Valkyr Rework Idea (Focused On Hysteria)

[-CM-Machete]

As many of you should know, Valkyr is often only used as a late game nurse, after reading this guide I noticed Valkyr could be used in a more varied way than just an unkillable nurse.

 

The main problem with Valkyr is that her ultimate ability scales horribly with difficulty level, just like any other ability based on fixed numbers instead of percentages or context, the second is that those 20, 40 or 50 seconds (depending on your build) are the most boring ones you will ever have playing this game. This is an opinion on how Hysteria could be turned into an actually helpful and non-redundant ability. 

 

The main problem is how damage scales, so, a way to make it scale properly is:

 

1.1 Use the weapon she is carrying and ALL its stats (included damage), stance included. With a default buff of 10%/20%/35%/50%

 

1.2 Turn Hysteria into a channeling-like ability and put a combo based damage-multiplier when it is enabled, just like channeling. Obviously you will not be able to do channeling when this is enabled. This will be channeling for Valkyr. There should not be a max multiplier number, the idea is that this will scale according to the amount of successful attacks done. The thing Hysteria's rank could affect, is the combo's reset timer between successful impacts, for example: 2/3/4/6 seconds.

 

1.3 Make Valkyr unable to do channeling without Hysteria (just to confirm the thing said above). (debatable point, read below)

 

1.4 Reduce massively the health gain by impact to 0.25%/0.5%/1%/1.5%.

 

1.5 Reduce Valkyr's Health at a ratio from 5/10/20/30 per second depending on the level of the mod, the more ranked the mod is the more health it drains. The health drain will ignore armor.

 

1.6 Let the player stop Hysteria at any time after the first third of its duration has passed by holding the "4" key for 2 seconds, this requirement will avoid "unforeseen consequences" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) . Energy cost will still the same, but it will stop draining your life.

 

1.7 Any channeling mod will affect your energy as they do in regular channeling. Mods like killing blow will affect damage after rest of the mods (as it normally does) but before combo multiplier (I don't know if it is currently that way).

 

This of course would change if Vakyr still being able of doing regular channeling, if she is, then the melee buff of the point 1.1 will not be part of Hysteria and point 1.7 would not exist at all, the combo reset timer from Hysteria would replace regular channeling combo timer not matter if it is shorter or longer and Hysteria would only affect damage multiplier while channeling on a small way, like 50% of the current mutiplier, so if the mutiplier is on x2 this would increase it by 1 for a total of x3 damage . Hysteria should reduce channeling cost by certain percentage.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This idea was meant since start based on Hysteria replacing regular channeling, so it is normal if you think that the option of keeping regular channeling intact sounds "rushed".

 

I know it is "weird", but I think each warframe needs to start being REALLY different from the rest, maybe all, maybe just some of them. With this rework idea I tried to keep a balance between power and vulnerability, I hope devs take this on consideration, if not all, maybe a part of this. As I don't have much idea of a major part of the metagame, I can't really be sure of the numbers I used, so they are only approximations of the ideal ratios, percentages and fixed amounts. The points are ordered that way because there could maybe come up newer ideas about any other power or  characteristic that could start a the "point 2.0".

 

Please upvote if you like this idea and feel free to do any suggestions. 

Edited July 6, 2014 by PersonalYisus

[Azawarau]

How about remove invincibility

[-CM-Machete]

How about remove invincibility

 

That's what the health drain is about. If you have a maxed Vitality on Valkyr she can't even reach the 900HP a maxed Hysteria would drain, so you will have to always kill enough mobs to not die and even more to recover from an HP loss. The HP drain will ignore armor BTW. 

Edited July 6, 2014 by PersonalYisus

[Azawarau]

That's what the health drain is about. If you have a maxed Vitality on Valkyr she can't even reach the 900HP a maxed Hysteria would drain, so you will have to always kill enough mobs to not die and even more to recover from an HP loss. The HP drain will ignore armor BTW. 

