Tali Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 saryn hah total over make of skills especially first, fourth,and thirdthen you are not using her correct then, only her contagion needs something done. Have you ever tried putting fleeting expertise on her, it work wonders :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nachino Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Rhino is an easy to use and good frame, but he is not even close to the top. Banshee on the other hand, opposite to what you said, is very useful in high levels and so is Trinity. Rhino is probably the best for early game probably and is very good throughout the whole starchart nodes (Generally), but he is not as useful for Defense, Mobile Defense, Survival, Stealth (Soloing missions usually), etc as other frames are. So he is great for Solo missions and not much else really. If you play with other people, 2 frames will be significantly superior and much more useful. BTW why is there so much people saying Nyx needs to get looked at? I think she is great as it is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire_Ashes Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 OP, this game needs a "tank" frame for diversity. Rhino skin is no longer the GOD it used to be. It will only take you so far. Most people play Rhino Prime because they like the layed back lifestyle and if it WAS nerfed they would probably leave WF. Rhino is a great frame, YES but other frames ARE better. (Putting on Flak Jacket) Loki, Nova, Excalibro, Trinity, Volt, Nyx and Banshee. I do play rhino prime but not as much as my love Ember <3. A message to the community as a whole - Now that Loki's Invisibility has been balanced all of the frames are fairly balanced. They cater to all of people playstyles please stop calling for nerfs and throwing this balance out of whack. Please, also I am tired of these threads there are SO many of them and it is not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 This thread gave me cancer Ive never heard such trash talk Trinity can easily out tank rhino literally she tanks circles around him Shes a weapon dependent frame and can also easily be modded out to out damage a rhino Saryn is actually a great tank and puts out more 4 damage than rhino along with her 1 (which kinda scales with enemy level) cutting the HP of enemies in half Her stun is half the time of rhinos for twice the damage as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanj66 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 From start I really like Rhino he's not my favourite frame but really he has too much love form DE... Why I think so ? First of all rhino has everything: 1)Mobility(prime version adds speed, helmet adds speed ,1 skill charge mobility too) 2)Damage (4 skill tears through lvl 40-50 lol and even in late game it is beast , also 3 skill adds a very good chunk of dmg) 3) Defence (2 skill) 4) AoE (4 skill) So, basically Rhino has everything and is basically the best frame (And it's the reason why everyone play him). While other frames such as Saryn (which is not popular at all, and doesn't have dmg or mobility..) And trinity which is a support ,which needs to be totally over made.. But really DE you didn't even put the immortal skin on her for sale while all others (old frames) have wtf ? Another example is Ember: 1)Normal damage (4skill, 2 skill, 1 skill) 2) NO DEFENCE!!!! (maybe only the 2 skill stun lol) 3) Mobility kinda ok 4) AoE (4 skill..is okey) Now we take another frame Banshee: 1)Mobility 2) NO DEFENCE 3)NO DAMAGE 4) GOOD AoE. But the problem with her is that you cant even solo or survive long with her cause she doesn't have any defence at all... Sorry, for my English (if any mistakes). But I just want to know your thoughts ,about how Rhino is op and if he needs some kind of nerf (or something) rhino is not anywhere near op, trinity is still way better a tank and loki laughs at rhino even with the changes to invis, rhino unlike all these skills is a non scalabe frame his skills are all based on a static value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nachino Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 rhino is not anywhere near op, trinity is still way better a tank and loki laughs at rhino even with the changes to invis, rhino unlike all these skills is a non scalabe frame his skills are all based on a static value. Can anyone link me to the changes to loki? i don`t know whatthey were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanj66 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Okay ,but in 60 min he will out damage you because that third skill really adds a lot of dmg.. So rhino is one of those frames who has everything he can be tank support and even damage dealer... this is not true, there are frames that can still out damage him and you forgot to factor in that its a team buff not a solo buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanj66 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Can anyone link me to the changes to loki? i don`t know whatthey were. 13.8.1 Unlisted change: Enemies now have basic awareness on contact or sound of invisible units, and will investigate last known position of this sound/contact. There are a number of threads bringing up issues/discussions with this that are being read and relayed, thank you for posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nachino Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) 13.8.1 Unlisted change: Enemies now have basic awareness on contact or sound of invisible units, and will investigate last known position of this sound/contact. There are a number of threads bringing up issues/discussions with this that are being read and relayed, thank you for posting! Thanks! It is actually very good in