Overheat - The Root Of Every Ember Topic

[Amberpaw]

That's subjective. 

...i miss overheat =(

 

the fun of being a flamign demon dragging allys out of an enemy mob and then being a warlock in other MMOs.  aka low armor, high buff, melee smashing.

 

if they bring overheat back, i would understand if they make it melee only.  but i hope they let us use OUR melee. not idiotic fists that miss 3/4 of the time....

[GTG3000]

They could just make it halve damage output and replace fire on fireball and WoF with blast damage while it's on.

[LukeAura]

So 90% DR with constant AOE damage "wasn't really OP"?

 

Uh huh.

It actually wasn't that bad. The AoE range was basically hugging distance, and because it had a fairly limited duration, meaning it was a fair drain on your energy and you were coming out of it every now and then, you could still be whittled down quite easily. Also due to the lack of range and CC Ember had while she had Overheat. She could survive long enough to make her dps matter, but she was never not taking damage while in range of enemies. Corrupted mods really would have broken that balance though. 

Now that's she's kitted up with CC she's playing mostly the same, except with a higher risk for a reward that really is generic to the game. She's capable of high bursts of damage because of how fast the accelerant multiplier works. She can cast her ult, and then turn it in to series of miniature high powered nukes for each 50 energy cast of accelerant. More overhead for the burst, but more efficient if used to its fullest. Which is interesting and unique in and of itself, but it's all in the numbers now, and works  like too much else in terms of gameplay. 

 

[Amberpaw]

It actually wasn't that bad. The AoE range was basically hugging distance, and because it had a fairly limited duration, meaning it was a fair drain on your energy and you were coming out of it every now and then, you could still be whittled down quite easily. Also due to the lack of range and CC Ember had while she had Overheat. She could survive long enough to make her dps matter, but she was never not taking damage while in range of enemies. Corrupted mods really would have broken that balance though. 

Now that's she's kitted up with CC she's playing mostly the same, except with a higher risk for a reward that really is generic to the game. She's capable of high bursts of damage because of how fast the accelerant multiplier works. She can cast her ult, and then turn it in to series of miniature high powered nukes for each 50 energy cast of accelerant. More overhead for the burst, but more efficient if used to its fullest. Which is interesting and unique in and of itself, but it's all in the numbers now, and works  like too much else in terms of gameplay. 

 

plus back then, fireball wasnt any good.  dmg was low, no 100% proc or stagger.   it was just something to shoot, hit something, stay there for a bit damaging any who walked over it.   and die out

 

 

valkyr is basically overheat on 24/7 without the need to worry about energy (which back then, ember ran out of. ALOT.  it was before rage mod became common)

 

also, back then fire dmg was ONLY good on infested.  not grineer.  and armor mitigated the dmg to near nothing.

 

overheat was favored NOT for the dmg res (that wouldnt coem till later)  but for the fact the low fire dmg on it ignored armor like the boltor, bolto, and paris did.

this armor ignore feature was essential if you wanted to kill some bosses at the time that had amazingly OP armor.  and would make you run out of ammo.

 

an example

my friend was out of ammo, and asked me to come in to help him kill the boss. in the time he was hiding w8ing for me, the boss had spawned A FK TON of rollers.

and even i had trouble killing it with my full ammo.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIoeGEG2aHM

 

 

also, back then mobs were idiots

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJxAWJMgMRk

 

 

hell, remember that back then, MODS were very hard to find. why? cause no survival.   xini was our mod farming.  and the drop rate was ALOT lower than it is now

 

 

 

in conclusion. overheat was great back then, but in the current version of the game it wouldnt be anywhere near as effective due to mroe knockdowns, energy drains, smarter AI,  and the armor ignoring feature being removed from all weapons and abilitys.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Amberpaw

[Amberpaw]

 

a look at the old ember.

 

back when fireblast was good

[HackShield]

the Thing about overheat was directly after accelerate was overheat was her ability to walk past infested with wof as also to solo bosses and be a off tank sort of.

 and as fire was only for infested overheat was the only thing for her to melee or fight other factions.

really was a nice ability.

 

but must say after the change to accelerate and a bit of testing i personally like accelrate more.

 

only buff she could use is foreblast god that skill XD but each frame need a skill that isnt useful

Edited July 9, 2014 by HackShield

[Amberpaw]

the Thing about overheat was directly after accelerate was overheat was her ability to walk past infested with wof as also to solo bosses and be a off tank sort of.

 

really was a nice ability.

 

but must say after the change to accelerate and a bit of testing i personally like accelrate more.

