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A Solution To The Mod Problem.


Octoknightx
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1. Remove all damage and multishot mods. Crit mods maybe...but that might ruin Paris Prime and Soma...refer to point 3 for additional details.

2. Give everyone legendary cores for every mod removed. Yeah this might ruin the market...but lets face it...I don't care.

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3. Increase weapons' damage, crit chance, crit damage, ammo capactiy, reload speed, rate of fire etc.(not all of these at once but just showing what could increase) every time you level. Ex: Let's say you got a gun that does 25 damage at unranked. If you level it to rank 1 the damage then increases to 30(random guess, the amount of damage is up to devs).

4. Add Pyra Sugatra

5. Remove all health, shield, and armor mods and give everyone a legendary core for every mod removed(this includes sentinels). Make them increase with each level like with weapons. So for those who like to Rage+Life Strike+Hysteria Valkyr they would just have to level to 30 to increase their armor and health to the fullest(whatever is the fullest is up to devs). Also maybe Intesify, Stretch, and Continuity should also be removed and our powers would just level along with us like(give everyone legendary cores for those too).

6. Balance all enemies around the max damage and health/shields/armor we can now have. No meatbags or damage steroids please :/

7. Add Pyra Sugatra

8. Make grenades bounce off of Frost's Snowglobe please...friend of mine died to one that went through...or at least it was the explosion in which case it shouldn't be happening.

9. FIX GRENADES! Add an indicator...or just remove them until you can totally revamp them in U50. [rant off]

10. Obviously fix some powers here and there and buff some weapons etc.

11. Add Pyra Sugatra

12. GG you deserve some Kubr O's with Greedy Milk.

 

Sure the game still isn't perfect but it just got a whole lot better.

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I would said not 'remove' generic mods, but tone it down and give part of their stat increase to frame/weapon leveling system, as you propose in 3 and 5.

This way you should have the possibility to beef your shields/health/general damage to the max if you wish, but at the same time this change will remove those mods from 'necessary list', giving you more possibilities to customize.

Edited by Khranitel
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So basically, make all the "necessary" mods be part of naturally levelling up instead, removing them as mods and implementing them as natural progression?
I approve of that idea, though I don't think DE does. They seem very adamant about that not being their design philosofy for this game, but I for one would be very happy with that change. It'd give some lesser-used mods a chance at the spotlight too since there'd be more mod slots open.

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I would said not 'remove' generic mods, but tone it down and give part of their stat increase to frame/weapon leveling system, as you propose in 3 and 5.

This way you should have the possibility to beef your shields/health/general damage to the max if you wish, but at the same time it will remove those mods from 'obligatory list', giving you more possibilities to customize.

But there is no reason for it since the enemies will be perfectly balanced around the max damage and survivability anyone can have at rank 30. If you leave those mods in it would just ruin it and leave us with the same mess.

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Instead of removing them change them into something at least remotely interesting.

 

Serration 10 ranks, rank 0 5% dmg boost, rank 10 25% dmg boost.

Multishot 10 ranks fire 2 bullets instead of 1 rank 0 each bullet does 50% dmg rank 10 each bullet does 60% dmg for total of 120% dmg.

Elemental mods each of them changes base dmg type to specific element. You equip one you have 100% of that element dmg, with 2 its spread 50/50, 4 25/25/25/25.

regular mods are 5 ranks and increase dmg, rank 0 0% dmg boost, rank 5 5% dmg boost.

event mods could still increase status chance like they do now.

 

Then just balance weapons to compensate, none of this bonuses is gamebreaking yet they add some customisation to weapons and give progressive power increase.

 

Rainbow builds become actual decision, damage mods are mandatory, multishot again wont be mandatory.

 

There are also problems with frames. There isnt that much difference between tanky and squishy frames. They all put same mods that boost same stats, theres no specialization. 

Edited by Davoodoo
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You'd think someone at DE would have thought of this before! (sarcasm, btw)

 

We already gain more health and what have you as our warframe levels up to boost our survivability, which is nice and should be adequate. But if someone wants to be more tanky and put on health/shield mods they should be able to, but it shouldn't feel like a necessity like it does now. That is mainly because of the enemy problem, not mods. If the enemy instead gained more abilities that challenged how you approach them rather than becoming meatbags that shoots trains at your face, that alone would shake things up quite a bit.

 

Listen mate, it's not a simple fix. How long did you sit down and think of this? Minutes, is what I'm guessing. The people at DE knows waaaay more about the design philosophy of this game than we do, so it's not so simple that one guy can sit down for a few minutes and fix everything (no offense meant). This is a core part of the game, change it even slightly and there will be a noticable difference.

 

I DO however agree with flat damage mods (that carry no side-effects), they are very boring indeed.

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Ah, Imo the best thing should be to do as Steve wishes it had been done : All mods have drawback, such as corrupted mods and the new melee ones

NO! Channeling mods suck. Well I mean the drawbacks do. Seriously the channeling efficiency is so crap....just....don't. Corrupted mods on the other hand actually work. You can use one corrupted mod to counteract another corrupted mod and actually get the benefits of both. Channeling mods have no such thing and only get worse. Sure you have those mods that do add efficiency...but they suck and aren't enough. Anyway this is not part of my idea.

