SquirmyBurrito Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 The skana existed before it's dual varient, the heat sword existed before it's dual varient. Their dual varient still does not need nor require the single varient. Therefor Dual skana prime can exist and not need or require the single version. Please refer to my list. Fang prime Fang akstilleto Twin gremlins Dual skana aklato dual zoren dual ether daggers dual ichor Nami Skyla (single didn't exist when it was released) Dual cleavers Dual ether Dual heat swords Care to guess what these weapons all have in common? All the ones underlined do not have singer versions, therefore the idea of them requiring their single version to build doesn't make sense. Please use your brain. They've changed crafting costs before, many of the weapons that have weapons in their crafting cost didn't have them at first. If it was an actual rule or precedent that must be followed they would have put it in there as a part of the crafting recipe. Which ones didn't have singles in their crafting recipe but had that changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaresin Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 "Hey, why not release Twin Excalibur Prime? He'll be the first ever dual Warframe, and it's totally okay because one exclusive plus one exclusive equals a-okay." That really doesn't make sense.....bad analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 That really doesn't make sense.....bad analogy. I was half-serious. A twin warframe would be kinda cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Please refer to my list. All the ones underlined do not have singer versions, therefore the idea of them requiring their single version to build doesn't make sense. Please use your brain. Which ones didn't have singles in their crafting recipe but had that changed? Pretty much all the older dual secondaries prior to the rework of their blue prints. Also, aklato required 2 latos for a short time but they reverted it back to credit only. I was half-serious. A twin warframe would be kinda cool. As an actual twin, I half disagree :/ Edited July 10, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaresin Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 The updates are fairly consistent with dates. Every wednesday unless it's major or something went wrong. Actually we have been off on that before and lost consistency the recent event date went out on a thursday. content updates tends to jump all over the place. They add something then go back and fix something from several patches ago or bring it more in line with the game of how they see it with no real discernable way to figure out what system is in the priority list and where in that list it stands. Their decisions constantly shift in many things. Things they promise, never come to pass (take a look at vegitablebasket's google doc for ideas). Yeah...they are consistant at being inconsistent, that isn't a good thing. I get artists are flighty and tend to flip between projects often, but this is kind of a new level. Sorry to take it off topic but felt I had to respond to that comment to back up my statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaresin Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) I was half-serious. A twin warframe would be kinda cool. I would prefer one that could make a mirror copy of itself similar to how Zed performs in LoL. anywho back on topic. Edited July 10, 2014 by Zaresin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Pretty much all the older dual secondaries. Aklato required 2 latos for a short time but they reverted it back to credit only. As an actual twin, I half disagree :/ Huh, I wouldn't know about that. I don't know where to go to double check that. lol, identical or fraternal? I'm just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Huh, I wouldn't know about that. I don't know where to go to double check that. lol, identical or fraternal? I'm just curious. I only remember because I had to craft aklato with latos back when I was recrafting it for mastery after having trashed it ages ago. Not interested in digging up patch notes atm. It was probably sometime around update 7 or so. Also, pretty much all weapons (with the strange exception of the afuris which was plat only for a while) could be purchased for credits prior to the introduction of blue prints. Fraternal. Edited July 10, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom_Bunny Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Not a rule, but it is a precedent. Nami Skyla was released before its single variant was released. Please explain how it could have possibly required its single variant as part of its crafting recipe when its single variant didn't exist when it was initially released. DE would have had to go back and change the recipe for that to work. If I've quoted this ^ it usualy mean I'm talking about this ^. You say that because Nami's single version was released arfter the dual version that it does not apply to this situation. Well I just gave you two examples that do apply to this situation because their single version was out before their dual. I have proven that in this situation DE has not made the recipe to require the single version. The only other melee weapon in this situation is dual kamas the only weapon of the three to require it's single version. I believe that is 2/1. Edited July 10, 2014 by Postal_pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeyoWargear Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Let