defence He might be good, but there are a lot of frames which are better. Rhino is good for everything, but not even close to best at those things. You could have 4 Rhinos and still 1 Banshee/Nova/Volt(Maybe not Volt) would be better for dealing damage.. You could have 4 Rhinos and still 1 Frost/Excalibur/Loki/Nyx would be better to defend or survive. I could give more examples but i think i made my point. Edited July 4, 2014 by Nachino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Thanks! He might be good, but there are a lot of frames which are better. Rhino is good for everything, but not even close to best at those things. You could have 4 Rhinos and still 1 Banshee/Nova/Volt(Maybe not Volt) would be better for dealing damage.. You could have 4 Rhinos and still 1 Frost/Excalibur/Loki/Nyx would be better to defend or survive. I could give more examples but i think i made my point. Idk about that one now 4 Rhino stomps and rhino roars shooting around your damage and CC along with tankiness are gonna be kinda ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXHunterzzzXx Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Yeah totally agree rhino is ridicilous frame.. And banshee lol her ult doesnt stagger drones so they just fly to you and kill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinityPrime Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Does feel like Trinity isn't getting enough love. I've been waiting for her immortal skin ever since I found out immortal skins existed. I've very rarely ever seen someone using Trinity who wasn't leveling the frame. Then there's how I always get vexed everytime some noob visits region and goes: "Trinity is dead", "finally got that worthless frame to 30 so i can get rid of it", and the rare can't tell if stupid or trolling: "Oberon and Nekros are better healers" [size=1]<-- seriously F*** those scrubs[/size] :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheArchAngel Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) I prefer Frost over Rhino, only used Rhino Prime occasionally....Most instances I use Frost Prime, from casual play to high-level farmingStealth it's Loki Prime (Though if Ash ever gets a prime I'll use both :P )And when it comes to infested, i can always count on Valkyr, Ember, and Vauban(Bastille weee~) Edited July 4, 2014 by TheArchAngel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Then there's how I always get vexed everytime some noob visits region and goes: "Trinity is dead", "finally got that worthless frame to 30 so i can get rid of it", and the rare can't tell if stupid or trolling: "Oberon and Nekros are better healers" <-- seriously F*** those scrubs I am sorta one of those scrubs. I believe that Oberon can be a more helpful healer SOMETIMES. Mainly because it doesn't require you to be shooting at a target, you don't need to direct your focus. A well-modded Oberon can heal for a buttload without any effort on anyone's part. That being said, Oberon isn't made for healing and giving energy, so a top-tier Trinity will always do that better than a top-tier Oberon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Yeah totally agree rhino is ridicilous frame.. And banshee lol her ult doesnt stagger drones so they just fly to you and kill Um Drones shoot right over me every time i use her ult Literally nothing to worry about there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nachino Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Idk about that one now 4 Rhino stomps and rhino roars shooting around your damage and CC along with tankiness are gonna be kinda ridiculous I know it`s ridicoulous but the idea was to show that other frames can do what he does much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I know it`s ridicoulous but the idea was to show that other frames can do what he does much better. But they dont have it all Other frames lack something he has as well I dislike when people make it seem like hes just not useful as a jack of all trades He can effectively fill many holes in a team and adjust to a situation that other frames may not be able to adjust to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarille Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I sort of thought this thread was going to be complaining about how Rhino not only has a Prime (Complete with different Iron Skin colour) but also an Immortal Skin and the new Rubedo skin... On Topic: Rhino is a jack of all trades, master of none. At base, he's one of the slower frames in the game. This can be made up for with his Prime (Which, seems to be a running theme with new Primes - A slight statistical advantage over the regular one) - Just the Prime makes him average speed rather than slow. The Arcane Vanguard Helm is what makes him fast, but that's a limited item what with it no longer attainable and only for people who have had it for a while or can trade for it. His #1 does provide him with some mobility however, though it's only allows movement forwards unlike Super Jump, Rip Line and Tail Wind that allow movement vertically (Which provides huge benefit especially when combined with Coptering that already provides Charge-like horizontal movement) He provides a damage boost with his #3 and can deal damage with his #4. The damage boost isn't as strong as Banshee's but is decent and affects the whole team. His #4 can do damage but it only deals full damage (I.E. Damage on par with other Frames #4's) in a smaller area than it affects things in, it also cannot be spammed like other #4's due to not being usable when enemies are being CC'd by it. He has defence via Iron Skin (Makes him one of the tankier frames - Not the tankiest, both Valkyr and Trinity outperform him in that aspect and arguably Frost can become rather tanky