 

only buff she could use is foreblast god that skill XD but each frame need a skill that isnt useful

she couldnt walk past infested.

 

overheat didnt prevent disruption, knockdowns, or stuns.

world of fire didnt provide any of that either.

 

now? maybe she can because of how EASY it is to get ANY mod you want.

 

but back then. it was actually pretty dam hard to get mods that didnt drop from infested.

 

infested were the main enemy cause Xini was so popular.  back when no one knew what high level enemys were.

 

 

and no. ember could NOT solo bosses.

NO ONE COULD. their armor stacked so much that (for example, earth's vay hek) would make you run out of ammo and relying on the entire group meleeing non stop.

 

  <- old ember before they buffed all the mod drop rates by 1200x

 

 

 

and keep in mind. back then. the boltor was a rare weapons.

 

most people used the braton. we didnt have penta or crap.

 

the paris/snipetron were the pinnacle of alpha dmg

Edited July 9, 2014 by Amberpaw

[traybong111]

In short, because Overheat made Ember a pretty freaking amazing CQC tanky-mage, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who liked the idea of her NOT being tailored to the stereotype of a squishy glass cannon. 90% dr gave you ability to use her as a DPS frame rather than burst, with her ultimate whittling down enemies around while Overheat allowed you to survive.

 

It wasn't really OP because you could still be stagger-locked and CC'd, and you would get whittled down over time. Well, at least until corrupted mods came along and allowed it to surpass the 91% cap it had previously with only Foc... I mean Intensify. And instead of just adding a 90% hardcap onto it, and maybe some other limiters, like, say, lowered shield regen while under it, or affecting range/damage of other abilities while it's active, Scott decided to trash it alltogether and give us Accelerant.

 

Which was kind of a spit in the face of everyone who already got Ember, because the playstyle she had got thrown out of the window pretty much, to be replaced with a S#&$ty glass cannon that needs to hug her enemies gameplay.

 

So it's not really about Accelerant being that bad, it's about Overheat being a chance for something unique, that got thrown away because Scott felt like it.

 

This. SO MUCH THIS. 

 

Although I really like some suggestions in this thread. Maybe hard-capped Overheat could replace Fireblast with penalty to damage and/or mobility -- you could go as burst mage type with Accelerant, or go as a more tanky type with Overheat. Using Accelerent will automatically cancel Overheat and vice versa. 

 

I also wish Accelerant would grant, however trivial, a speed boost to Ember, just because it sounds like it should. 

[GTG3000]

This. SO MUCH THIS. 

 

Although I really like some suggestions in this thread. Maybe hard-capped Overheat could replace Fireblast with penalty to damage and/or mobility -- you could go as burst mage type with Accelerant, or go as a more tanky type with Overheat. Using Accelerent will automatically cancel Overheat and vice versa. 

 

I also wish Accelerant would grant, however trivial, a speed boost to Ember, just because it sounds like it should. 

 

As I suggested in this thread, the best solution would be to include the ability to select between Accelerant and Overheat, both offering it's upsides (Hight damage + maybe mobility of Accelerant versus high sustain + CC of Overheat) and downsides (squishiness and spammyness of Accelerant build compared to damage on Overheat build being rather secondary). That would really be a step forward in terms of warframe modding, in my opinion.

[Azawarau]

In short, because Overheat made Ember a pretty freaking amazing CQC tanky-mage, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who liked the idea of her NOT being tailored to the stereotype of a squishy glass cannon. 90% dr gave you ability to use her as a DPS frame rather than burst, with her ultimate whittling down enemies around while Overheat allowed you to survive.

 

It wasn't really OP because you could still be stagger-locked and CC'd, and you would get whittled down over time. Well, at least until corrupted mods came along and allowed it to surpass the 91% cap it had previously with only Foc... I mean Intensify. And instead of just adding a 90% hardcap onto it, and maybe some other limiters, like, say, lowered shield regen while under it, or affecting range/damage of other abilities while it's active, Scott decided to trash it alltogether and give us Accelerant.

 

Which was kind of a spit in the face of everyone who already got Ember, because the playstyle she had got thrown out of the window pretty much, to be replaced with a S#&$ty glass cannon that needs to hug her enemies gameplay.

 

So it's not really about Accelerant being that bad, it's about Overheat being a chance for something unique, that got thrown away because Scott felt like it.

It doesnt matter if you cant be CCd

 

Itd make ember survive muh longer than valkyr ever could with AoE damage that rivals novas and long distance CC

 

Thats too much on one frame

[LukeAura]

It doesnt matter if you cant be CCd

 

Itd make ember survive muh longer than valkyr ever could with AoE damage that rivals novas and long distance CC

 

Thats too much on one frame

Only if you're talking about every CC buff to her other skills in order to make up for losing Overheat remaining. Which they probably wouldn't. 