us look at the Dual Skanas' Codex entry: A shorter Skana in each hand. Can hit multiple targets. If DE applied the same logic to Dual Skana Prime. It would look like this: A shorter Skana Prime in each hand. Can hit multiple targets. Based on the Codex entry, it's just a shortened copy and paste job from singular to dual. Now, let us look at the AkLato Codex entry: A Lato equipped in each hand. Twice the clip size and fire rate, but reload time is doubled and accuracy is lowered. DE applies same logic to AkLato Prime: A Lato Prime equipped in each hand. Twice the clip size and fire rate, but reload time is doubled and accuracy is lowered. It's just a copy and paste job. For the Dual Skana Prime, it'd just be a shortened Skana Prime in each hand. For the AkLato Prime, it's just a Lato Prime in each hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I only remember because I had to craft aklato with latos back when I was recrafting it for mastery after having trashed it ages ago. Not interested in digging up patch notes atm. It was probably sometime around update 7 or so. Also, pretty much all weapons (with the strange exception of the afuris which was plat only for a while) could be purchased for credits prior to the introduction of blue prints. Fraternal. Cool, thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) If I've quoted this ^ it usualy mean I'm talking about this ^. You say that because Nami's single version was released arfter the dual version that it does not apply to this situation. Well I just gave you two examples that do apply to this situation because their single version was out before their dual. I have proven that in this situation DE has not made the recipe to require the single version. The only other melee weapon in this situation is dual kamas the only weapon of the three to require it's single version. I believe that is 2/1. There are more than just 3 dual weapons. Try again. Dual Ether was released before the Ether sword. Same thing applies to the Dual Heat Swords and the Heat Sword. The kama is one of the few examples (maybe only) of a melee weapon that had its single version come out first, and be followed by a dual version... and it requires two singles to build the dual. Edited July 10, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Let us look at the Dual Skanas' Codex entry: A shorter Skana in each hand. Can hit multiple targets. If DE applied the same logic to Dual Skana Prime. It would look like this: A shorter Skana Prime in each hand. Can hit multiple targets. Based on the Codex entry, it's just a shortened copy and paste job from singular to dual. Now, let us look at the AkLato Codex entry: A Lato equipped in each hand. Twice the clip size and fire rate, but reload time is doubled and accuracy is lowered. DE applies same logic to AkLato Prime: A Lato Prime equipped in each hand. Twice the clip size and fire rate, but reload time is doubled and accuracy is lowered. It's just a copy and paste job. For the Dual Skana Prime, it'd just be a shortened Skana Prime in each hand. For the AkLato Prime, it's just a Lato Prime in each hand. You realize that codex entries are just lore, right? That's what it is in the game world. Here on the other side of the fourth wall, dual variants are treated as separate products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeyoWargear Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 You're calling it lore and doesn't that kind of make it fact? I don't know about you, but I take lore as fact. If it's in the Codex, it's probably fact. When was the last time a Codex entry lied to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 You realize that codex entries are just lore, right? That's what it is in the game world. Here on the other side of the fourth wall, dual variants are treated as separate products. It would be smarter for DE to simply release a dual Skana dragon/dex and go with that. Rather than step on the toes/spit in the face of all the founders who bought grand master (or whatever tier it is that gives out the skana prime). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) You're calling it lore and doesn't that kind of make it fact? I don't know about you, but I take lore as fact. If it's in the Codex, it's probably fact. When was the last time a Codex entry lied to you? Lore can and is written to suit whatever purpose it is meant to suit. It changes for DE's business model, not the other way around. Same with crafting costs. Edited July 10, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 It would be smarter for DE to simply release a dual Skana dragon/dex and go with that. Rather than step on the toes/spit in the face of all the founders who bought grand master (or whatever tier it is that gives out the skana prime). How has this not been brought up yet?? Founders get to keep their exclusives, and everyone else gets their super special dual skanas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeyoWargear Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I really thought for the 1st year anniversary for Warframe, DE was going to release Skana Dex, Lato Dex, and/or Braton Dex, but (A)Furis Dex? Okay, DE, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaresin Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) You're calling it lore and doesn't that kind of make it fact? I don't know about you, but I take lore as fact. If it's in the Codex, it's probably fact. When was the last time a Codex entry lied to you? As