I Want U15 To Radicaly Change The Way Players And Enemies Scale. (Mods N' Stuff)

[Innocent_Flower]

It's too late for U14, but 15 is a shiney beacon of hope. 

 

My problem here is that warframe isn't a great shooter. Why? Because of scaling. It's very rare that I perfectly find myself in a game of the appropriate difficulty. Either I went overkill with my gear to the point that I can stand in the midst of firing enemies, hardly getting scratched by a storm of bullets, with an automatic weapon that instakills everything or I'm going to be pottery with a peashooter.

Neither are fun and it's especially bad when the game is four player co-op and one player is getting +70% of the damage and the guy at  the lowest end is getting 3%. It makes the low players feel bad about themselves and resentful of the demigod in their presence. 

 

There are other things I'd love; Updated parkour, a clear market and drop tables, better gamemodes, more tilesets, working gear system, a new frame, tigris prime, the crocodile equivalent to kubrows... None of them are more important than fixing scaling; players, weapons and enemies

 

What I want is for the game to undertake a radical revolution. 

 

Enemies shouldn't just do more damage and have more health when you play higher level games. Enemies should unlock new movements and attacks, spawn more and more elite variants and have more interesting special units pop out. 

 

Mods should be less insanely powerful. They should still be there, but damage/health mods need to be weaker, whilst utility mods (faster reload, clip size, bleedout reduction, thief etc) need to be more powerful. Mods should be modifications tailored to the customization of characters, not just a means to make us silly-op. 

 

Enemies

 

Firstoff, most of the examples bellow are just ideas I'm throwing around. Just because one of them sounds bad or difficult doesn't mean you should writeoff the entire idea. Also, We're working on the assumption that all enemies do a decent amount of damage to players. Especially avoidable weapons like flamethrowers and grenades (less so fully automatic hitscan weapons, though we could also have that fixed by giving the enemy realistic accuracy at some point. 

 

 

Grineer examples

Butcher- can sprint. On higher levels can sidestep to dodge 

Elite butcher- Can parkour, dual wields machete

Powerfist- uses leap slam attacks. 

 

Lancer- Can throw deadly grenades.

Elite lancer- grenades are clusterbombs

 

Seeker- seeker mines detonate faster in harder games.

Elite seeker- deploys several mines at once. 

Heavy seeker-  Bigger (female?) more health, better gun (grinlok?)

Special, randomised seeker traits. Like fast rolling mines, flying mines, elemental mines and so on 

 

Trooper- high levels gain beserk run in which they rapidly run towards the player, firing. 

Scorch- Have napalm grenades. Get a range boost on higher levels. 

Napalm- Flames spread on higher levels. Meaning more ground is dangerous. 

Shock, toxic and ice versions apear as rare elite versions of scorch and napalms. 

 

Bombadier- missile Lock on is a feature present in mid level games. Also the missiles are slightly faster in higher level games

 

Corpus examples

 

 

Sniper- Lankas are very powerful but are offset by their laser pointer that tells the players where they're aiming.

Elite sniper- Can overcharge their snipers for explosive shots. 

 

penta crewmen- Bombs explode on a timer. They're easy to dodge. 

Elite penta crewmen- Crewmen use penta bombs as mines. 

demolition moa- a surface on the ground is targetedwith a circle, then the moa rapidly lobs small penta bombs into that circle. 

 

Shield osprey: number of affected allies increases with level. 

Red Power ospreys appear at higher levels. These look like red shield ospreys with red energy. However they offer free multishot to those they affect. 

 

 

 

Eximus examples

 

 

Grineer and infested prefer to give eximus to common soldiers. Corpus would give a lot of powers to robotics such as moa or osprey (see; power osprey above) 

 

Healing/Medic *name here*. Gives health regenerating aura to nearby allies. Has the power to give bursts of health to targeted allies. 

 

Lazarus *name here* can bring back  allies from the dead at half health. They also die after the lazarus is killed. 

 

Reinforcer: Grants armour bonus aura to allies in range. Can also give ironskin to targeted allies. 

 

Protector: Deploys shields for allies to use. 

 

Commanding: Upgrades and Unlocks higher level abilities for nearby units. For instance seekers get more mines. Troopers are going to get more agressive, chargers get a speed bonus. 

 

Caustic (infested only) Converts all fodder level allies into dangerous explosives and makes them run faster too. 

 

Corrupted

 

Low teirs get basic enemies. High tiers get all the enemies. That is all.

 

 

 

 

Frames. 

