Why High Tier Weapons Should Not Be Nerfed

[Fire_Ashes]

In Warframe right now we have a lot of go-to wapons. These include Brakk, Angstrum, Boltor Prime, Soma, Penta Etc.

 

What I have been seeing is so many people yelling for nerfs, what they don't realize is that Warframe NEEDS high tier weapons.

 

People have a choice to use these weapons are not, personally I will take my Burston Prime anywhere but I don't yell to nerf a boltor prime that just cleared out a room 3x faster than I could.

 

Endgame content needs high tier weapons with high DPS and these weapons deliver. Bringing them down only means that this content is THAT much harder for the rest. Think of the casuals who get these weapons so they can get to a 1/2 hour in t4 surv before they log off.

 

Do they need tweaks? Yes. Do they need downright NERFS? no.

 

There is only one major tweak that I would like to see with these weapons and that would be the Magical mastery rank.

Right now any Mastery Rank 2 can get a Boltor Prime (Last I checked)

 

DE said that they want more powerful weapons to be higher Mastery ranks and I hope this weapon gets the memo soon.

 

But entirely with the  High tier weapons please stop calling for nerfs. They DON'T need them! Use what you like and if someone wants to use a BoltorPrime let them. They usually earn it by themselves grinding for hours at a time. It is also a reward system you would be nerfing because then people won't go after that weapon also.

 

I am short on time so I am sorry I cannot add many more details but I hope this gets through some peoples heads. Please if you have anything to add please post it in the comments below.

 

Thanks,

-Crimson

[Arakados]

Yes, I totally agree with this.

Nerfs end up not being fun at all.

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

So you are telling the penta is not broken are you telling me its even remotely balanced? No just no you don't have to do anything except fire and blow up the grenade for 5k damage... That's demanding a nerf

Edited July 3, 2014 by (PS4)infuriatedplayer

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

So you are telling the penta is not broken are you telling me its even remotely balanced? No just no you don't have to do anything except fire and blow up the grenade for 5k damage... That's demanding a nerf

and if i dont use the penta some one else will stealing all of my kills removing any fun from my game. Edited July 3, 2014 by (PS4)infuriatedplayer

[DecapitatingJim]

I agree that high tier weapons should be better than low tier. Anyone with a working brain can figure that out. However, there is such a thing as being overly powerful. Most of the rifles I find to be fairly ok, but I do have issues with the Penta and Ogris, which I honestly feel could be fixed with drastic ammo reductions. In most games you get maybe 2 rockets and 20 grenades, in this you have over 500. Mastery rank locks would also help with things like Soma and Boltor prime. I think a lot of the op'ness of the weapons, particularly the explosives, is ammo. 

 

In all honesty forma is also a big issue, being able to make something 6x more powerful than it should be is quite broken. A forma limit or having number of formas allowed to be used per weapon tied with mastery, for eg: when you're rank 4 you can only forma something once, 7 = 2x forma, etc might also stop the spread of rank 5's with quad formad Somas ripping everything apart. 

 

Before anyone comes back with the argument "It takes a while to forma things that many times". It doesn't. I had a 3 day booster, and in under 12 hours I had burned through 10 forma. That was with breaks. I was getting weapons to 30 in single Dark sector runs. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by DecapitatingJim

[Lqn8r]

In Warframe right now we have a lot of go-to weapons. These include Brakk, Angstrum, Boltor Prime, Soma, Penta Etc.

 

What I have been seeing is so many people yelling for nerfs, what they don't realize is that Warframe NEEDS high tier weapons.

 

People have a choice to use these weapons are not, personally I will take my Burston Prime anywhere but I don't yell to nerf a boltor prime that just cleared out a room 3x faster than I could.

 

Endgame content needs high tier weapons with high DPS and these weapons deliver. Bringing them down only means that this content is THAT much harder for the rest. Think of the casuals who get these weapons so they can get to a 1/2 hour in t4 surv before they log off.

 

Do they need tweaks? Yes. Do they need downright NERFS? no.

 

There is only one major tweak that I would like to see with these weapons and that would be the Magical mastery rank.

Right now any Mastery Rank 2 can get a Boltor Prime (Last I checked)

 

DE said that they want more powerful weapons to be higher Mastery ranks and I hope this weapon gets the memo soon.

 

But entirely with the  High tier weapons please stop calling for nerfs. They DON'T need them! Use what you like and if someone wants to use a BoltorPrime let them. They usually earn it by themselves grinding for hours at a time. It is also a reward system you would be nerfing because then people won't go after that weapon also.

 

I am short on time so I am sorry I cannot add many more details but I hope this gets through some peoples heads. Please if you have anything to add please post it in the comments below.