That didnt answer the question at all

[Nyxcha]

That didnt answer the question at all

while i agree the invincibility is overkill (30 secounds...wtf)

 

we do have to keep in mind she is limited to melee. and the melee she has is very awkward to use.

 

so we need to change both of those.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----------------------------

 

my idea, is we keep the invincibility, BUT her hp will constantly decrease while in hysteria(her blood is leaking out).    

 

the rate her hp decreases increases with the number of enemys that enter melee range. (this will continue to increase as more enemys enter melee range and are highlighted. even if you kill them, thier hp loss stack stays)

 

so (for example, these % are not set in stone and are up for debate)

*Valkyr  enters hysteria.  invicibility activates.  hp decreases at 1% per secound.

1 enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 1.5% per secound

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2% per secound.

Valkyr kills an enemy,  hp decrease stays at 2% despite there only being 1 enemy in melee range.

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2.5% per secound.

Valkyr kills all enemys.  hp decrease rate remains at 2.5% per secound.

 

and so on. continuing to stack until Valkyr ends hysteria or reaches 5hp.   at 5hp hysteria will automatically end (and shields will become active again)

 

 

 

she can recover her hp by hitting enemys (a fixed 5% hp recover per hit).

 

in addition, she uses her melee weapon, not the awkward fists.  (melee weapon might have a dmg buff. dependant on how much skill needs to be balanced)

 

she can choose to cancel Hysteria at any time (it costs 100 energy every time you start it.)

 

 

 

overall this will make her invicible for a while, but the longer she stays in hysteria, the more hp decreases will stack and make it harder to stay in the mode. even with the hp recover from hitting enemys.

 

so she will have to exit the hysteria mode from time to time and restart it to reset the hp decrease stacks.

 

 

----------------------------------

i'm not sure how abusable the restart mechanic will be.

if its to much, we can disable energy gain while she is in hysteria mode

 

 

--------------------------------

now, starting the hp decrease immediatly might gimp the skill, so she could have a grace period of say 4-5 secs of invicibility before the hp decrease starts. 

 

again this is dependant on how balanced the skill is. 

 

so it would be like this

 

*Valkyr  enters hysteria.  invicibility activates.  

1 enemy enters melee range.  no hp decrease.

5 secounds have now passed since hysteria activated.

hp now decreases at 1% per secound.

1 more enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 1.5% per secound

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2% per secound.

Valkyr kills an enemy,  hp decrease stays at 2% despite there only being 1 enemy in melee range.

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2.5% per secound.

Valkyr kills all enemys.  hp decrease rate remains at 2.5% per secound.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Amberpaw

[-CM-Machete]

That didnt answer the question at all

 

Yes it does. Being limited to melee and your health being drained is just enough to keep "invincibility".

[Azawarau]

while i agree the invincibility is overkill (30 secounds...wtf)

 

we do have to keep in mind she is limited to melee. and the melee she has is very awkward to use.

 

so we need to change both of those.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----------------------------

 

my idea, is we keep the invincibility, BUT her hp will constantly decrease while in hysteria(her blood is leaking out).    

 

the rate her hp decreases increases with the number of enemys that enter melee range. (this will continue to increase as more enemys enter melee range and are highlighted. even if you kill them, thier hp loss stack stays)

 

so (for example, these % are not set in stone and are up for debate)

*Valkyr  enters hysteria.  invicibility activates.  hp decreases at 1% per secound.

1 enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 1.5% per secound

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2% per secound.

Valkyr kills an enemy,  hp decrease stays at 2% despite there only being 1 enemy in melee range.

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2.5% per secound.

Valkyr kills all enemys.  hp decrease rate remains at 2.5% per secound.

 

and so on. continuing to stack until Valkyr ends hysteria or reaches 5hp.   at 5hp hysteria will automatically end (and shields will become active again)

 

 

 

she can recover her hp by hitting enemys (a fixed 5% hp recover per hit).