we have seen, lore is inconsistent and easily changed. We can thank the "Beta" tag for that. Never take lore at face value when it is constantly changing as it has been. Once the game is out of beta then you can prob take it for its word but I personally would only take it as a grain of salt. DE tends to be fickle about how they treat lore and consistently do things. I blame the lack of oversight that a publisher would provide. A game of this size requires structure and I personally feel Warframe lacks that on a fundamental level. So until things change or they become more consistent in how they handle changes and things have a more set standard on build path (ie 2 singles to make a double or 2 blades and 2 handles to make a double) don't rely on patterns as there are none currently. It is more a hodge podge of design ideas melded together. And the codex has been wrong before. Edited July 10, 2014 by Zaresin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) There are more than just 3 dual weapons. Try again. Dual Ether was released before the Ether sword. Same thing applies to the Dual Heat Swords and the Heat Sword. The kama is one of the few examples (maybe only) of a melee weapon that had its single version come out first, and be followed by a dual version... and it requires two singles to build the dual. Dual heatswords were added in update 6.2 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/9532-update-6-hotfix-62/ The heat sword has been in the game since well before that and was originally a drop off ambulas. How has this not been brought up yet?? Founders get to keep their exclusives, and everyone else gets their super special dual skanas It's a concession to a non existent right of exclusivity. DE shouldn't have to cave to founders over this. They were never made any promises about dual variants. Edited July 10, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeyoWargear Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) True, true, lore does change a lot. Still, if DE did make Dual Skana Prime and AkLato Prime, I don't know how they'd cover their backs with the Codex entry. "How do we explain this without angering anyone?" But yes to Dex Skana, Dex Lato, and even Dex Braton. Edited July 10, 2014 by NeyoWargear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaresin Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 True, true, lore does change a lot. Still, if DE did make Dual Skana Prime and AkLato Prime, I don't know how they'd cover their backs with the Codex entry. "How do we explain this without angering anyone?" But yes to Dex Skana, Dex Lato, and even Dex Braton. no matter the choice taken, someone is going to be unhappy. The question DE will have to answer is, "Do we anger a continually shrinking portion of the community that is actually very small, or do we anger the continued growing population of the community". Which one will bring them great money in the end. Marketing will have the final say on this rather than the devs as money pays a greater roll in their design decisions than people actually think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom_Bunny Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 There are more than just 3 dual weapons. Try again. Dual Ether was released before the Ether sword. Same thing applies to the Dual Heat Swords and the Heat Sword. The kama is one of the few examples (maybe only) of a melee weapon that had its single version come out first, and be followed by a dual version... and it requires two singles to build the dual. Dual skana, Dual heat swords and Dual kamas are the only ones in this situation. That situation being that their single version came out before their dual version. Go check it. Now out of those three that are in this situation only one uses their single varient to make their dual. Which we already know is dual kamas. So in this situation (that dual skana prime is currently in) DE can be seen to have taken the route of not including their single version in the making of their dual version more times then including it. Please use your brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) no matter the choice taken, someone is going to be unhappy. The question DE will have to answer is, "Do we anger a continually shrinking portion of the community that is actually very small, or do we anger the continued growing population of the community". Which one will bring them great money in the end. Marketing will have the final say on this rather than the devs as money pays a greater roll in their design decisions than people actually think. This is something that people love to gloss over. Founders might get angry, but out of the millions of players of which founders make up a tiny tiny minority, and gm and master founders make an even tinier minority, how many people do you really think would be happy if they knew for sure that that they were getting denied content on the basis of a promise that never actually happened? Edited July 10, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeyoWargear Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Indeed, DE will take the business approach (more money), but I'd wait a while. I don't see myself quitting Warframe, but if Dual Skana Prime and/or AkLato Prime were to be added, I'd wait a WHILE. I wouldn't mind, but then I'd just be some old player telling new ones of days of old. I already feel old in this game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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