How Do You Feel About De Making Sweeping Changes To The Game?

[Kraosdada]

"DE stated Cicero mods were exclusive, so they can't re-release them or I'll sue them"

From what i remember, the ONLY things that are truly exclusive are Lato and Braton Vandals and the Founder Primes, and i doubt even those will remain that way forever, all other things, even Prime Access exclusives, can come back in some way.

i have always dissagreed with people who feels entitled to something, even if that something is just virtual information.

[GlamourChariot]

Rather than removing serration, I'd prefer they take the idea of mod qualities to the extreme.  Add rng qualities, let us build our own mods.  Instead of trying to confine damage options to a skill tree, let us go to even more ridiculous levels.  That's what most dungeon crawlers are all about.  Trying to compress modding options is always going to run into problems with scaling enemies.  It's easier and more fun to just let everything be OP.

 

The best short term solution though is to make every weapon special with something other than pure damage.  The mutalist quanta is a good example,but there are are plenty of simpler ways that weapons can be made special with something other than just damage differences.  Ex let one of the bows have an ability to pin an enemy to the floor even if it doesn't kill them.  Another could have stronger knockback on impact procs etc. etc.

 

Go back to BL:R, old man.

 

 

 

Huge changes can be good or bad.

 

For instance, removing the skill trees was good because they weren't well thought out enough to be a core feature of the game.

 

Mods 2.0 was bad because it solved nothing about the bad skill trees while adding even more issues of its own.

 

 

 

Really I'd prefer they iterate a lot of broken concepts that are barely there to find out what works rather than committing overly to one thing that might fail, then building on the rough concept that worked into something the game can actually work with in the long run.

 

But then people would complain even though it's a beta and we're MEANT to be building the game still.

[Seox]

I recognize that many players take a bigger picture stance and would like to simply see the removal of some of these items independent of consequences. I hope that I can shed some light on the other side here.

 

Several people here have stated that "we signed a EULA that says we must accept all changes that they make." 

 

Being helpless to stop changes and liking them are not the same thing. Strongarming players with the EULA does not a happy and trusting playerbase make. While some of us may have felt comfortable altruistically sacrificing our helmets and serrations, not all of us would. It's important to remember that many players spent real money to get these helmets or purchase serration, and that by taking the road that's proposed here, those players would lose that money for nothing or for compensation that they did not pay for.

 

Instead, DE recognizes that by pulling the plug on incoming helmets, the old ones remain in circulation but can only decrease in number as players quit, are banned, or turn their statted helmets statless. Furthermore, the density of players who own these items will decrease as new players enter the game. The effects of these items on the game will thus be negligible given time, and noone feels slighted by DE's actions.

 

I think that we're very lucky to have game devs who are so sensitive to the concerns and issues of both sides, and it is the elegance of difficult decisions like this that make DE who they are.

[Sasquatchias]

In general I'm completely fine about Developers making sweeping changes so long as they warn players ahead of time and go a bit in-depth about what they're doing. 

 

Now if I feel any specific change was bad or good is another story.

[Aggh]

Go back to BL:R, old man.

Rank 7 noop shush :|

Edited July 5, 2014 by Aggh

[011100110110000101101101]

Warframe IS in beta, as much as many of us forget that, it doesn't change the fact that it is a beta.  This is the best time to change the game, and I am perfectly fine with it.

[Seox]

Warframe IS in beta, as much as many of us forget that, it doesn't change the fact that it is a beta.  This is the best time to change the game, and I am perfectly fine with it.

 

I'm not so sure that most players object to change - I think it's more about how changes are carried out.

[--Xalted-LuaGuard--]

if DE can make the game as fun for me as it was last year, i dont care how they improve ^_^

 

as it is right now, there is really nothing more for me to do but grind void each update.

[Zerrien]

Instead, DE recognizes that by pulling the plug on incoming helmets, the old ones remain in circulation but can only decrease in number as players quit, are banned, or turn their statted helmets statless. Furthermore, the density of players who own these items will decrease as new players enter the game. The effects of these items on the game will thus be negligible given time, and noone feels slighted by DE's actions.

 

There will always be the Rhino Prime with Arcane Vanguard Helmet.

