Will Amd Users Ever Get To Use Physx?

[aleco247]

I really hate it how I can't use physX just cause Nividia owns it. My GPU can easily run it too.

[Renathy]

Wait until AMD comes up with something.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Probaby not, because...

 

can't use physX just cause Nividia owns it. 

 

But hopefully there will be some sort of substitute in the future.

[Clasbyte]

Probaly not.

[Zweibach]

Heh, this is sorta amusing. Use PhysX, current console generation is all AMD.

[Fraank]

You need Physix for some games. even with AMD.

[Magicfingers]

nope...amd will never get to use it because it is a Nvidia thing and Nvidia refuses to share with AMD.

[zavienh5]

nope...amd will never get to use it because it is a Nvidia thing and Nvidia refuses to share with AMD.

yep

[DarkDataStorm]

AMD and Intel users can easily run Physx in games if the developers allow it. DE refuses to do so

[AsagiBoogers]

nope...amd will never get to use it because it is a Nvidia thing and Nvidia refuses to share with AMD.

 

But they already kinda have. Xbox One and PS4 both have PhysX support, which use AMD GPUs.

[CelticMoss]

AMD and Intel users can easily run Physx in games if the developers allow it. DE refuses to do so

No they can't AMD doesn't have PhysX software so unless DE wants to make a costly and time eating plan of force Phyx for AMD no it won't happen

[CelticMoss]

But they already kinda have. Xbox One and PS4 both have PhysX support, which use AMD GPUs.

that's cause it's on the CPU not the GPU

[SchrodingersKitteh]

DE don't have a say in this, it is likely in the contract with Nvidia that is it not allowed to be ran on systems with an AMD gpu.

 

Oh and as the above poster pointed out while the new consoles do have it, it is all ran on the CPU runtimes instead of the GPU runtimes, Also Nvidia have an agreement with both M$ and Sony regarding the XB1 and PS4 and how physx is being handled.

Edited July 11, 2014 by SchrodingersKitteh

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

It's supposed to exist on (....gasp) PS4...  I bought a PS4 before getting my GTX780s in hopes of seeing PhysX for Warframe on PS4, but it wasn't really there.  =/

[Shehriazad]

There are already substitutes that could be used as a replacement that are owned by AMD.


For this to work out correctly DE would have to think about implementing Mantle...which wouldn't be a bad thing either way...All AMD hardware would receive a major boost and things like TressFX and other physics applications would be easily used by AMD hardware.

A 2nd reason for Mantle would be that Intel has officially asked to get access to Mantle since they're interested in it. (Since Mantle is an opt-in for every hardware vendor...open platform...the thing only AMD always does it seems...)


Why I mentioned Intel? HD4000 is the most used "graphics card" by WF players ;p

Edited July 11, 2014 by Shehriazad

[EHDERCOOLSTE]

just put your old nvidia card back into your pc, works for me using an hd7870 + gtx260

[Letter13]

AMD and Intel users can easily run Physx in games if the developers allow it. DE refuses to do so

Incorrect. AMD and Intel users can only run the watered down version of PhysX. 

 

More advanced PhysX effects require an Nvidia GPU with CUDA architecture, because the amount of floating point calculations (especially square-root and exponentials) required would utterly cripple a CPU. The reason why GPUs can run these sorts of equations with no real problem is because graphics processing already uses a lot of vector calculations which use more or less the same arithmetic operations as physics calculations.

 

Now, that isn't to say that AMD GPUs *can't* run these sorts of equations, but Nvidia PhysX utilizes special hardware instructions that are only available on Nvidia CUDA GPUs. Hardware accelerated PhysX literally runs special hardware instructions at the transistor logic level, and AMD/Intel chipsets do not have this specialized transistor logic architecture.

 

Nvidia would have to completely re-write the hardware accelerated PhysX libraries to allow it to run on AMD's architecture, and they simply don't feel like doing it. It's their technology.

 

 

That said....DE really SHOULD think about future implementation of Mantle...especially now that Intel is showing interest in it (and if Im not mistaken one of the most used graphics cards here is Intel HD4000...)

The reason Intel is showing interest in it is because it's just another API like DirectX or OpenGL. Even Nvidia has expressed interest in it if only for having it run on their GPUs (like DirectX and OpenGL does).

 

That being said, to me it seems mostly like Mantle is just this hyped up thing, like what Crysis was trying to do with DirectX 10 (and we all know how that went).

 

What it really comes down to is the fact that Mantle is sort of AMD's rather late response to CUDA. All of the super-advanced mantle features will be restricted to AMD GPUs, just like the advanced PhysX effects are limited to Nvidia GPUs.

 

I can guarantee you that AMD will not allow Intel or Nvidia to design chipsets or GPUs designed to run hardware accelerated Mantle effects. They're a for-profit company, and releasing that tech would hurt their profits.

[Rakuall]

Get an nVidia card if it's so important to run physX? That's why companies develop proprietary software, launch games exclusive to their platform, or do anything really. To make sales from people wanting that elxclusive feature or game.