 

You'd think someone at DE would have thought of this before! (sarcasm, btw)

 

We already gain more health and what have you as our warframe levels up to boost our survivability, which is nice and should be adequate. But if someone wants to be more tanky and put on health/shield mods they should be able to, but it shouldn't feel like a necessity like it does now. That is mainly because of the enemy problem, not mods. If the enemy instead gained more abilities that challenged how you approach them rather than becoming meatbags that shoots trains at your face, that alone would shake things up quite a bit.

 

Listen mate, it's not a simple fix. How long did you sit down and think of this? Minutes, is what I'm guessing. The people at DE knows waaaay more about the design philosophy of this game than we do, so it's not so simple that one guy can sit down for a few minutes and fix everything (no offense meant). This is a core part of the game, change it even slightly and there will be a noticable difference.

 

I DO however agree with flat damage mods (that carry no side-effects), they are very boring indeed.

Well the thing with the bonuses for leveling a warframe right now won't cover for the removal of health, shield and armor mods. So I was thinking that the bonuses would just be buffed in a way that is different for every warframe. So this way Loki is going to get 50 health when he reaches rank 5 but Rhino will get 100 at rank 5(random numbers not definite). But I guess if you want to keep those mods then...we could balance each warframe around those mods to still keep the balance...but that is a hell lotta work.

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2. Give everyone legendary cores for every mod removed. Yeah this might ruin the market...but lets face it...I don't care.

 

 

What exactly do you expect me to do with approximately 15 Legendary Cores when you just removed all the desirable Rank 10s?

 

Would you also reimburse me for every Forma I have used to half the cost of Serration, Redirection, Split Chamber etc.?

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How about we leave everything just as it is, and let DE make new mobs, which they will keep making anyway, that don't have Bullet Attractor as part of one their built in abilities?

 

I don't know about you, but if I found out that the Stalker was like the common unit of a new race that wanted to take over the solar system, and got a vid link from Lotus saying "prepare Tenno! They are coming!", I'd say "Sure, right on it!" and then pack my stuff and move to ANOTHER galaxy.

 

It doesn't matter how many newborn kittens you throw at me when I have a flamethrower, I will only probably die of cuteness overload after my ammo runs out, not because of sheer numbers.

 

If you all want a challenge, there needs to exist challenging units, not waves of cannon fodder. It's becoming kind of tiring pointing out that the mod system is fine, it's just the bad guys that encourage our current "everything is nails, so bring a big hammer" mentality of just stacking for DPS.

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How about we leave everything just as it is, and let DE make new mobs, which they will keep making anyway, that don't have Bullet Attractor as part of one their built in abilities?

 

I don't know about you, but if I found out that the Stalker was like the common unit of a new race that wanted to take over the solar system, and got a vid link from Lotus saying "prepare Tenno! They are coming!", I'd say "Sure, right on it!" and then pack my stuff and move to ANOTHER galaxy.

 

It doesn't matter how many newborn kittens you throw at me when I have a flamethrower, I will only probably die of cuteness overload after my ammo runs out, not because of sheer numbers.

 

If you all want a challenge, there needs to exist challenging units, not waves of cannon fodder. It's becoming kind of tiring pointing out that the mod system is fine, it's just the bad guys that encourage our current "everything is nails, so bring a big hammer" mentality of just stacking for DPS.

This is a different issue. My point is not about the difficulty of enemies really. Just how removing certain mods and balancing the enemies around our max damage and survivability will make this game better. Also Pyra Sugatra. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Edited by Octoknightx
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Just because It's 1 am and I can't sleep anyway, let me make up some really badly thought out units that would currently make Tenno's cry like little children, without even using a slightly cheating method of giving them generic invulnerabilities to things.

 

Statis Drones : Oh look, it's just like Neo in The Matrix. It would appear all your bullet spam is being slowed right down. Let me just dodge those 200 rounds by moving over here. Oh, you have a Flux Rifle! and an Ignis! HAX, why are they getting through???

 

Emp Pulse units : Did I just make that Penta nade explode in front of your face? Priceless. Yea, be careful with that missile launcher too. Oh, you set some nades down before I got here? Clever girl ...

 

Stealthed Snipers : They might not have any shields or health to speak of, but ... where the hell is he hiding. Oww. Dammit. Over there!. Oww.

 

Energy Lance melee : You have shields? That's funny, these things I have right here go right through. The slow blade penetrates the shield Tenno! Oh, this isn't Dune? My bad.

 

 

 

 

On another note, someone please explain to me why Infested drop ammunition. I mean, just teach the bastards to stop eating the stuff so that when we kill them we can't reload anything, and by wave 5 we'd have to swap to melee.

 

 

 

The reason we have it so easy is because DE is probably a bit worried about making it harder. Just look at the complaints with the infested flying units or the Prosecutors (I admit I also said a few minor things), and we shout "that's just annoying" well, everyone finds a challenge in totally different things, it's kinda hard to get it right for people.