 

in addition, she uses her melee weapon, not the awkward fists.  (melee weapon might have a dmg buff. dependant on how much skill needs to be balanced)

 

she can choose to cancel Hysteria at any time (it costs 100 energy every time you start it.)

 

 

 

overall this will make her invicible for a while, but the longer she stays in hysteria, the more hp decreases will stack and make it harder to stay in the mode. even with the hp recover from hitting enemys.

 

so she will have to exit the hysteria mode from time to time and restart it to reset the hp decrease stacks.

 

 

----------------------------------

i'm not sure how abusable the restart mechanic will be.

if its to much, we can disable energy gain while she is in hysteria mode

 

 

--------------------------------

now, starting the hp decrease immediatly might gimp the skill, so she could have a grace period of say 4-5 secs of invicibility before the hp decrease starts. 

 

again this is dependant on how balanced the skill is. 

 

so it would be like this

 

*Valkyr  enters hysteria.  invicibility activates.  

1 enemy enters melee range.  no hp decrease.

5 secounds have now passed since hysteria activated.

hp now decreases at 1% per secound.

1 more enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 1.5% per secound

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2% per secound.

Valkyr kills an enemy,  hp decrease stays at 2% despite there only being 1 enemy in melee range.

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2.5% per secound.

Valkyr kills all enemys.  hp decrease rate remains at 2.5% per secound.

That HP drain sounds awfully scary

 

I tend to focus on groups with melee targeting the heaviest uit first so that Hysteria idea is something id shy away from quickly...

 

Yes it does. Being limited to melee and your health being drained is just enough to keep "invincibility".

Except that youre invincible still

 

The health drain will have a minimal effect on valkyrs hysteria

 

The only difference being shell be less useful against high level grineer who she cant life steal as much from and she has to keep attacking to stay in it

 

Why not remove invi entirely and make it more useful than that?

[-CM-Machete]

while i agree the invincibility is overkill (30 secounds...wtf)

 

we do have to keep in mind she is limited to melee. and the melee she has is very awkward to use.

 

so we need to change both of those.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----------------------------

 

my idea, is we keep the invincibility, BUT her hp will constantly decrease while in hysteria(her blood is leaking out).    

 

the rate her hp decreases increases with the number of enemys that enter melee range. (this will continue to increase as more enemys enter melee range and are highlighted. even if you kill them, thier hp loss stack stays)

 

so (for example, these % are not set in stone and are up for debate)

*Valkyr  enters hysteria.  invicibility activates.  hp decreases at 1% per secound.

1 enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 1.5% per secound

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2% per secound.

Valkyr kills an enemy,  hp decrease stays at 2% despite there only being 1 enemy in melee range.

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2.5% per secound.

Valkyr kills all enemys.  hp decrease rate remains at 2.5% per secound.

 

and so on. continuing to stack until Valkyr ends hysteria or reaches 5hp.   at 5hp hysteria will automatically end (and shields will become active again)

 

 

 

she can recover her hp by hitting enemys (a fixed 5% hp recover per hit).

 

in addition, she uses her melee weapon, not the awkward fists.  (melee weapon might have a dmg buff. dependant on how much skill needs to be balanced)

 

she can choose to cancel Hysteria at any time (it costs 100 energy every time you start it.)

 

 

 

overall this will make her invicible for a while, but the longer she stays in hysteria, the more hp decreases will stack and make it harder to stay in the mode. even with the hp recover from hitting enemys.

 

so she will have to exit the hysteria mode from time to time and restart it to reset the hp decrease stacks.

 

 

----------------------------------

i'm not sure how abusable the restart mechanic will be.

if its to much, we can disable energy gain while she is in hysteria mode

 

 

--------------------------------

now, starting the hp decrease immediatly might gimp the skill, so she could have a grace period of say 4-5 secs of invicibility before the hp decrease starts. 

 

again this is dependant on how balanced the skill is. 

 

so it would be like this

 

*Valkyr  enters hysteria.  invicibility activates.  

1 enemy enters melee range.  no hp decrease.

5 secounds have now passed since hysteria activated.

hp now decreases at 1% per secound.