 

Scott's reaction today about Carrier was very worrisome on it's own. "What about all those people that put time/effort into Carrier, only to have it change into something different?" If you can look at the metrics that say Carrier is used WAY more often than other couriers, but are busy worried about rustling a few rumps, you need to... strengthen your resolve. Depending on how you look at it (Carrier's vacuum is a quality of life improvement that should be implemented into ALL Warframes/Sentinels, or, Carrier's vacuum is representative of what all other Sentinel's abilities should be: VERY USEFUL, or, Vacuum is too overpowered in it's current form and needs to be nerfed so other Sentinels are more desirable,) something has to change.

 

It's painful to look at the individual players who bought Carrier for 75plat simply for the benefits of Vacuum and say: "But, we can't hurt them..."

It's painful to look at the individual players who traded for Vacuum mod and say: "But we can't hurt them..."

 

But, it needs to happen. Painful changes need to happen for the health of the game.

 

Some hurt more than others, like removing Serration, which is a VERY valuable mod. Players paid lots of money to get fully-leveled versions in their inventory. Removing Carrier's signature ability, and giving him something else, only to see him tossed aside for a meta-shift towards Dethcube, or the like, is very hard to do, too. Removing ALL stat helms, simply because they cause an unbalanced play field is hard, after you've already come to a solution. (I'd even argue that it isn't 'proper' that a exclusive locked weapon/warframe is never obtainable again, has a benefit over players who have no opportunity to earn themselves, but that's a fight that'd never be won.)

 

Mods need to be redone. You don't become the most popular Action FPS with RPG elements without making a few enemies. It's a fundamental skill to look back and reconsider things that just aren't working.

[5Billion]

YEA IDK why DE is being so weak..

 

They wait like another month to release U14 and stuff, when the game is still in Beta..

 

We want to test S#&$, we want new S#&$, and overhaul and revamp stuff as you please DE, it's beta for you to find a middle ground. If you arent trying new stuff where new stuff is needed, then the game can't improve. You see feedback on the Mod system, on gameplay and movement, and on current and new content, but rarely release stuff that addresses the main problems. 

 

The game doesn't feel or play any different now than it did a year ago, and if this is what DE wants Warframe to be when it's an official game, then they're done.

 

And as some ppl have said, there's been nothing to do since the Grounds event, which i got the Prova Candle in about 2 hours.

[Corvid]

I say that it's DE's game. If they want to make sweeping changes, it's their call, not ours.

 

Prior to the stat removal, I owned every Arcane helmet. Most were bought with platinum, but the moment they were phased out, I bulk-bought all of the conversion blueprints. After a brief stint on the trading channel (in which none were sold), I converted them all.

 

Honestly, I would have preferred if DE had taken a firmer stance. Who knows? Maybe they might in the future. They did say that they'd monitor the situation, after all...

[Corvid]

YEA IDK why DE is being so weak..

 

They wait like another month to release U14 and stuff, when the game is still in Beta..

 

We want to test S#&$, we want new S#&$, and overhaul and revamp stuff as you please DE, it's beta for you to find a middle ground.

 

The reason for the delay is that most of the content is unfinished, or in a state that causes regular crashes. Personally, I prefer stability over speed. I would rather wait a week to test for the bugs that DE are unaware of, than play it now with errors that could have been avoided had it been delayed.

 

It's the same reason why I'm not bothered about Raze 3 being delayed twice.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Corvid

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[SteelCent]

Fair how exactly? Because you don't have something, someone else can't? How is someone having a stat'd helmet ruining your game experience exactly.Collectors items as such add longevity to a game, they don't take it away. No game change should be made because this kid over here doesn't like that other people have nice things.

 

The game does not improve if you remove helmets, that's a ridiculous idea. Removing customization options or legacy items is inconceivable. They are here to stay. It was a big decision to leave them here, they already thought what your thinking and they already decided to keep helmets around and able to be traded. You want one? Buy some plat, Buy one on the market. Support the game. 

 

You don't want one? Than why try and trash on everyone else and say they can't have it, because you can't or don't want it?

 

Just don't wear the helmet. Simple as that. Go further than that and its you trying to ruin everyone elses day because you don't have the mental faculties to understand why helmets exist. 

 

Helmets, don't carry anyone in this game. There's a lot more than a helmets difference between you and a good player. They have skill. Stat'd helmets are NOT an AIMBOT. This perceived advantage is complete bull and overblown. It's some guy thinking the only difference between him and a pro is a helmet and I'm sorry, you just are not on the level, you lack the skill and that is what is happening. Sorry to break it to you man. 