[DarkDataStorm]

No they can't AMD doesn't have PhysX software so unless DE wants to make a costly and time eating plan of force Phyx for AMD no it won't happen

this does not make much sense

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

There are already substitutes that could be used as a replacement that are owned by AMD.

But it would likely mean that DE has to implement Mantle...but since Nvidia has their fingers in this game this does not seem likely.

TressFX and Mantle could enable many things in this game...but heh.... as long as Nvidia is a company that unlike AMD is all about being selfish with their tech and tries to stay as exclusive as possible....don't ever think about this.

That said....DE really SHOULD think about future implementation of Mantle...especially now that Intel is showing interest in it (and if Im not mistaken one of the most used graphics cards here is Intel HD4000...)

 

What mantle does and what PhysX does are two completely different things.

 

Mantle is a low level API which sort of allows games to bypass an API like DirectX and work directly with the graphics hardware.  The goal is to reduce CPU overhead and improve performance.

 

PhysX is a physics/particle processing acceleration system that's proprietary to Nvidia GPUs and specifically coded to work on CUDA cores in Nvidia hardware.

 

EDIT:  the mantle information I found is here:  http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/mantle#overview

 

"What Mantle does:

 

Mantle is the harmony of three essential ingredients:

 

-A driver within the AMD Catalyst™ software suite that lets applications speak directly to the Graphics Core Next architecture;

 

-A GPU or APU enabled with the Graphics Core Next architecture;

 

-An application or game written to take advantage of Mantle.

 

Mantle reduces the CPU’s workload by giving developers a way to talk to the GPU directly with much less translation. With less work for the CPU to do, programmers can squeeze much more performance from a system, delivering the greatest benefits in gaming systems where the CPU can be the bottleneck."

Edited July 11, 2014 by sushidubya

[Rhundis]

I have an HD 7800 so I was kind of hoping to get shiny effects seeing as this is my first "built" PC.

[Shehriazad]

What mantle does and what PhysX does are two completely different things.

 

Mantle is a low level API which sort of allows games to bypass an API like DirectX and work directly with the graphics hardware.  The goal is to reduce CPU overhead and improve performance.

 

PhysX is a physics/particle processing acceleration system that's proprietary to Nvidia GPUs and specifically coded to work on CUDA cores in Nvidia hardware.

Blah blah blah. Look at Mantle demos that show massive amounts of particles and particle physics being thrown around. This would be too slow in DX9/11. 

Try to inform yourself a tiny bit more about Mantle. Yes it is a lowlevel API that boosts performance...but is also a way to make TressFX and particle physics work without killing your hardware.

The only reason why you can't use PhysX with non Nvidia hardware is because it destroys CPUs performance wise...with Mantle this is not the case...especially with GCN being able to take some of those workloads.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Shehriazad

[DarkDataStorm]

Incorrect. AMD and Intel users can only run the watered down version of PhysX. 

 

More advanced PhysX effects require an Nvidia GPU with CUDA architecture, because the amount of floating point calculations (especially square-root and exponentials) required would utterly cripple a CPU. The reason why GPUs can run these sorts of equations with no real problem is because graphics processing already uses a lot of vector calculations which use more or less the same arithmetic operations as physics calculations.

 

Now, that isn't to say that AMD GPUs *can't* run these sorts of equations, but Nvidia PhysX utilizes special hardware instructions that are only available on Nvidia CUDA GPUs. Hardware accelerated PhysX literally runs special hardware instructions at the transistor logic level, and AMD/Intel chipsets do not have this specialized transistor logic architecture.

 

Nvidia would have to completely re-write the hardware accelerated PhysX libraries to allow it to run on AMD's architecture, and they simply don't feel like doing it. It's their technology.

You tell me to be incorrect and go on with incorrect statements?

 

It looks like you completely listen to the marketing/pr info nvidia spreads. physx is just an engine, anything can ran a piece of software if the developer wouldn't b#tch around so much. 

 

Unless DE is not allowed to make physx run in software mode, it is only a matter of pressure by the players to make them implement this feature.

[Shehriazad]

You tell me to be incorrect and go on with incorrect statements?

 

It looks like you completely listen to the marketing/pr info nvidia spreads. physx is just an engine, anything can ran a piece of software if the developer wouldn't b#tch around so much. 

 

Unless DE is not allowed to make physx run in software mode, it is only a matter of pressure by the players to make them implement this feature.

This guy is right.

If you look up some recent Mantle demos you will see insane amounts of particles/particle physics being thrown around. This is possible because the Mantle API reduces overhead so much and also allows GCN architecture to take over certain workloads that realtime physics simulation does not need to be done by a bajillion units like on a nvidia gpu.

The only reason why particle physics via CPU are not a thing is because the most used APIs are too bad for it.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Shehriazad

[DietEbolaCola]

Letter13 is wise. Listen to him.