 

Thanks,

-Crimson

You are saying what almost everyone says in a typical anti-nerf thread. That just because its OP doesn't mean you

 

have to use it. Just because a player is entitled to a choice doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. People will still

 

use high-tier weapons no matter what. Sure one can use a properly modded gun to get past the entire starchart, but

 

having OP weapons limits choice as you won't see a player using a kraken or a karak on a high level mission. It's

 

gotten to the point where most weapons are neverused at all because of these OP weapons. You might be right that

 

these weapons may be necessary, but thats more of a problem with enemies having to be bullet sponges rather than

 

being actually difficult. I would like it if DE tweaked weapons to be more balanced in a way that encourages different

 

weapon usage rather than just brakk, ogris , penta, and other strong weapons. But the problem is that DE either nerfs

 

weapons into the ground or doesn't do it properly which is why nerfs are often distasteful to the community. 

[Zerohades]

Why? I can make 5K damage with my marelok, and I don't think it's broken. And most of all it's a secondary weapon. Why a primary should be less effective? A grenade thrower should launch marshmallow?

 

I'm mastery rank 16 and a half, i have every weapons and frame for the moment except for the brakk, and i don't see why you would nerf the penta or the ogris. I don' play with them i like my latron prime, or my boltor prime if more DPS is needed, but why would we nerf other pleasure? If what the penta user like, is to blow everything up? Why not? Just disconnect after the mission and launch an other PUG, and if you are playing with mates just ask them not to come with explosive weapons.

 

I don't like nerf crying guys, let DE balance their game and play it how you like it, do not dict other player how to find their pleasure. Inquisitors are dead since long now.

 

Zerohades

[Detheroc]

and if i dont use the penta some one else will stealing all of my kills removing any fun from my game.

-complains about killstealing

-expects Warfarm to be fun

MR 5 confirmed.

[armedpoop]

high tier weapons dont need nerfs cause ya know, HIGH TIER WEAPONS. 

 

/Thread

[armedpoop]

You are saying what almost everyone says in a typical anti-nerf thread. That just because its OP doesn't mean you

 

have to use it. Just because a player is entitled to a choice doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. People will still

 

use high-tier weapons no matter what. Sure one can use a properly modded gun to get past the entire starchart, but

 

having OP weapons limits choice as you won't see a player using a kraken or a karak on a high level mission. It's

 

gotten to the point where most weapons are neverused at all because of these OP weapons. You might be right that

 

these weapons may be necessary, but thats more of a problem with enemies having to be bullet sponges rather than

 

being actually difficult. I would like it if DE tweaked weapons to be more balanced in a way that encourages different

 

weapon usage rather than just brakk, ogris , penta, and other strong weapons. But the problem is that DE either nerfs

 

weapons into the ground or doesn't do it properly which is why nerfs are often distasteful to the community. 

Why would you use a low tier wep in a high level misison? the kraken and karak are not good guns because you get them early. Early guns are supposta be weak. 

[Onryu]

The majority is only looking at the PvE factor of our current weapons.

If Dark Sector PvP gets implemented in U14, it goes without saying that a lot of our old favorites will be getting reworked in a need to balance them out.

But in turn, our PvE experience will also get affected.

[Kurnuttaja]

I agree, the easier the game, the better. This is one of the things I love about Warframe, it requires absolutely no skill whatsoever to play.

[armedpoop]

I agree that high tier weapons should be better than low tier. Anyone with a working brain can figure that out. However, there is such a thing as being overly powerful. Most of the rifles I find to be fairly ok, but I do have issues with the Penta and Ogris, which I honestly feel could be fixed with drastic ammo reductions. In most games you get maybe 2 rockets and 20 grenades, in this you have over 500. Mastery rank locks would also help with things like Soma and Boltor prime. I think a lot of the op'ness of the weapons, particularly the explosives, is ammo. 

 

In all honesty forma is also a big issue, being able to make something 6x more powerful than it should be is quite broken. A forma limit or having number of formas allowed to be used per weapon tied with mastery, for eg: when you're rank 4 you can only forma something once, 7 = 2x forma, etc might also stop the spread of rank 5's with quad formad Somas ripping everything apart. 

 

Before anyone comes back with the argument "It takes a while to forma things that many times". It doesn't. I had a 3 day booster, and in under 12 hours I had burned through 10 forma. That was with breaks. I was getting weapons to 30 in single Dark sector runs. 

I completely agree that Ogris and Penta need there own "explosive" ammo pools. Maybe not as few as you said, but still a seperate ammo pool. But they are as powerful as they should be, they are high explosives! They are supposta HURT. 

 

Also agree on the forma limits thing as well

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

-complains about killstealing

-expects Warfarm to be fun

MR 5 confirmed.

mr5?

[armedpoop]

The majority is only looking at the PvE factor of our current weapons.

