grillv20 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) How? Answering to OP that his question/proposition is "bullsh*t", generally whole answer was disrespectful to OP and people who supported this thread. Pretty much, my face was red with anger when I heard his response. I can't believe somebody would act so childish in front of their players. He didn't even bother to acknowledge the entire topic that he had put out there regardless of what he felt was rude or not. ~_~ Basically Steve's response was "we have all these mods that are optional and there are so many combinations. When in reality we have 6 slots to go off of if we're using each of our Warframe abilities. 5 Mods slots if you're like every single other player in the game using Redirection. Next comes FLOW. Another mod that every single person will be using. Which leaves us with 4 mod slots >_> you're going to sit there on stream and have a temper tantrum Steve and say that this is really the level of customization you're behind? Really? Oh, ok well let me point out for you there that you also have a broken aura system overflowing with worthless crap mods that nobody would ever think in a billion years to use. Oh, how many people bring. TL;DR 10 mod slots. -4 mod slots for abilities = 6 mod slots -2 slots reserved for the mandatory must have mods Baseline of mods to work with = 4 Any person with common sense that isn't doing this is knowingly making the game harder on themselves without any reason.. I am absolutely beyond words about this. I simply can not believe that he would try to even put the mod system next to such a system. Example of Warframe's super epic mod customization system. Defended so valiantly on stream today. Take note of the absence of bandaid mods. <_> http://i.imgur.com/Rl6FTbd.jpg The system that system that warframe's mod system was compared to. Its totally similar btw let me tell ya. http://i.imgur.com/8QpVyIw.jpg Edited July 4, 2014 by grillv20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenshuYuusha Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) Ahem... psychologically I think the standard player would look at the second image and think "....so are those mandatory mods hard to find?":v Edited July 4, 2014 by TenshuYuusha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycomet Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Wow you must love nyx... ************ = x.x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grillv20 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Ahem... psychologically I think the standard player would look at the second image and think "....so are those mandatory mods hard to find?" :v The game gives you redirection starting out. Flow on the other hand can take a little bit to farm if you aren't lucky and you don't know where to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grillv20 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Wow you must love nyx... ************ = x.x she was my baby before the aura mod system got changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MoriartyHaaaiii Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 If you're trying to min/max all 4 abilities (leaving you room for only 4 modifers), you're doing this entire game wrong. The point of the system is that there are give-and-takes, and you have the freedom to choose what your curent loadout will be good at. The improved loadout UI in U14 should address most of your problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trst Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Sorry but I had to disagree with the necessary mods here. I've not used redirection in months and very rarely do I use Flow. But yes, having four slots dedicated to abilities is a slight hindrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipp-vas-Xerinae Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I agree with you OP... You know i was mad too but i'm not now, why? If that's DE approach to feedback then i don't give a dan i will not support someone with that attitude, DE lately likes to shoot in their foot, such a shame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenshuYuusha Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 The game gives you redirection starting out. Flow on the other hand can take a little bit to farm if you aren't lucky and you don't know where to get it. Then the standard player would say "Thanks... no thanks on the gigantic, convoluted skill... planet there though, I'll take the mod system, see ya!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnat6 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I disagree with you on flow being mandatory I think streamline is better but other than that I agree with your post completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Lord_Gremlin Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) That thread was bullS#&$ actually. I suddenly gained some respect for this developer. And I had very little before. There is build diversity. Would be better if crucial mods like Shield Flux were common, but hey. P.S. Flow one of absolutely useless mods. In fact, using flow shows that you still can't make a half-decent build. Edited July 4, 2014 by (PS4)Lord_Gremlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MoriartyHaaaiii Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) Sorry but I had to disagree with the necessary mods here. I've not used redirection in months and very rarely do I use Flow. But yes, having four slots dedicated to abilities is a slight hindrance. Glad I didnt have to post this. Vitality >> redirection in almost every scenario. Base shields are often plenty to keep you alive if you know how to dodge/cover even a little bit. Health is far more precious and can be directly damaged, regardless of your redirection, and when it runs out, you die. But then again, the reason we can have this dicussion about mod choice is because the current system works as intended for a variety of viable builds. /thread Edited July 4, 2014 by (PS4)MoriartyHaaaiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grillv20 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 If you're trying to min/max all 4 abilities (leaving you room for only 4 modifers), you're doing this entire game wrong. The point of the system is that there are give-and-takes, and you have the freedom to choose what your curent loadout will be good at. The improved loadout UI in U14 should address most of your problems. They said they're giving different tiers of the same mods. Unless they're making it so I can change polarities for whatever I'm doing as long as I'm forma'd then I don't see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evers Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Why the hell do you use pwoer strength mods on your nyx? Thats just so wrong. You go for energy effiancy and range for absorb build and duration and range for chaos build with nyx but never powerstrength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MoriartyHaaaiii Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Why the hell do you use pwoer strength mods on your nyx? Thats just so wrong. You go for energy effiancy and range for absorb build and duration and range for chaos build with nyx but never powerstrength. I think this person hasn't played since the changes to nyx were toggleable. Either that or they play a very wonky solo style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garuger Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) i agree 100% with steve he did correctly and called BS hope he respopnds more like that BECAUSE YOU DESERVE IT and i am tired to see continues whinning posts dont like it ? LEAVE no one forces you to play Edited July 4, 2014 by Garuger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostXeno Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) Do you really think flow is that important? while I somewhat agree redirection is pretty good but not even half of my warframe use that one. The one that I use on almost all my frames are fleeting expertise and streamline. There is an amount of customization to the mod system that you don't see.While I do agree that the mods should be split up into categories in a way that only certain mods can be put up in certain slots:ex. 4 slots for skills only. 4 slots for V polarity only 4 slots for - polarity only and so onSteve could have addressed the player feedback a bit more professionally but He can still go back to it, doing on the dev stream is a bit more difficult to respond to it. Should be put into writing. Edited July 4, 2014 by FrostXeno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sev7n Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Redirection and flow are just crutches for players. If you have to use them your just limiting yourself from being able to create a diverse build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Pretty much, my face was red with anger when I heard his response. I can't believe somebody would act so childish in front of their players. He didn't even bother to acknowledge the entire topic that he had put out there regardless of what he felt was rude or not. ~_~ Basically Steve's response was "we have all these mods that are optional and there are so many combinations. When in reality we have 6 slots to go off of if we're using each of our Warframe abilities. 