Fireball would no longer procc half the time in the aoe, no more accelerant CC at all, Fireblast would only CC with contact on the ring of fire. 

And all of these are pretty weak in terms of actual CC power as it is.

The only one that could actual protect her fully as a CC would be Fireblast, which is high in cost and short in range and duration. 

 

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

I used Overheat.

 

I can live without it. I prefer to, actually. I don't like having to rely on a single skill to survive.

Still better than not surviving at all, I have a pretty sexy ember prime that i'd love to take on something other than ODD, which i don't even play anymore, T1 def is MUCH better for exp, so, long story short, i don't use ember, and when i do it's full accelerant build with fire ball ignis and fire dragon nikana for the swag.

[Azawarau]

Only if you're talking about every CC buff to her other skills in order to make up for losing Overheat remaining. Which they probably wouldn't. 

Fireball would no longer procc half the time in the aoe, no more accelerant CC at all, Fireblast would only CC with contact on the ring of fire. 

And all of these are pretty weak in terms of actual CC power as it is.

The only one that could actual protect her fully as a CC would be Fireblast, which is high in cost and short in range and duration. 

 

Shed still have much more effective HP than Valkyr and trinity and have more damage than most frames

 

Accelerant is one of her best skills

 

It lets a non scaling damage skill take on things far beyond other skills that dont scale and is a great stun for a bad spot

 

Why would anyone want it removed

[T.B.U.]

Because it's clunky and spammy?

Edited July 10, 2014 by T.B.U.

[GTG3000]

Azawarau, are you even listening to our suggestions?

 

Sure, we already agreed that Accelerant isn't bad,

 

It's one of her best skills solely becaus *drumroll* it brings utility! lots and lots of utility! Just like overheat did, but in a different way! 

 

Overheat was not OP, because you did not have the damage to make it op. Now you have Accelerant that lets your nonscaling damage go way up. If you spam it like crazy.

 

That's why I suggest letting ember have alternative skills - Accelerant for a squishy damagger build and Overheat for a tanky CC-er build.

 

And as for why would anyone want it removed - because it feels clunky to us, with all the spam it requires.

[.Czern]

 

Why would anyone want it removed

Does anybody want to? I think that mayority over here (who want Overheat back) would prefer to have option to swap both skills.

 

Accelerant is indeed very powerful ability and used in right way can be devastating to hi-lvl enemies, but... it's annoying. It actually forces you to build her only for Accelerant spamming if you want to use it regularly. Such focused, short and 1-use buff would be good in a MMO where you have lots of skills, but in Warframe where you have only 4 it feels like crap. I've been trying to use it and I have to admit that it buff damage to awesome numbers (altough stun is always ~1 sec for me) but anyway I don't like it. It feels bad, it looks bad, it's inefficient without specific build. So instead I use Marathon and go on rampage with my Fang Prime ;-)

 

If Overheat is coming back - it should decrease other abilites' damage and range by 50% and it shouldnt have damaging aura anymore.

[Azawarau]

 

 

Does anybody want to? I think that mayority over here (who want Overheat back) would prefer to have option to swap both skills.

 

Accelerant is indeed very powerful ability and used in right way can be devastating to hi-lvl enemies, but... it's annoying. It actually forces you to build her only for Accelerant spamming if you want to use it regularly. Such focused, short and 1-use buff would be good in a MMO where you have lots of skills, but in Warframe where you have only 4 it feels like crap. I've been trying to use it and I have to admit that it buff damage to awesome numbers (altough stun is always ~1 sec for me) but anyway I don't like it. It feels bad, it looks bad, it's inefficient without specific build. So instead I use Marathon and go on rampage with my Fang Prime ;-)

 

If Overheat is coming back - it should decrease other abilites' damage and range by 50% and it shouldnt have damaging aura anymore.

 

The same can be said of Overheat

 

Just build specifically for Overheat and spam it

 

You know with a power like that noones not going to use it

 

So whats your point then? How much it has to be spammed? Spam is spam

[.Czern]

The same can be said of Overheat

 

Just build specifically for Overheat and spam it

Not really. Overheat's basic damage reduction of 40% and base duration of 20 seconds would be enough for many people.

 

You know with a power like that noones not going to use it

So?

 

So whats your point then? How much it has to be spammed? Spam is spam

You have to use Accelerant for every next group of enemies, while Overheat has certain duration.... 

