off yet. I do not know about your Iron Skin but my iron skin (with Focus and BlindRage maxed) provides me enough iron skin for 80 mintues of T3 survival (and that falls way beyond DE's expectations for suggested enemy levels that we are supposed to fight).

 

What i am saying is if you are playing a co-op game with 3 other members, you are supposed to help each other out to survive but what your suggestion is gonna do is make rhino go off on his own (which he already does unless you have a veteran playing with Rhino Roar enabled to help team members) while not even caring about others. Being invincible from any form of damage (along with the speed and utility that he has) is already making a lot of new players think he is the god of warframe while there are so many other frames which deserve little more attention for their abilities. All 4 members in the team should bring something unique to the gameplay. Take for example, A nekros (based on his current state) helps in survival by spawning in health orbs and Oxygen bags but he is still squishy. so, its the job of the 3 other members to make sure that he receives less damage while he desecrates late in the higher levels.

 

I have so many friends who just rank up warfames and sell them while rhino just sits there without being touched. i just want warframe to remain as warframe not RhinoFrame. I would actually go ahead and say that he is actually well balanced right now except Rhino Charge ability (he doesn't need it, he already is faster along with his vanguard helmet and can run almost as fast as loki).

 

In conclusion, i will only agree with OP if DE makes rhino less mobile while iron skin is on (that actually makes sense. doesn't it? if you have a skin made of iron, no body expects you to run fast). Considering he is tank, he should be less mobile from get go, not race with the squishiest frame and still be at par with him.

Edited July 3, 2014 by (PS4)jenax002