 

I drive a mercedes, you can't have one. and I'm not going to stop driving mine because you can't afford one, don't want one, or think nobody else should have one because YOU don't want to use it. Your car takes you to the same places. It's not as if I'm driving a tank. 

 

The answer is simple, Don't use one, To demand everyone else not use one - What illness do you suffer exactly, what chemical imbalance are you suffering? If you think the skill gap is too wide, a helmets difference won't help you. An Aimbot might.

 

The original poster agreed to the eula by signing and playing the game. Therefore Ban him for no reason as you are allowed. Why? Because their are provision to do so, which is the logic and reasoning he uses. How short-sighted.

 

You don't do something because you can, and you don't base decisions on some randoms' feelings. 

 

DE is not weak and pathetic, if they were they'd bow to these requests. They're strong and stand by their decision sorry kids. You can't break them that easy and they're not changing game design and philosophy for armchair developers.

Edited July 5, 2014 by SteelCent

[ItalianPlumber]

I don't care if my gear gets invalidated; I don't care if my max-rank mods are worthless; I don't care if the stuff I grinded for can be obtained in half the time with skill instead.

 

This game is too basic, too fundamentally flawed to advance healthily without changing.

 

Serration and other flat damage mods need the boot; Warframes' abilities need more skill-intensive use; the trash-mob-spam needs to stop in favor of tougher, smaller groups; the maps and movement need to be redone together; RNG is plaguing the game...

[fatpig84]

As long DE compensates them (yes I maxed Serration, Hornet strike and co manually with credits and cores) appropriately I am cool. And I would prefer them in stacks of Rare 5 cores instead of 1 legendary core :3

 

Changes, bring it on then.

Edited July 5, 2014 by fatpig84

[(PSN)DurandalTyr]

I'd be fine with sweeping changes.  If something happened where Serration was removed (for some reason), I'd just like to have the equivalent of fusion cores returned to my inventory.

 

Besides, it's just a game.

[MeduSalem]

TL;DR: I'm also fine with sweeping changes if they add flexibility for future expansions to the game or are made because of balancing reasons.

 

 

Like for example I hate the stiff and rigid animation/parcour stuff... They should get rid of that in favor of a more dynamic one... like being brought up in this thread:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/245184-indie-approach-to-procedural-animation-clever-ways-to-animate-and-how-this-relates-to-wf/

 

 

The mod system has some nice basics, but there are some serious flaws it can't overcome yet. For example the mandatory mods like Serration/Hornetstrike/Barreldiffusion/Split Chamber,... They take up at least a quarter of the builds and sometimes even more if you are going for a crit.build. Also Damage 2.0 had some nice ideas with the Elemental combinations and the Faction-specific resistances, but if you don't slap on at least 2-3 elementals you are far beyond screwed in some situations. I don't want to say that there's no choice, but if you don't use them the enemy just laughs at you. So basically on most weapons I got only 1 slot left for personal preference, while the rest is there just so I can kill the enemies at all.

 

On top of that the Polarity system is completely outdated because they forgot to balance the polarities on the mods in the past months. The Cicero/Tethra's Doom/Breeding Ground mods have all V polarities (even a Bar-type would have suited way better!!!) and shifted the polarity-priority even more towards V... as if the basic damage mods wouldn't be enough already. If you want to build upon Status Chance you have no other choice than using them. So you end up having 6-7 mods with friggin V polarities on your weapons. Every other default-polarity already existing on a weapon like for example D or Bar is just a pain in the @$$ because it prevents you from using the weapon to its maximum potential because of conflicts.

 

Another problem on-top of that is... if you like a weapon and forma'd it like 5-6 times already and then new "mandatory" mods come around with different polarities... you have to forma all over again just to get rid of the mismatching polarities you put on those weapons. That's just an insane waste of resources and time. Nobody should be forced to forma a weapon more than 8 times if there are only 8 slots on it. There should be an end to this madness. Once you forma'd all 8 slots you should be able to change any polarity to another polarity instantly without further forma'ing. It's no fun if your weapon becomes crippled with every new mod released. It doesn't feel rewarding at all.