[Break-Away]

The same can be said of Overheat

 

Just build specifically for Overheat and spam it

 

You know with a power like that noones not going to use it

 

So whats your point then? How much it has to be spammed? Spam is spam

You don't spam a duration based ability... 

[LukeAura]

Shed still have much more effective HP than Valkyr and trinity and have more damage than most frames

Valkyr has health regain, and invincibility, and large amounts of damage because. Potentially infinite is less than about 15 thousand? 

That much health was balanced by the lack of CC meaning she was constantly being damage at any given point. No one was calling it OP when it existed either.

CC heavy frames were still preferable to Ember when she had Overheat at 90% reduction. 

Edited July 10, 2014 by LukeAura

[Azawarau]

You don't spam a duration based ability... 

Tell that to blessing and iron skin and warcry/hysteria and bastille and vortex and snowglobe...

 

Do i need to go on to prove you wrong?

 

 

 

Valkyr has health regain, and invincibility, and large amounts of damage because. Potentially infinite is less than about 15 thousand? 

That much health was balanced by the lack of CC meaning she was constantly being damage at any given point. No one was calling it OP when it existed either.

CC heavy frames were still preferable to Ember when she had Overheat at 90% reduction. 

Throw a melee weapon with life strike on ember and you have your health regain

 

Valkyr becomes useless spamming hysteria long before warcry buff and ember would be tougher than that with AoE damage

 

90% damage on top of regening shields and infinite healing is not something you should take so lightly

 

Shell be taking on 50 minutes of any defense or survival face tanking while reviving trinitys

 

Thats wrong

Edited July 10, 2014 by Azawarau

[Amberpaw]

Tell that to blessing and iron skin and warcry/hysteria and bastille and vortex and snowglobe...

 

Do i need to go on to prove you wrong?

 

 

 

Throw a melee weapon with life strike on ember and you have your health regain

 

Valkyr becomes useless spamming hysteria long before warcry buff and ember would be tougher than that with AoE damage

 

90% damage on top of regening shields and infinite healing is not something you should take so lightly

 

Shell be taking on 50 minutes of any defense or survival face tanking while reviving trinitys

 

Thats wrong

you have a point there.  but remember overheat doesnt prevent knockdowns, energy disruptions or such.

 

i think the OP part of it was the dmg res effect affected her shields.

 

capping overheat at 60% and making it not affect shields would probably bring it in line (she would essentially have hte armor of rhino/saryn/frost.  but instead of having it naturally, she'd be spendign energy on it)

[Azawarau]

Azawarau, are you even listening to our suggestions?

 

Sure, we already agreed that Accelerant isn't bad,

 

It's one of her best skills solely becaus *drumroll* it brings utility! lots and lots of utility! Just like overheat did, but in a different way! 

 

Overheat was not OP, because you did not have the damage to make it op. Now you have Accelerant that lets your nonscaling damage go way up. If you spam it like crazy.

 

That's why I suggest letting ember have alternative skills - Accelerant for a squishy damagger build and Overheat for a tanky CC-er build.

 

And as for why would anyone want it removed - because it feels clunky to us, with all the spam it requires.

Missed this one

 

The person i directly quoted , which wasnt you by the way, said No Accelerant which is why i brought it up so you or we or whoever you think im talking about has nothing to do with you or what you agree on

 

you have a point there.  but remember overheat doesnt prevent knockdowns, energy disruptions or such.

 

i think the OP part of it was the dmg res effect affected her shields.

 

capping overheat at 60% and making it not affect shields would probably bring it in line (she would essentially have hte armor of rhino/saryn/frost.  but instead of having it naturally, she'd be spendign energy on it)

If shes going to have that much damage she wont be balanced with being tankier than rhino

 

You remove her CC and she loses massive damage to become a mediocre flame tank

[-CM-Crazy]

Overheat's removal had nothing to do with strength. It didn't belong on a glass cannon. I fully expect that it'll make a comeback in some form or another when neutral abilities are put in, and Ember can go right back to using it.

 

If Overheat was too strong, it wasn't because of just damage reduction but because it got so much out of one modifier. Power strength gave it damage AND damage reduction. That's a big no-no in game balance IMO. People don't think of it as a damage skill, but it did more damage to more targets than fire blast's fire ring did, which at the time was considerable.

The thing is she isn't a glass cannon, she is just glass

[Azamagon]

There's a way to please everyone:

 

1) Merge (with numerical balance of course) Fireball and Fire Blast (Think: Ranged Fire Blast!)

2) Add Overheat (and rebalance it in whatever fitting way) in the missing slot

 

Tadaaaa! :)