with Snowglobe spam) and also via the CC from Rhino Stomp. He doesn't excel in any particular area (Aside from speed due to Vanguard Helmet) but he's capable in various areas. Meanwhile your comparisons in your OP: Saryn has the capability of doing significantly more damage than Rhino (Viral procs from her #1 lowering health by 50% and her #4 can deal more damage than Rhino's #4 in it's full radius and can be spammed) Trinity can be tankier than Rhino, can allow the team to do more damage than Rhino (50% damage boost vs ability spam afforded by Energy Vampire) and can make the entire team tankier via Blessing. She's not as offensive as Rhino, but she's very strong as a support or solo frame. Ember has more damage output than Rhino, with her #2 being a huge damage increase - Even to weapons if you set up to have Heat damage on your weapons. Her #1 is a spammable AoE attack (Her #4 really isn't... The blasts only hit single targets...) allowing her to do significant AoE damage. Banshee allows for the highest team damage amplification of any frame. That up to 1145% damage amplification is pretty huge, she also has good AoE CC via her #1 and her #4 (Also, her #3 can provide short duration AoE stuns) Every frame has their strengths and weaknesses - Rhino's strength is that he's versatile. His weakness is he's outperformed at each of his roles by another frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXHunterzzzXx Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 I sort of thought this thread was going to be complaining about how Rhino not only has a Prime (Complete with different Iron Skin colour) but also an Immortal Skin and the new Rubedo skin... On Topic: Rhino is a jack of all trades, master of none. At base, he's one of the slower frames in the game. This can be made up for with his Prime (Which, seems to be a running theme with new Primes - A slight statistical advantage over the regular one) - Just the Prime makes him average speed rather than slow. The Arcane Vanguard Helm is what makes him fast, but that's a limited item what with it no longer attainable and only for people who have had it for a while or can trade for it. His #1 does provide him with some mobility however, though it's only allows movement forwards unlike Super Jump, Rip Line and Tail Wind that allow movement vertically (Which provides huge benefit especially when combined with Coptering that already provides Charge-like horizontal movement) He provides a damage boost with his #3 and can deal damage with his #4. The damage boost isn't as strong as Banshee's but is decent and affects the whole team. His #4 can do damage but it only deals full damage (I.E. Damage on par with other Frames #4's) in a smaller area than it affects things in, it also cannot be spammed like other #4's due to not being usable when enemies are being CC'd by it. He has defence via Iron Skin (Makes him one of the tankier frames - Not the tankiest, both Valkyr and Trinity outperform him in that aspect and arguably Frost can become rather tanky with Snowglobe spam) and also via the CC from Rhino Stomp. He doesn't excel in any particular area (Aside from speed due to Vanguard Helmet) but he's capable in various areas. Meanwhile your comparisons in your OP: Saryn has the capability of doing significantly more damage than Rhino (Viral procs from her #1 lowering health by 50% and her #4 can deal more damage than Rhino's #4 in it's full radius and can be spammed) Trinity can be tankier than Rhino, can allow the team to do more damage than Rhino (50% damage boost vs ability spam afforded by Energy Vampire) and can make the entire team tankier via Blessing. She's not as offensive as Rhino, but she's very strong as a support or solo frame. Ember has more damage output than Rhino, with her #2 being a huge damage increase - Even to weapons if you set up to have Heat damage on your weapons. Her #1 is a spammable AoE attack (Her #4 really isn't... The blasts only hit single targets...) allowing her to do significant AoE damage. Banshee allows for the highest team damage amplification of any frame. That up to 1145% damage amplification is pretty huge, she also has good AoE CC via her #1 and her #4 (Also, her #3 can provide short duration AoE stuns) Every frame has their strengths and weaknesses - Rhino's strength is that he's versatile. His weakness is he's outperformed at each of his roles by another frame. 1) Saryn is worse then Rhino in late game (because her damage doesnt do anything late game while rhino has AoE) 2)Banshee lol....I dont know i put max shield hp armor and she is still one shoted she is good for team but she dies to fast 3) I see you dont know much about ember... Her second skill has a 1 second stun, and the AoE ult has a very tiny percent of stun go check wiki))) 4)Rhino is tanky then valkyr due t the face that he is very mobile with his helmet and prime part) He simply puts iron skin and just jumps all around the map meaning that half of those bullets miss him... In conclusion, you said very tiny facts because youre the player who plays rhino and tipically doesnt want him to be nerfed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nachino Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) 1) Saryn is worse then Rhino in late game (because her damage doesnt do anything late game while rhino has AoE) 2)Banshee lol....I dont know i put max shield hp armor and she is still one shoted she is good for team but she dies to fast 3) I see you dont know much about ember... Her second skill has a 1 second stun, and the AoE ult has a very tiny percent of stun go check wiki))) 4)Rhino is tanky then valkyr due t the face that he is very mobile with his helmet and prime part) He simply puts iron skin and just jumps all around the map meaning that half of those bullets miss him... In conclusion, you said very tiny facts because youre the player who plays rhino and tipically doesnt want him to be nerfed.... Or you are the one that doesn`t know how to play these frames, or you are trolling. Tarille gave a very good and complete response and you just say he is wrong. 