 

 

Also the way how the Arcane Helmets were handled was a pure marketing-decision. They could have implemented an option to turn the stats on/off in a matter of hours. A fair middleground which most people would have been happy with. The topic has been around long enough. Yet they decided to make those helmets rare trade-able items with limited supply for the sake of profit. That's just how I see it.

Edited July 5, 2014 by MeduSalem

[neKroMancer]

I don't mind about sweeping change in the game as long as player can get better game out of it. Multiple aspects of the game still in need of changing. Players will upset, screaming for whatever things they lose. But those thing can be compensated through coding just like what they did with legendary core.

As long as it is beta, DE can do it.

We can play and give them feedback.

[WARLOCKE]

Fair how exactly? Because you don't have something, someone else can't? How is someone having a stat'd helmet ruining your game experience exactly.Collectors items as such add longevity to a game, they don't take it away. No game change should be made because this kid over here doesn't like that other people have nice things.

 

The game does not improve if you remove helmets, that's a ridiculous idea. Removing customization options or legacy items is inconceivable. They are here to stay. It was a big decision to leave them here, they already thought what your thinking and they already decided to keep helmets around and able to be traded. You want one? Buy some plat, Buy one on the market. Support the game. 

 

You don't want one? Than why try and trash on everyone else and say they can't have it, because you can't or don't want it?

 

Just don't wear the helmet. Simple as that. Go further than that and its you trying to ruin everyone elses day because you don't have the mental faculties to understand why helmets exist. 

 

Helmets, don't carry anyone in this game. There's a lot more than a helmets difference between you and a good player. They have skill. Stat'd helmets are NOT an AIMBOT. This perceived advantage is complete bull and overblown. It's some guy thinking the only difference between him and a pro is a helmet and I'm sorry, you just are not on the level, you lack the skill and that is what is happening. Sorry to break it to you man. 

 

I drive a mercedes, you can't have one. and I'm not going to stop driving mine because you can't afford one, don't want one, or think nobody else should have one because YOU don't want to use it. Your car takes you to the same places. It's not as if I'm driving a tank. 

 

The answer is simple, Don't use one, To demand everyone else not use one - What illness do you suffer exactly, what chemical imbalance are you suffering? If you think the skill gap is too wide, a helmets difference won't help you. An Aimbot might.

 

The original poster agreed to the eula by signing and playing the game. Therefore Ban him for no reason as you are allowed. Why? Because their are provision to do so, which is the logic and reasoning he uses. How short-sighted.

 

You don't do something because you can, and you don't base decisions on some randoms' feelings. 

 

DE is not weak and pathetic, if they were they'd bow to these requests. They're strong and stand by their decision sorry kids. You can't break them that easy and they're not changing game design and philosophy for armchair developers.

 

 

This is not possible. A living breathing rational person on the warframe forums? Its just to much to think about.

 

NERF RHINO ARCANEZ PLOX CUZ HE 2 FAST SHULDBE SLOW BECAUS................................I SAY SO

[Davoodoo]

I got nothing on the changes if they lead to something better, they might even change whole game if its be more enjoyable imo.

[NaniteCircuit]

my only problem is that my Transistor (Gram) is too weak and slow to be of much use, and the fact that it can't shoot beams from it's eye.

You just haven't gotten the right Traces().

[Chupacabra]

I welcome sweeping changes, anything that makes solving puzzles outside of the arsenal more frequent/challenging/satisfying etcis met with open arms by me,

 

BUT

 

When changes do happen, they need to be monitored, they need to be adjusted, they can't just be left alone for months without balancing, Feedback needs to be taken into account both before and after shipping etc etc, it's this that DE needs to work on.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Chupacabra

[DoomsDayDan]

Not changing a broken mechanic because people have invested in said mechanic is a really stupid idea, they should invoke beta and tear off the bandaid that is Serration and Hornet Strike

[jjpdn]

They should just refund the helmets stats. Give us 60 plat for each or something. For some, it's a very important part of some builds, and for others, they spend an imaginable amount of money on them.

 

 

Not changing a broken mechanic because people have invested in said mechanic is a really stupid idea, they should invoke beta and tear off the bandaid that is Serration and Hornet Strike

 

I'm not sure about that. Could you please explain what you mean by bandaid? 

Edited July 11, 2014 by jjpdn