 

 

 

Because enemies aren't continuously getting more and more health; Abilities should be far easier to ballance. That's always a good thing, right? 

 

 

Because enemies are doing a more set amount of damage, Vitality and redirection should be less effective. Currently It's crazy that such easy to obtain mods are so powerful and so vital (440% at maxed is crazy)  That pretty much every frame requires one or both. I'm thinking that instead of 40% per level, we move this down to 10% per level so that the mods are good, but not absolutely vital (steel fibre can stay the same. dual stat mod can move down to 7%; It's more expensive and only has five ranks) 

 

Several ways to do utility mods 

 

A: Remove power mods, leaving more space for utility mods

B: separate power mods onto their own thing mod board/ tech tree, leaving more space for utility mods. 

C: Have a separate mod board for utility mods, with their own point system and with/without their own auras. 

D: combination of C and A

E:Combination of C and B 

 

 

 

Weapons

 

 

Enemies have more set health, so weapons need to be somewhat comparable. I'm not saying we remove the power for players to make their weapons more powerful, I'm saying we need to get rid of  Instant-kill-everything automatics and rainbow elements. 

 

Stronger mods for reload speed, clip size and so on. Wiser use of multishot and pure damage and Elements that you don't just slap on

 

Weapon rules: One pure damage mod. Max of two elemental mods. Mods are seperated differently. 

 

Multishot

 

 

Something like this. A divide between multiple firings and firing multiple. 

 

Barrel diffusion- fire more projectiles. Use more ammo per multishot.

Lethal torrent- Fires more projectiles, faster rate of fire, uses more ammo

Split chamber- devides projectiles. Divides damage. Doesn't use more ammo

Hells chamber- Divides projectiles. Divides damage, faster rate of fire. doesn't use more ammo per multishot. 

Metal slugs - combines pellets into fewer more damaging pellets/bullets.  

Arrow rain - fires second arrow at enemies adjacent to enemy you're aiming at. 

 

 

 

Elements and physical.

 

 

Elements convert rather than add. For example a gun that does 100 damage per shot with 20% heat added to will do 80 physical damage and then 20 heat damage. (in the current system, that'd be 120 damage, which'd go to rediculous levels when you have four mods adding 360% elemental damage (and you can go higher) The physical damage is tiny in comparison  

 

Now as I've said before, weapons should be limited to two elemental types (usualy combining into one element) . No rainbow builds. (unless there's a mod that makes us randomly cycle elements with each bullet) 

 

Separate elements not by primary, secondary, melee and shotgun but rather by bullet, elemental ,melee 

On purely elemental weapons, elements convert damage to another type.  Physical damage mods add projectiles like shrapnel into the damage. Elements can convert up to 100% of damage. Physical can only convert less than half of the damage. 

 

On physical weapons, Elements can only convert less than half of the physical damage (not sure on precise numbers) 

 

On physical melee weapons, Elemental damage is just added, but not in huge numbers. 

 

 

Dual stat element mods (cicero, tethra, BG, whatever ice set pops up) have a higher elemental status chance, but pure element mods add a small amount of additional, non conversion elemental damage. 

 

 

+ damage mods .

 

 

The necessity of serration/hornet strike is just too damn high. Their importance is bad for new players, who have difficulty finding them and having multiple versions at different levels (would be fixed by them being dropped at different levels) but also new players don't have the credits to upgrade them. They're also too strong to survive like that in a reworked, better warframe experience in which nobody has a weapon so off the wall op that they can kill things without aiming. So as suggested before; Each loadout can only have one +damage mod, furthermore along with a weak + mods I'm also proposing that we have more powerful versions with detrimental effects (like the corrupted, but not found in the void) . 

 

This isn't something you can slap on. You'd need to think about it heavily and take a lot of feedback into what's balanced and what isn't. But it'd be better in the long run. 

Quality rounds: (less bonus damage in comparison to other mods) 

Magnum force: +Recoil

Hornet strike: - Firerate 

Heavy calibre: - clip size/max ammo 

Vicious spread: -accuracy 

Point blank: +damage falloff

Serration -punch through and projectile speed? (Non hitscan, non explosive weapons only?) 

 

 

Pressure point: (less bonus damage in comparison to other mods) 

heavy strike (from spoiled strike) - speed

Frenzied attacks: - Crit chance

 

 

On the whole this isn't an easy add and for the first month or so there'd be a more heated forum than there's ever been. A radical change like this is  going to be a $#*(@ to balance; But hey, in the long run, It'd be far easier to balance. It'd probably be the best thing for balance. It'd be better for newer players by a factor of yonks and It isn't a system that veteran players like myself, who have difficulty finding a game that's suited for the level of gear they're using, would have trouble with. 