1) I don`t really know much about Saryn, but as Tarille said, her 1# deals Viral. Viral is hundreds of times better than Rhino`s 3# DMG Buff + 4# AoE 2) Banshee dies fast? That`s her weakness. She is not meant to Solo missions either so your response on that doesn`t make sense, Nova would be better than Banshee IF you are going to Solo. 3) I think you are the one who doesn`t know how to use Ember, Tarille never said her 2# was good to stun enemies, Tarille said it was good to amplify damage, which it is. Her 4# by itself deals more damage and it`s significantly increased with her 2#. 4) Rhino tankier than Valkyr? are you serious? I`m not even going to respond to that. Edited July 4, 2014 by Nachino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarille Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) 1) Saryn is worse then Rhino in late game (because her damage doesnt do anything late game while rhino has AoE) Saryn does more damage than Rhino. Her #1 does Viral procs, with reduce a targets health by 50% regardless of level or armour. Meanwhile Rhino's damage buff gets worse and worse as levels increase due to inflation of health pools and inflation of armour levels. Rhino has AoE you say? But his does less damage than Saryn's #4, his can't be spammed unlike Saryn's and with a good gun Saryn's #1 can also hit AoE (Repeatedly - It's possible to continuously pop spores and keep spreading them to cover a huge area, though not so much at low levels but that's when Miasma spamming is super effective) 2)Banshee lol....I dont know i put max shield hp armor and she is still one shoted she is good for team but she dies to fast 4)Rhino is tanky then valkyr due t the face that he is very mobile with his helmet and prime part) He simply puts iron skin and just jumps all around the map meaning that half of those bullets miss him... Wow... You say "Banshee isn't tanky because I put health and shield mods on and get one shotted" and also say "Rhino is tanky because he just moves fast and doesn't get hit" Which is it? It's a double standard to say one frame is tankier because his mobility and then say another is not tanky because they can't face tank damage. Considering that Banshee is faster than even Rhino Prime as long as an Arcane Vanguard Helmet isn't being utilized - Which considering not everyone has access to it, it should not be a balancing point. Banshee is no squishier than most other frames, she has average health and shields and various CC effects that prevent enemies from attacking her or her allies. 3) I see you dont know much about ember... Her second skill has a 1 second stun, and the AoE ult has a very tiny percent of stun go check wiki))) I don't need to go check the wiki, I've played Ember a fair amount. I know how her skills work - Her #1 does significant AoE damage and has a 100% fire proc chance on direct hit (Meaning targets are stunned and take damage over time) Her #2 does an AoE stun (Less effective online because of host issues) which when solo can last up to 10 seconds on some targets (I know, I've used it a lot. There have been times where it was literally the only ability I used on a level 5 frame to go through T3 missions with Ember solo) Her #4 is very lackluster, it only strikes a single target at a time - I've been dissapointed by this skill when using it in the Orokin Derelict where infested swarm and bunch up close together, only to have single targets take damage from the explosions and the explosions only occur under a single target at a time (Though in very rapid succession) Though I don't see how the CC capabilities are relevant to what I mentioned about her being able to out damage Rhino (Via her #2 boosting up the damage of heat damage on weapons and her abilities by more than 500%, combined with spammable AoE from her #1) In conclusion, you said very tiny facts because youre the player who plays rhino and tipically doesnt want him to be nerfed.... I don't play Rhino. In fact I sold my Rhino the second I played Saryn for the first time. Rhino bored me, he just didn't excel at anything. Meanwhile Saryn was almost as tanky (Similar stats, just doesn't have Iron Skin), had better AoE potential, had a more effective late game damage boost (Viral procs) and had similar mobility (Via a good coptering weapon) Edited July 4, 2014 by Tarille Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Saryn does more damage than Rhino. Her #1 does Viral procs, with reduce a targets health by 50% regardless of level or armour. Meanwhile Rhino's damage buff gets worse and worse as levels increase due to inflation of health pools and inflation of armour levels IIRC Roar increases damage from all sources That includes any damages that scale Synergy with nova and mag can get pretty darn high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXHunterzzzXx Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 IIRC Roar increases damage from all sources That includes any damages that scale Synergy with nova and mag can get pretty darn high totally agree rhino can buff the teams dmg )) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 totally agree rhino can buff the teams dmg )) Valkyr can also increase the team's DPS while also debuffing enemies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Valkyr can also increase the team's DPS while also debuffing enemies Valkyr + Snowglobe is lustful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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