Overheat - The Root Of Every Ember Topic

[Vargras]

There's been a multitude of Ember buff topics lately, and at their very core, all of them are about one thing.

 

Overheat.

 

Now, I'm not going to deny that Ember could use a buff (Fireblast, ugh), but almost every topic I find is more or less about how Ember is now bad because she doesn't have Overheat anymore, and everything requires her to be at close range, etc. etc. While Overheat had some potential, it was horribly broken (90% damage reduction or higher, as well as constant nearby damage, is kinda nuts), and I personally think the game is better off without it -- however, I'm saying this as someone who never got to experience it first-hand. I picked up my Ember after Overheat had been replaced by Accelerant (which I do enjoy).

 

So, I'm asking those of you who did get to use Overheat: What's the deal with Overheat, and why do you want it back so badly?

[Towermice]

90% wasn't bad, it's not completely invincible like rhino/valkyr.

 

I liked it for the defense boost, and the bonus that it gave to WoF. It made her more of a tank, like what she looks like.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Towermice

[PsychedelicSnake]

I used Overheat.

 

I can live without it. I prefer to, actually. I don't like having to rely on a single skill to survive.

[LukeAura]

I had it for a little while, only got to play with it a bit before it got sent down the nerf spiral.

Ultimately the idea of a mage-tank was really fun. And relying on high damage reduction instead of CC was fairly unique, without being too powerful because you could still be whittled down, the nerfs it took started happening roughly around the time Corrupted mods were being developed and probably happened just so she couldn't hit full immunity. It gave Ember security while also keeping the intense pace her frailty tended to incur.

Although I don't want it back, at least not for Ember any ways. Although seeing a rendition of it on another frame intended to be a CQC-Mage-Tank would be awesome, maybe with a little more balancing though. 

 

[Vargras]

90% wasn't bad, it's not completely invincible like rhino/valkyr.

 

I liked it for the defense boost, and the bonus that it gave to WoF. It made her more of a tank, like what she looks like.

Except Iron Skin is a static amount (which doesn't scale), and Valkyr's is tied to her ultimate.

 

That's nothing at all like a % DR tied to a non-ultimate ability.

[Towermice]

Fire damage is pretty much useless, so Accelerate is completely unnecessary, I don't think i've seen anyone use it ever (except for when they cast WoF). Fireblast is just so bad and unfitting, why have a defensive skill for an offensive caster. Fireball doesn't scale well at all.  

[VKhaun]

Overheat's removal had nothing to do with strength. It didn't belong on a glass cannon. I fully expect that it'll make a comeback in some form or another when neutral abilities are put in, and Ember can go right back to using it.

 

If Overheat was too strong, it wasn't because of just damage reduction but because it got so much out of one modifier. Power strength gave it damage AND damage reduction. That's a big no-no in game balance IMO. People don't think of it as a damage skill, but it did more damage to more targets than fire blast's fire ring did, which at the time was considerable.

[Towermice]

 It wasn't 90% It was 40%

Edited July 7, 2014 by Towermice

[Vargras]

Although I don't want it back, at least not for Ember any ways. Although seeing a rendition of it on another frame intended to be a CQC-Mage-Tank would be awesome, maybe with a little more balancing though.

I think that's what Saryn is meant to be, but she still needs some other buffs to really get there.

 

Fire damage is pretty much useless, so Accelerate is completely unnecessary, I don't think i've seen anyone use it ever (except for when they cast WoF). Fireblast is just so bad and unfitting, why have a defensive skill for an offensive caster. Fireball doesn't scale well at all.  

Why have Overheat, then? It was a defensive skill for an offensive caster.

 

Fireblast really does need some buffs though.

 

 It wasn't 90% It was 40%

The DR scaled with power strength mods. 90% or higher was fully possible.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Vargras

[Towermice]

I think that's what Saryn is meant to be, but she still needs some other buffs to really get there.

 

Why have Overheat, then? It was a defensive skill for an offensive caster.

 

Fireblast really does need some buffs though.

it is a defensive skill, but it helps you defend yourself, not your team-mates or the pod.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Towermice

[Vargras]

it is a defensive skill, but it helps you defend yourself, not your team-mates or the pod.

I feel it's meant for area-denial, which is defensive in nature. Not quite as obvious as Snow Globe, but still has a potential use -- Grineer and Corpus try to avoid it, and Infested run into it. It just needs a serious damage and proc chance boost.

[LukeAura]

 It wasn't 90% It was 40%

After a nerf or two. It started at 70% but because Ember had a natural want for more damage in her skills it was pretty much always at 91% because of the now named Intensify mod. 

And if anyone needs proof that its nerfing was tied to the release of Corrupted mods, the new maximum potential damage reduction with corrupted mods it reached was within 1% of its old one, and its nerfing happened shortly before Corrupted mods came out. At that point the skill became too restrictive to mod for and it was just taken out entirely. The official reason was she was meant to be a frail but powerful caster but clearly something else was going on here or they would have never given her Overheat in the first place, or bothered trying to nerf/balance it.  

Tinfoil hats any one? 

 

Edited July 7, 2014 by LukeAura

[MoyuTheTrinity]

Fire damage is pretty much useless, so Accelerate is completely unnecessary, I don't think i've seen anyone use it ever (except for when they cast WoF). Fireblast is just so bad and unfitting, why have a defensive skill for an offensive caster. Fireball doesn't scale well at all.  