1 more enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 1.5% per secound

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2% per secound.

Valkyr kills an enemy,  hp decrease stays at 2% despite there only being 1 enemy in melee range.

another enemy enters melee range. hp decrease rate increases to 2.5% per secound.

Valkyr kills all enemys.  hp decrease rate remains at 2.5% per secound.

 

Sorry but your way to calculate hp drain is VERY overdone and it loads unnecessarily the CPU, I thought something similar, but discarded it for lore/"realistic" reasons (Hysteria is a mental disorder, if she starts hysteria she would be angrier crazier over time) and how unnecessary it would be the load on CPU against just using a fixed amount of drain over time. Not to mention is a meaningless health drop.

 

The HP drain since start is meant to make the player to use it wisely and not crazily spamming it.

 

The "grace period" is useless on late -and no so late- survivals. This is why Azawarau, she will just almost auto die after casting.

 

The idea of don't letting her collect is pretty good. However, take in count that the restart mechanic is for stopping health drain, those 100 energy points will be already burned is not like Valkyrs ideal aura is Energy Syphon. But reducing all the energy income to 1/4 or even to 1/2 could fix abusing the restart.

 

The fixed 5% HP recovering is just too much, it is the amount  she already has, and it is currently op even taking in count that it only deals 300 of physical damage, figure this with a custom melee weapon, you would probably regain all health in three seconds in the worst case.

 

Cancelling Hysteria any time is also viable, but it loses half of its intended nerf by allowing you to clean a small crowd on a couple of seconds and then turning it off. Im even starting to think the 10 seconds I set for being able to turn it off could be not enough, there should be a real punishment for using Hysteria without any care aside from losing 4 orbs you will recover easily on a late survival.

 

Thanks for your reply.

Edited July 6, 2014 by PersonalYisus

[-CM-Machete]

That HP drain sounds awfully scary

 

I tend to focus on groups with melee targeting the heaviest uit first so that Hysteria idea is something id shy away from quickly...

 

Except that youre invincible still

 

The health drain will have a minimal effect on valkyrs hysteria

 

The only difference being shell be less useful against high level grineer who she cant life steal as much from and she has to keep attacking to stay in it

 

Why not remove invi entirely and make it more useful than that?

 

Removing invincibility will make her just as killable as a non invisible Loki on higher levels. And she won't be "invincible", if you play dumb you can kill yourself just by enabling it.

[Nyxcha]

eh it was an idea. =)

 

just my 2 cents.

 

anyway i'm looking forward to your ideas fully explained =D

 

love Valkyr. its Ember with overheat on 24/7

 

i still think disablign the ability to get energy while she is in hysteria would help to an extent

Edited July 6, 2014 by Amberpaw

[Azawarau]

Removing invincibility will make her just as killable as a non invisible Loki on higher levels. And she won't be "invincible", if you play dumb you can kill yourself just by enabling it.

Taking infinite amounts of dmg in exchange for being near useless is already what hysteria is known for

 

Why make it worse?

[-CM-Machete]

If you would read my first post instead of 1 line every two, you would have noticed my suggestion of turning Hysteria into a Valkyrs' actual channeling and using your own melee stats and damage with it. It is an entire rework with more than just the health drain.

Edited July 6, 2014 by PersonalYisus

[Azawarau]

If you would read my first post instead of 1 line every two, you would have noticed my suggestion of turning Hysteria into a Valkyrs' actual channeling and using your own melee stats and damage with it. It is an entire rework with more than just the health drain.

I read the post and dislike the idea

 

Invincibility with melee power is a bad idea

[-CM-Machete]

I read the post and dislike the idea

 

Invincibility with melee power is a bad idea

 

And again, that's what the health drain is meant to fix.

[Azawarau]

And again, that's what the health drain is meant to fix.

Its not a good one in this case

 

1 trinity 4 valkyr would be broken unless you limit trinity heals on them and thatd be changing game features to balance a power and make trinity less useful