Grineer Damage Combo

[SubjectV]

Okay, I understand the basics of damage 2.0. What I am about to ask is highly technical, so I need some math junkies. 

 

So I know for Grineer, the optimal damage mod to use is easily Radiation, my question is what is the optimal elemental damage setup after radiation. 

 

Possible options

 

A) 2 toxin mods + bane

B) 1 toxin+1 cold + bane

C) 2 toxin + 1 cold

 

I know viral are 75% more effective against cloned flesh, but that will be reduced by armor, which increase as grineer units level get's higher. Toxin are very effect against ferrite, so intuitively it would be good as a secondary element against weaker ferrite armor unit. I also know that Toxin do not increase damage directly but ignore a percentage of armor and the effect will scale well as armor rating increase.

 

Guess my question is:

 

Of the 3 options listed above, which one will be optimal at different level range? at which point effectiveness of viral start to drop off. 

[Arenzo4]

I think option B would be best

[VKhaun]

What else is on your weapon?

Usually not that many slots left open with builds anymore.

 

Damage, Multishot, corrupted damage, 90% fire, 90% electric is already 5/8 and all expensive. Fire rate will be better DPS than any additional elemental or bane mods at that point, punch-through is better DPS than adding anything else if you can hit two targets or fully hit a target behind partial cover. Wildfire / blaze are obvious for a radiation gun IMO.

 

Toxic doesn't have any special armor interactions, unless you just mean the resist against ferrite like radiation vs alloy. Corrosive reduces armor, but only on a proc. I do not know the math behind that, but only a few weapons are capable of Corrosive + Radiation because they share electric as a component. To do both the weapon must have one or the other as a base damage type to begin with.

Edited July 4, 2014 by VKhaun

[SubjectV]

What else is on your weapon?

Usually not that many slots left open with builds anymore.

 

Damage, Multishot, corrupted damage, 90% fire, 90% electric is already 5/8 and all expensive. Fire rate will be better DPS than any additional elemental or bane mods at that point, punch-through is better DPS than adding anything else if you can hit two targets or fully hit a target behind partial cover. Wildfire / blaze are obvious for a radiation gun IMO.

 

Toxic doesn't have any special armor interactions, unless you just mean the resist against ferrite like radiation vs alloy. Corrosive reduces armor, but only on a proc. I do not know the math behind that, but only a few weapons are capable of Corrosive + Radiation because they share electric as a component. To do both the weapon must have one or the other as a base damage type to begin with.

 

Well I did not use corrupted damage mod for some weapon because of accuracy loss. Toxin do in fact do bonus against ferrite armor so it sorta complements radiation against alloy. 

 

When I say about armor, I am not talking about the corrosive proc. How radiation and toxin interact armor is that they ignore a percentage of their respective armor type. 

 

Say you have 1000 toxin damage and you are shooting a grineer lancer with 100 ferrite armor. That 1000 toxin damage will ignore 25% of that 300 armor as if you are shooting against a grineer lancer with 75 ferrite armor. I deducted this because on the wiki, finisher damage is described as armor ignore and bypass completely, and on the damage chart, finisher damage is indicated to have 100% bonus against ally and ferrite, which are the only two armor types in the game. 

[CelticMoss]

Best is Rad + cold

[Darzk]

Option B is best.

 

No matter the enemy armor, Toxin never *quite* catches up to Viral damage. At very high armor levels it will be almost equal, % for %, against Ferrite, but you can get a higher % of Viral than pure Toxin, and the added damage viral adds against Alloy makes it better as well.

 

Edit: Math

Viral = 1.75 * (1+300 / armor)  OR 1.75 * 300/(300+armor)

Toxin = 1.25 * (1+300 / (0.75*armor)) OR 1.25 * 300/(300+(0.75*armor))

 

An example.

A level 50ish Gunner has around 2300 armor, iirc.

Viral = 1.75*300/2600 = 20.19% damage

Toxin = 1.25*300/2025 = 18.52% damage

 

If you only have 2 slots available after installing Rad, you could use either Viral or Cold/Bane, depending on if you wanted more damage against Alloy or a more even distribution. Toxin and Bane would work as well, but fits neither niche - it would do less than viral against Ferrite, and less than cold+bane against Alloy.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Darzk

[SubjectV]

Option B is best.

 

No matter the enemy armor, Toxin never *quite* catches up to Viral damage. At very high armor levels it will be almost equal, % for %, against Ferrite, but you can get a higher % of Viral than pure Toxin, and the added damage viral adds against Alloy makes it better as well.

 

Edit: Math

Viral = 1.75 * (1+300 / armor)  OR 1.75 * 300/(300+armor)

Toxin = 1.25 * (1+300 / (0.75*armor)) OR 1.25 * 300/(300+(0.75*armor))

 

An example.

A level 50ish Gunner has around 2300 armor, iirc.

Viral = 1.75*300/2600 = 20.19% damage

Toxin = 1.25*300/2025 = 18.52% damage

 

If you only have 2 slots available after installing Rad, you could use either Viral or Cold/Bane, depending on if you wanted more damage against Alloy or a more even distribution. Toxin and Bane would work as well, but fits neither niche - it would do less than viral against Ferrite, and less than cold+bane against Alloy.

Thanks man, exactly what I need.