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This is a different issue. My point is not about the difficulty of enemies really. Just how removing certain mods and balancing the enemies around our max damage and survivability will make this game better. Also Pyra Sugatra. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

You can't balance around damage anymore. You would now have to balance around not letting players apply that damage every second of every minute like we can now.

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The people at DE knows waaaay more about the design philosophy of this game than we do, so it's not so simple that one guy can sit down for a few minutes and fix everything (no offense meant).

Yep, sure RNG over RNG layer must be the secret zen of game design, I wonder why no one else discovered that yet.

One essential problem is that the devs are mostly (only?) applying bandfixes.

Look at the enemy diversity for about a year nothing happened..... except their numbers have been ramped up.

 

PS. Stick your "no offense" wherever, it's a lame excuse.

Edited by SirSlayer
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This is too extreme.  The whole game is built around mods, throwing most of them out would be disrupting.  And without mods, legendary cores are useless.  Base damage and multishot mods need a simple nerf, not removal.

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Yep, sure RNG over RNG layer must be the secret zen of game design, I wonder why no one else discovered that yet.

One essential problem is that the devs are mostly (only?) applying bandfixes.

Look at the enemy diversity for about a year nothing happened..... except their numbers have been ramped up.

 

PS. Stick your "no offense" wherever, it's a lame excuse.

 

Wow. Kinda makes me feel like Im a DE employee here. Why are you attacking me again?

 

I'm not going to stick anything anywhere. Did you like.... read my post even? The point I made was that DE knows better than us where they want to go with the game (which... is true.). I'm not white-knighting DE here, at all. There's a bunch of things I would like changed, the RNG onion you described being one, but mostly enemy difficulty which I said in my post. By adding new and challenging abilities to enemies you make the game more... well, challenging, instead of simply turning a nob that says "raise meatball level" as the player progress. Just because of that, mods (which was the primary point in this thread btw) that are/feel essential won't BE essential anymore, and that in turn would open up for a lot more different builds.

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"How long did you sit down and think of this? Minutes, is what I'm guessing"

The point I made was that DE knows better than us where they want to go with the game (which... is true.). 

Well... duh.

 

Yes I read your post. You dismissed someone elses opinion on the "they are game designers, so they know better".

You didn't tell a good reason why his opinion (not giving them any rating) is wrong.

 

Atleast we agree on enemy diversity being a problem.

 

PS. "No offense" is widely used as excuse to just say something offensive. If you don't want to be offensive... maybe word your post differently?

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What would I do with all the legendary cores, when there are no mods left worthy to spend one on?

 

Either way...

Redirection

Vitality

Serration

Hornet Strike

 

are meant to emulate a progress bar, because they grow with your ingame progress. So removing them would mean, aside from Mastery Rank, there is nothing left, except formas put into weapons.

 

I don't see where this would lead to better game experience.

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What would I do with all the legendary cores, when there are no mods left worthy to spend one on?

 

Either way...

Redirection

Vitality

Serration

Hornet Strike

 

are meant to emulate a progress bar, because they grow with your ingame progress. So removing them would mean, aside from Mastery Rank, there is nothing left, except formas put into weapons.

 

I don't see where this would lead to better game experience.

The problem is that 3 of those 4 are mandatory and take away one of the customisation slots for weapons/frames.

 

When was the last time (if ever) that you equipped diamond skin or flame repellent?

These mods had potential but they came totally butchered into the game.

Edited by SirSlayer
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The problem is that 3 of those 4 are mandatory and take away one of the customisation slots for weapons/frames.

 

When was the last time (if ever) that you equipped diamond skin or flame repellent?

These mods had potential but they came totally butchered into the game.

Removing them wont make diamond skin of flame repellent more useful, even if you remove 4 mods there are at least 4 mods better than diamond and flame.

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What would I do with all the legendary cores, when there are no mods left worthy to spend one on?

 

Either way...

Redirection

Vitality

Serration

Hornet Strike

 

are meant to emulate a progress bar, because they grow with your ingame progress. So removing them would mean, aside from Mastery Rank, there is nothing left, except formas put into weapons.

 

I don't see where this would lead to better game experience.

You would think people would gladly give up their Serrations, Hornet Strikes, etc. in order to fix the game. And anyway who said it has to be a legendary core. Just as long as it is decent. Maybe some accessories. PYRA SUGATRA PLEASE!

And if you read everything you would've seen my point on balancing enemies around our max damage and survivability at rank 30, no more meatbags or crazy super damage guys. So with the natural progression of leveling your warframe and weapons you gain more health, shields, damage, etc. as the enemies also get harder. This is my point.

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Removing them wont make diamond skin of flame repellent more useful, even if you remove 4 mods there are at least 4 mods better than diamond and flame.

I didn't mean diamond skin / flame repellent in their current incarnation. For one the % they give is way too low.

The other if you get an ice/fire level is purely random so why would you gimp your fit with it?

Why not give partial fire immunity or damage deflection on certain enemy types?

 

 

If they make some place a glacier zone sure good chance to make it right.

 

Also there will always be (relatively) better or worse mods  but there's such a huge cliff between them now....

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