Debunking The Myth That Is Pay To Win

[Octoknightx]

So we all know those people that like to call every game with a market p2w. Now I admit there are some games which give incredible power to players that pay, but do they win? For a game to be p2w the player would have to be able to buy something that let's him win the game. But THERE IS NO SUCH THING.

 

If a player buys a gun that can kill everyone instantly it is still not p2w. It's not like the player CAN'T die. He just can kill you the moment he sees you. It isn't an instant win the game button. But it is an instant kill that guy button. But anyone with skill could kill this guy from behind.

 

If a player buys some kind of armor than protects him from tons of damage, it is not p2w. He still isn't "winning" the game. He still needs to DO something to WIN. Anyone could just dump bullets on him and wait till he dies.

 

Now let's look at TF2. Some people love to call this game p2w. Now we all know that is false. The stock weapons are the BEST weapons in the game for all situations. You give up your effectiveness in one situation to specialize in another with other weapons.

 

Now there are tons of other free to play games that let you buy DIRECT UPGRADES that can murder everyone on sight. The weapon with the highest price is obviously better. Same with buying armor. You buy the highest priced armor and you clearly live longer. But this does not mean you WIN.

 

As I said, for a game to be p2w there would have to be an item in their market that the player could use to win the game. But I have yet to even hear of such a game so p2w is a total lie.

 

Now let's look at Warframe. Warframe is mostly a co-op game with some pvp in conclaves and dojo duels and future pvp as seen in devstream. Now I will say this flat out. There is no pay to win in a co-op game, there is pay to kill everything, there is pay to last forever, but there is no pay to win. It takes some skill to win. And anyway who CARES if you bought your extreme power with money. It's not like you are harming anyone buy buying stuff. It is CO-OP.

 

So in Warframe, you can buy guns and warframes. But the guns that you can buy mostly suck except a few good ones. And you can build them all anyway. But here is the point everyone loves to point out when calling Warframe pay to win: Slots. Slots are not pay to win. Slots don't limit your ability to kill an enemy. If you want a better gun sell that Braton you got lying around and make that Penta. If you want a better warframe sell that crap Banshee you got in your closet(inb4 uwotm8bansheemasterrace ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)). And anyway with trading you can get FREE, yes FREE, platinum. I have never seen any game, EVER let you TRADE for currency that you would have to buy with real money. This is what makes Warframe so great. You want that Pyra Sugatra(Yes DE please make a Pyra Sugatra for my Dragon Nikana ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)) go sell that Heavy Caliber you found. You want a slot for Boltor Prime? Go sell your Loki Prime parts.

 

So even if paying gave you unlimited power you are never UNBEATABLE. Companies that love to sell power like to make it seem like the players can still win without paying to keep their players from rioting. So they limit the power you can buy as close as they can to the line of literally paying to win the game but they don't cross it. So please, NEVER EVER CALL A GAME PAY TO WIN. Sure a game me be horribly unfair but you are using the wrong term. The right term would be pay to wreck or pay to kill, etc.

 

So please...no more pay to win. Thank you and goodnight.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Octoknightx

[Zaresin]

Oh god no....not this again.

What bee got in your bonnet that pushed you to make this thread?

To OP: please learn the meaning of pay to win.

If you can pay something and it gives you a statistical advantage that can only be obtained by paying over someone that has not paid anything in a game, then you have pay to win.

Example: in reign of dragons (ios/android mobile app) with events you can spend money to refresh your "stamina" to attack sooner and win a match when if you didn't pay you would have to wait some time (an hour usually) and by then the match in GvG would be done. Rough description of what went on. That is pay to win. Top ranked guilds payed thousands of dollars to win events with the rarest cards going to those guilds and those that didn't pay anything would barely rank if they even managed at all essentially getting nothing.

In warframe, nothing you can get by money effects what you can get for free as you can get it from both places. Confused on how you would think otherwise. Nothing you get for money has a statistical value over someone that gets it for free. Please provide examples of how someone that payed money has one over someone that is free to play. (Founders and CBT are an exception and can be fixed by an overhawl of the mastery rank system which it desperately needs).

But I have to ask, why did you bring up this topic again?

Edited July 12, 2014 by Zaresin

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

You are making your own definition. The definition of P2W, is to buy an item that is more powerful than another person, who hadn't paid, could get.

Edited July 12, 2014 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII

[Octoknightx]

TL;DR there is no such thing as pay to win. And clearly if you were able to respond this fast you didn't read anything. If you did you wouldn't have made these comments.

[BrotherIcarus]

Pay to win is simply were if a player pays he has a distinct and tangible advantage over a player who has not paid.

 

Why is it bad because it is unfair. Maybe you can argue that that matter a lot less in a PvE game but is a huge no in a game with PvP.

Edited July 12, 2014 by BrotherIcarus

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

TL;DR there is no such thing as pay to win. And clearly if you were able to respond this fast you didn't read anything. If you did you wouldn't have made these comments.

I read the whole thing before commenting.

[Octoknightx]

Pay to win is simply were if a player pays he has a distinct and tangible advantage over a player who has not paid.

But that is not pay to WIN. That is pay to KILL.

[Katakuna]

But that is not pay to WIN. That is pay to KILL.

 

Well gee, in games that are all about killing, I wonder how you win.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

But that is not pay to WIN. That is pay to KILL.

Again, you are trying to change the definition of a term. People understand P2W doesn't literally mean winning, but it certainly makes it a whole lot easier.

[DietEbolaCola]

The F2P model is about paying for cosmetics or convenience. Anything that falls outside of that that cannot be earned in game without paying is considered P2W. Most games are pay2whine or play2whine.

[Alphafox]

Well gee, in games that are all about killing, I wonder how you win.