5 Mods slots if you're like every single other player in the game using Redirection. Next comes FLOW. Another mod that every single person will be using. Which leaves us with 4 mod slots >_> you're going to sit there on stream and have a temper tantrum Steve and say that this is really the level of customization you're behind? Really? Oh, ok well let me point out for you there that you also have a broken aura system overflowing with worthless crap mods that nobody would ever think in a billion years to use. Oh, how many people bring. TL;DR 10 mod slots. -4 mod slots for abilities = 6 mod slots -2 slots reserved for the mandatory must have mods Baseline of mods to work with = 4 Any person with common sense that isn't doing this is knowingly making the game harder on themselves without any reason.. I am absolutely beyond words about this. I simply can not believe that he would try to even put the mod system next to such a system. Example of Warframe's super epic mod customization system. Defended so valiantly on stream today. Take note of the absence of bandaid mods. <_> http://i.imgur.com/Rl6FTbd.jpg The system that system that warframe's mod system was compared to. Its totally similar btw let me tell ya. http://i.imgur.com/8QpVyIw.jpg I think the biggest problem is that Rebecca kinda read the post wrong. The Great Zamobni's point was that there are a slew of mods to use, yet not enough mods to use them. I remember reading that thread, and it was nothing like what Steve took it to be. I do think he could have said it better, but I agree with Steve's point of Loot and Skill working together; however someone misinterpreted The Great Zamboni and made it sound like Zamboni was saying that loot didn't matter - but that wasn't his point. Zamboni's point was that loot -does- matter, however we are not given enough space to use all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grillv20 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 I think the biggest problem is that Rebecca kinda read the post wrong. The Great Zamobni's point was that there are a slew of mods to use, yet not enough mods to use them. I remember reading that thread, and it was nothing like what Steve took it to be. I do think he could have said it better, but I agree with Steve's point of Loot and Skill working together; however someone misinterpreted The Great Zamboni and made it sound like Zamboni was saying that loot didn't matter - but that wasn't his point. Zamboni's point was that loot -does- matter, however we are not given enough space to use all of it. Well, the thing was is that she didn't even get to touch on the entire message that the thread brought before Steve flew into a tantrum and shut her down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 i agree 100% with steve he did correctly and called BS hope he respopnds more like that BECAUSE YOU DESERVE IT and i am tired to see continues whinning posts dont like it ? LEAVE no one forces you to play It's called feedback. And it's no good for any game to have people leave (unless they are cheaters). However: you could either leave the threads that annoy you or post some arguments instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentCircle Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) 5 Mods slots if you're like every single other player in the game using Redirection. Next comes FLOW. Another mod that every single person will be using. Every single person - 1. Redirection: It depends on the frame which defensive mod is more useful. Flow: don't use it at all. efficiency beats max. energy every time. Edited July 4, 2014 by SilentCircle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Bobtm0 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 While I wouldn't say the mod system is perfect, I greatly prefer it to the standard "skill tree" type systems that offer a lot less build variety than people think. The upcoming changes will not change the core system, that much is certain though so nobody should be saying that. There are a handful or so of mods that are never worth using in the current system, however there are many more usable mods than not-usable ones by a drastic degree. The mod system, as it is, allows for a fair bit of freedom in how you operate a given frame really. The ability mods being optional is actually something I really dig as it further pertains to that build freedom. Redirection is, by no means, a necessary mod in any feasible way, nor is Flow. That's not to say that every mod is good. Mods like Intruder, Master Thief, Handspring, and all the resistance mods need something done to them as they're never an option. But that leaves viability with practically every other mod in the game. If you aren't digging your heels in and going into the depths of the endless mods you can do all kinds of crazy builds and still operate with a lot of efficiency at killing things. If you want to run with all four of your frame abilities, you sacrifice overall passive diversity as well as your chance at high individual skill synergy due to conflicts that are both created by available space and Corrupted mods. You can skip on slotting any and all survivability mods if you're sure of yourself in terms of mobility and CC, allowing for more space for utility type things. You can just tank up defensive/passive mods and remove all powers and run around being really fast and practically invulnerable. Like I said, the system isn't without flaws, but at its core it's an interesting alternative to the trees used everywhere else. Honestly, the way that thread in question was written was highly disrespectful in the way it described things. So the response was well warranted in my mind. The post pretty much insulted the system we have now completely right out of the gate. All in all, frame related mods are in a pretty reasonable place in terms of their balance in accordance to the number of usable mods to not usable ones. Weapons on the other hand are all out of whack when you have very clear outliers with no choice in the matter. Like how the I/P/S mods are blaringly worthless on Primaries, and how all of the standard +Status Chance mods still haven't been properly updated since Damage 2.0. But this is about Warframe mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitzbach Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I actually find the game to have more than enough variety in the build. I mean, just look at Oberon or Excal. You already have 2 slots ready to be forma'd because you don't need two of their skills, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garuger Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 It's called feedback. And it's no good for any game to have people leave (unless they are cheaters). However: you could either leave the threads that annoy you or post some arguments instead. I cant because it is constantly burtied by the likes of these posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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