If Dark Sector PvP gets implemented in U14, it goes without saying that a lot of our old favorites will be getting reworked in a need to balance them out.

But in turn, our PvE experience will also get affected.

If they rebalance weps, make them specific to modes as they have already.

[armedpoop]

mr5?

Mastery Rank 5

[Vaskadar]

Well, there needs to be a set ceiling for weapons' DPS, and a set floor. It can't be limited to just a few weapons, and enemies will have to be adjusted accordingly, but the entire game is in need of rebalancing and every weapon needs a pass. S#&$ty weapons need to be looked at, old weapons need to be brought up to par, top tier weapons need to be given drawbacks to justify having such ludicrously high damage.

[armedpoop]

Well, there needs to be a set ceiling for weapons' DPS, and a set floor. It can't be limited to just a few weapons, and enemies will have to be adjusted accordingly, but the entire game is in need of rebalancing and every weapon needs a pass. S#&$ty weapons need to be looked at, old weapons need to be brought up to par, top tier weapons need to be given drawbacks to justify having such ludicrously high damage.

No, no no. no damage caps, if we have damage caps, thats even more reason to use only one wep, the one with the highest cap. Weps are as powerful as they are on purpose. old weapons are on par for what they should be used for, new weapons are on par for what they should be used for. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by armedpoop

[(PSN)jenax002]

and if i dont use the penta some one else will stealing all of my kills removing any fun from my game.

 

Dude its a co-op game, not a competitive game. If you think your kills are being taken, then you should go play solo and get as many kills as you can if thats what makes you happy. The other option would be to create your own private lobby and invite like-minded people who won't use penta or ogris. Just because you think you are entitled to get more kills each game doesn't justify asking for a nerf and ruining the game for others who want to play the game exploding rockets and barrels.

Edited July 3, 2014 by (PS4)jenax002

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

Actually rank 11, im all too familiar with penta's outrageous ammo capacity and damage

[Jin_Kazama]

What we NEED.

is for the old weapons to be RE LOOKED AT.

eg braton prime.

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

-complains about killstealing

-expects Warfarm to be fun

MR 5 confirmed.

also here's an little of bit common knowledge pal, people play games to enjoy themselves and have FUN? Strange i know

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Any weapon, regardless of its tier, should always be on the table for potential rebalancing in the form of both nerfs as well as buffs.

 

Balance is important, that goes without saying, however a baseline must be set and thusly adhered to sensibly to try and retain that balance.  Right now we don't have much of any baseline to go off of, but there are clear outliers that are clearly "overpowered" and should, inevitably, be tweaked.

 

On the flip side of things, Warframe is already well in the direction of being a game which does indeed have weapon tiers.  However the tiering system in and of itself is outlandishly out of wack at this moment in time.

 

Long story short, it's all out of whack when the MR2 Boltor Prime outclasses so many things.

 

If a tier system is to work, it needs to be in a more sensible place to do so.  One of the few instances of things which fit appropriately with this idea is the Nikana and the Dragon Nikana, neither of which need buffs or nerfs and are in good places as weaponry and in terms of their MR lock.  Additionally, single outliers need not apply.  Having one/two things better than everything else is outright poor design as it eliminates meaningful choice.

[DecapitatingJim]

I completely agree that Ogris and Penta need there own "explosive" ammo pools. Maybe not as few as you said, but still a seperate ammo pool. But they are as powerful as they should be, they are high explosives! They are supposta HURT. 

 

Also agree on the forma limits thing as well

That was just an example amount. 20 and 2 would definitely be too low for the pace of this game.

[armedpoop]

Any weapon, regardless of its tier, should always be on the table for potential rebalancing in the form of both nerfs as well as buffs.

 

Balance is important, that goes without saying, however a baseline must be set and thusly adhered to sensibly to try and retain that balance.  Right now we don't have much of any baseline to go off of, but there are clear outliers that are clearly "overpowered" and should, inevitably, be tweaked.

 

On the flip side of things, Warframe is already well in the direction of being a game which does indeed have weapon tiers.  However the tiering system in and of itself is outlandishly out of wack at this moment in time.

 

Long story short, it's all out of whack when the MR2 Boltor Prime outclasses so many things.

 

If a tier system is to work, it needs to be in a more sensible place to do so.  One of the few instances of things which fit appropriately with this idea is the Nikana and the Dragon Nikana, neither of which need buffs or nerfs and are in good places as weaponry and in terms of their MR lock.  Additionally, single outliers need not apply.  Having one/two things better than everything else is outright poor design as it eliminates meaningful choice.

I agree with this. There defiantly needs to be a revision on mastery locks. I didnt even know the Boltor Prime was a rank 2. thats rather absurd.