You hug them very tightly.. till they die. Oh crap, that's a kill too.

[BrotherIcarus]

But that is not pay to WIN. That is pay to KILL.

I am sorry do you want to spout more nonsense about the technicality that is its name?

[Octoknightx]

Ok lets look at it this way. Planetside 2. Planetside 2 has guns that are obviously better and can be bought for real money. You can also buy attachments. So if some noob buys the "best"(for him) gun and buys all the attachments he wants he "could" potentially kill easier, but he doesn't simply win. There are tons of other players to deal with for just one guy with a shiny new gun to just win. He has to capture a control point in the middle of a huge battle raging, he is going to lose no matter what. Now after experience even a somewhat good player could start a new character and wreck everything in sight with stock weapons. But the problem for new players is that they don't have those "direct upgrades" like resistance to explosives or small arms(bought with in-game currency, not money) or used real money to get less recoil on their guns. But even with those upgrades you are still going to die, you will just survive ONE more bullet. Yet people love to call it pay to win. So yes players have an advantage...but it isn't pay to win.

 

Also...Blacklight: Retribution. I literally have nothing but all stock and still wreck. That is if I ever play that horrible game...( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

So maybe my post was a waste..and I shoulda just said to use a different term. Because you aren't winning. So just use pay to kill from now on or whatever sounds good.

[Octoknightx]

And btw...this game isn't about killing that cool looking dude next to you...is about killing those guys with crap guns and call you skuum.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

So maybe my post was a waste..and I shoulda just said to use a different term. Because you aren't winning. So just use pay to kill from now on or whatever sounds good.

TBH, P2W sounds good to me.

[Tyranti]

On another briefly mentioned topic, I personally know of two F2P MMO's that allow you to trade for the premium currency, given that you make lots of in-game currency, which is pretty similar to leveling these rare mods to max with exorbitant amounts of cores for some sick shiny dosh.

Those two are Rift and Neverwinter Online. There's probably more because this is becoming more common in F2P games.

 

The only thing you can buy to win in Warframe is style. ;D

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

On another briefly mentioned topic, I personally know of two F2P MMO's that allow you to trade for the premium currency, given that you make lots of in-game currency, which is pretty similar to leveling these rare mods to max with exorbitant amounts of cores for some sick shiny dosh.

Those two are Rift and Neverwinter Online. There's probably more because this is becoming more common in F2P games.

 

The only thing you can buy to win in Warframe is style. ;D

Those fashion contests are undeniably lightshows of color explosion.

[Octoknightx]

Those fashion contests are undeniably lightshows of color explosion.

So smexy

[Alphafox]

Ok lets look at it this way. Planetside 2. Planetside 2 has guns that are obviously better and can be bought for real money. You can also buy attachments. So if some noob buys the "best"(for him) gun and buys all the attachments he wants he "could" potentially kill easier, but he doesn't simply win. There are tons of other players to deal with for just one guy with a shiny new gun to just win. He has to capture a control point in the middle of a huge battle raging, he is going to lose no matter what. Now after experience even a somewhat good player could start a new character and wreck everything in sight with stock weapons. But the problem for new players is that they don't have those "direct upgrades" like resistance to explosives or small arms(bought with in-game currency, not money) or used real money to get less recoil on their guns. But even with those upgrades you are still going to die, you will just survive ONE more bullet. Yet people love to call it pay to win. So yes players have an advantage...but it isn't pay to win.

 

Also...Blacklight: Retribution. I literally have nothing but all stock and still wreck. That is if I ever play that horrible game...( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

So maybe my post was a waste..and I shoulda just said to use a different term. Because you aren't winning. So just use pay to kill from now on or whatever sounds good.

Just a question like that. What was the point of that thread?(I want to be sure to understand your point.)

[10twenty4]

In a sense, Warframe sort of is pay to win. The only kind of progression; the only "victory" condition we have at the moment is obtaining new frames and weapons to grind, and you can pay to skip the grinding to obtain them.

 

So I guess more accurately, it's pay to not play. Which is kind of even more ridiculous.

 

 

Also OP, stop arguing dumb semantics.

[Zaresin]

On another briefly mentioned topic, I personally know of two F2P MMO's that allow you to trade for the premium currency, given that you make lots of in-game currency, which is pretty similar to leveling these rare mods to max with exorbitant amounts of cores for some sick shiny dosh.

Those two are Rift and Neverwinter Online. There's probably more because this is becoming more common in F2P games.

 

The only thing you can buy to win in Warframe is style. ;D

You can do it on most games that have game cards for their currency. Most TOS allow it.

[Vexxie]

Mince words all you want, on the internet Pay To Win actually means Buying The Advantage. Plain and simple. Just saying it doesn't literally mean buying a win is just asking for a big old flame off. In the end it doesn't matter what you call it, it's just plain despicable business that just detriments the game in the long run. 

[Alphafox]

In a sense, Warframe sort of is pay to win. The only kind of progression; the only "victory" condition we have at the moment is obtaining new frames and weapons to grind, and you can pay to skip the grinding to obtain them.

 

So I guess more accurately, it's pay to not play. Which is kind of even more ridiculous.

 

 

Also OP, stop arguing dumb semantics.

More like Pay2SaveTime or w/e you want to name it.

[Octoknightx]

Mince words all you want, on the internet Pay To Win actually means Buying The Advantage. Plain and simple. Just saying it doesn't literally mean buying a win is just asking for a big old flame off. In the end it doesn't matter what you call it, it's just plain despicable business that just detriments the game in the long run. 

Thank you Mr. Goat Dictionary ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).

[DirkDeadeye]

Pay to win, faster? yes.

 

But we have trading now. And as long as you can make it to earth's defense missions..gather up a couple tranquil cleaves..you will be set of plat.