 

 

Would greatly appreciate any and all feedback, even on the little details that you don't quite agree with 

Edited July 5, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[residente]

I also want a lot of stuff that is not going to happen :-(

[Incudem]

I'm sure Warframe is going to get some a lot of radical changes.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Incudem

[Phatose]

Mods is short for modules, not modifications.  I'd like to see some balance changes, but I do not want "Everything is a sidegrade".

 

I don't warframe to become just another generic 3rd persons shooter.  This amounts to "Gut the RPG portion of Warframe".  No thanks.  I'll go play Bayonetta, or God of War, or Devil May Cry when that's what I want.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Phatose

[KingIzek]

Oh hello Innocent_Flower!

 

I don't mean to keep homing in on you. I just usually browse the forums when I get bored to need some down time at work. 

 

But I notice an obscene amount of suggestions/improvement threads from you. Friend, we get the point, you're not happy with current mechanics and want to see improvements. Fine I get that.

 

But posting consistent thread on the same thing over and over again - that's getting a bit obsessive. On top of that all your posts are the same thing (maybe with a change up in the format). 

 

Relax man; you've made your point (time and time again). Cheer up buddy

[Sasquatchias]

Oh hello Innocent_Flower!

 

I don't mean to keep homing in on you. I just usually browse the forums when I get bored to need some down time at work. 

 

But I notice an obscene amount of suggestions/improvement threads from you. Friend, we get the point, you're not happy with current mechanics and want to see improvements. Fine I get that.

 

But posting consistent thread on the same thing over and over again - that's getting a bit obsessive. On top of that all your posts are the same thing (maybe with a change up in the format). 

 

Relax man; you've made your point (time and time again). Cheer up buddy

Personally I like the fact that he makes these threads simply because its forcing people (and the Devs) to actually look at them. Most times when a balance thread for Mods and stuff comes along it'll gain a bit of attention before being buried underneath the other balance topics (which normally would also be solved by the suggestions in the Mod thread) that inevitably spring up.

[Sasquatchias]

Mods is short for modules, not modifications.  I'd like to see some balance changes, but I do not want "Everything is a sidegrade".

 

I don't warframe to become just another generic 3rd persons shooter.  This amounts to "Gut the RPG portion of Warframe".  No thanks.  I'll go play Bayonetta, or God of War, or Devil May Cry when that's what I want.

I'd rather have all Mods be sidegrades than having a handful be the absolute best. 

 

Sure there would still be some that are just plain better, but as it is now Damage mods (specifically Serration and Hornet Strike) just give too much power and encourage builds with nothing but damage and multi-shot.

[Phatose]

I'd rather have all Mods be sidegrades than having a handful be the absolute best. 

 

Sure there would still be some that are just plain better, but as it is now Damage mods (specifically Serration and Hornet Strike) just give too much power and encourage builds with nothing but damage and multi-shot.

 

A genuine problem, but one that does not require massive changes to the system to fix.  Both can retain their value and current rankings with a mechanic change so they interact with other mods additively instead of multiplicatively

[Innocent_Flower]

Mods is short for modules, not modifications.  I'd like to see some balance changes, but I do not want "Everything is a sidegrade".

 

I don't warframe to become just another generic 3rd persons shooter.  This amounts to "Gut the RPG portion of Warframe".  No thanks.  I'll go play Bayonetta, or God of War, or Devil May Cry when that's what I want.

But we've got powers and parkour. That kinda distances it away from 'generic' right? Besides, there are plenty of rpg portions in other third person shooters. 

 

 

Also, note that this'd keep the rpg portion of the game. Players would still get stronger and S#&$. Only Now it's less of series of cliffs and more of a hill. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Iceyspy]

Considering the current situation at DE right now, I doubt we`ll ever see Update 15. So don`t get your hopes up too high, mate.

[Innocent_Flower]

Honestly anyone taking over DE would be great. The game at the moment is just to broken and no mechanics fully work. 

[Sasquatchias]

Honestly anyone taking over DE would be great. The game at the moment is just to broken and no mechanics fully work. 

That would be a terrible idea as of right now.

[azmyth1]

Start with reducing base damage and multishot to 10% per level, limited elementals to 2 per weapon and buffing all the other mods.  This would, of course, require a rescaling of enemy HP, but I think nearly everyone agrees they scale too quickly at high levels anyway.

[CBAROG]

Good idea.