 

fireball is a cheaper WoF same damage less cost 50% chance to explode and hurt neerby thingys its not thaaat bad compaired to the ult

 

After a nerf or two. It started at 70% but because Ember had a natural want for more damage in her skills it was pretty much always at 91% because of the now named Intensify mod. 

And if anyone needs proof that its nerfing was tied to the release of Corrupted mods, the new maximum potential damage reduction with corrupted mods it reached was within 1% of its old one, and its nerfing happened shortly before Corrupted mods came out. At that point the skill became too restrictive to mod for and it was just taken out entirely. The official reason was she was meant to be a frail but powerful caster but clearly something else was going on here or they would have never given her Overheat in the first place, or bothered trying to nerf/balance it.  

Tinfoil hats any one?

 

overheat originaly was just a much weaker WoF and had no reason so they gave it one by giving it DR ember was not made with DR

Edited July 7, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic

[HalfricanGuy]

Fire damage is pretty much useless, so Accelerate is completely unnecessary, I don't think i've seen anyone use it ever (except for when they cast WoF). Fireblast is just so bad and unfitting, why have a defensive skill for an offensive caster. Fireball doesn't scale well at all.  

Accelerant is Ember's most useful ability and I can honestly say I like it more than I ever liked Overheat. The stun from Accelerant is more useful than the boosted fire damage. Stopping enemies from shooting at me is more important than making them do less damage to me.

 

If you can't tell, I also like using a minimum-duration Chaos build on Nyx for the spammable stuns.

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

i can survive without it, but the idea of whupping @$$ close quarters while giant pillars of fire are bursting around you setting your surroundings on fire, sounds like the climax of an action movie

 

and at above, remove fire blast, give me back overheat and i swear i'll go fist of the northern star on everything

Edited July 7, 2014 by (PS4)CrimsonShinku

[Vargras]

Sounds like more than anything, people liked Overheat because it gave Ember a battlemage feel. I know DE has been trying to recreate that (mostly with Saryn), but it obviously hasn't been at the same level.

[LukeAura]

Sounds like more than anything, people liked Overheat because it gave Ember a battlemage feel. I know DE has been trying to recreate that (mostly with Saryn), but it obviously hasn't been at the same level.

That's pretty much it.

I'm not really sure Saryn will end up as much of a battle mage. 

She's more like a, I guess Nightblade or maybe spellsword would be the best word for it from an MMO/RPG perspective. Dodgy more than stealthy, Strong melee and magic potential, naturally tougher than expected but little of an actual defense.  

[Azawarau]

90% wasn't bad, it's not completely invincible like rhino/valkyr.

 

I liked it for the defense boost, and the bonus that it gave to WoF. It made her more of a tank, like what she looks like.

Valkyr and rhino cant sport near as high DPS with powers as Ember

 

90% damage reduction would also make Ember the tankiest frame in the game

 

Imagine Valkyrs DR on health and shields

 

 It wasn't 90% It was 40%

Power str mods

 

it is a defensive skill, but it helps you defend yourself, not your team-mates or the pod.

And?

 

Not being able to die lets her defend the pod more effectively herself

 

Max range WoF and accelerant makes up for it

[LascarCapable]

Still quite unfitting for a frame who is supposed to be a damage dealer/CC frame. There may be a better way to buff her... Actually iI'm quite sure that there's another way.

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

Still quite unfitting for a frame who is supposed to be a damage dealer/CC frame. There may be a better way to buff her... Actually iI'm quite sure that there's another way.

she's not much crowd control if you ask me, rhino does that better actually and he's far tankier (currently)

 

as said, she had a battlemage feel, magic-based frame that was at home in enemy's faces, the fact that increasing duration now reduces the range of your skills helps even more with that.

[Azawarau]

she's not much crowd control if you ask me, rhino does that better actually and he's far tankier (currently)

 

as said, she had a battlemage feel, magic-based frame that was at home in enemy's faces, the fact that increasing duration now reduces the range of your skills helps even more with that.

Her range and duration are too short to be effective though

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

Her range and duration are too short to be effective though

if we had a skill setup of fireball/accelerant/overheat/world on fire she'd be everything that valkyr wants to be, small range would be helpful since it means WoF would focus on whatever you're attacking, accelerant would lose it's crowd control, but you don't need it because you're far tankier now, and would help the short range WoF.

 

you'd be a heavy unit killer, just get rage and life strike and you're good to go, rage helping with the short duration of skills.

Edited July 7, 2014 by (PS4)CrimsonShinku

[Garuger]

Mix Accelerant with overheat when  it casts it migrate to a cap 50%~60% and at the same time she increases fire damage to ewnemies and stuns . There problem solved a mix of the both worlds 

[Azawarau]

Also @OP

 

The root of Embers issue isnt overheat

 

Its WoF and that useless fire wall

[Paradoxbomb]

Mix Accelerant with overheat when  it casts it migrate to a cap 50%~60% and at the same time she increases fire damage to ewnemies and stuns . There problem solved a mix of the both worlds 

 

Or add the damage reduction effect from Overheat to World on Fire itself (with a cap of 50%-70% of course). Now you basically have old Overheat + WoF combo back and you only have to press one button this time.