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Debunking The Myth That Is Pay To Win


Octoknightx
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this isn't pay to win simply because PvP at present is meaningless. there is nothing to win as there are no rewards of any kind for PvP.

 

there are pay to win games, and you're a fool if you think they don't exist.

in it's simplist form:

 

conditions

1.there must be rewards for PvP for a game to even begin to be considered for a pay to win handle. there is no winning in PvE*

2. if 1 is true (there are PvP rewards) there must be items cash only that give a clear advantage vs someone who doesn't buy them. and if the same item is obtainable in game, amount vs grind received is the balancing factor. 

 

ex; player can buy 1000 items in cash shop, vs grinding in game, if that 1000 can be somewhat balanced without excessive grinding to match, it's still borderline, however if it would take weeks to match that 1k, it's clear pay to win.

 

while you can buy hard to grind mats, such as oxium, this is pay for convenience, not pay to win as the game is PvE with nothing in the way of rewards for PvPers.

 

until such time as there is actually some type of reward system or other system where PvP actually matters, warframe isn't pay to win.

 

 

*unless there is some sort of PvE challenge or point system that a player can consistently get rewards and top scores over other players because of cash shop exclusive items.

Edited by DeadX65
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A paying player gets it immediately, with no effort, and with it pre-tatered. While the non-paying player is still grinding for the privelege (keys) to grind for it, they paying player is already maxing him out. On top of that, the non paying player has to grind for a tater as well. That's not even mentioning the other stuff that comes in the package.

There is a cash shop, and it changes the way you play the game. That makes it P2W. I am not complaining, mind you. I enjoy the game, but I wish they would change/improve their monetization strategy.

The only thing you are paying for is the reduction in boredom. When it is cooking or researching, you are either not logged in or grinding something else. That's it. You get the same item that the guy who paid for it gets. If you think that is pay to win then you must driving is pay to win compared to walking. You get to the same destination but one gets stronger legs and healthier lifestyle while the other one gets lazy but gets there faster. Edited by Zaresin
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zlXiNQZ.jpg

By this definition it would be no

Yes there is an unlock system

Yes you can buy unlocks with cash

No it does not give you more choice of guns compared to someone that does not pay.

Now follow that line..........you did? Yay you can follow direction....now read what it points to....

It says not pay to win

Edited by Zaresin
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The only thing you are paying for is the reduction in boredom. When it is cooking or researching, you are either not logged in or grinding something else. That's it. You get the same item that the guy who paid for it gets. If you think that is pay to win then you must driving is pay to win compared to walking. You get to the same destination but one gets stronger legs and healthier lifestyle while the other one gets lazy but gets there faster.

See the chart about your post.  You can buy unlocks that change the way you play the game. (Bottom left P2W).  Even if you ignore the unlock system, you end up at the bottom right (P2W), as you can get xp boosters and generally save time with purchases.

 

Edit:

You are wrong.  Not only does it give you more choices in guns, but it gives you more choices in Frames as well.

Edited by (PS4)DesecratedFlame
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See the chart about your post.  You can buy unlocks that change the way you play the game. (Bottom left P2W).  Even if you ignore the unlock system, you end up at the bottom right (P2W), as you can get xp boosters and generally save time with purchases.

 

Edit:

You are wrong.  Not only does it give you more choices in guns, but it gives you more choices in Frames as well.

Which even free players can get just for being savvy through trading.

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zlXiNQZ.jpg

bad chart is bad, it confuses pay for convenience and pay to win. does not address that fact that PvE rarely has any specific reward system for doing better than other players, and that if a CS item in that scenario actually gives an advantage that cannot be obtained in game.

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See the chart about your post. You can buy unlocks that change the way you play the game. (Bottom left P2W). Even if you ignore the unlock system, you end up at the bottom right (P2W), as you can get xp boosters and generally save time with purchases.

Edit:

You are wrong. Not only does it give you more choices in guns, but it gives you more choices in Frames as well.

That would be true if you actually could not get them without paying. But you can. So no it doesn't effect your game play.

You must be thinking of the hidden guns that you have to farm their blueprints for that you wouldn't know about unless you consulted the wiki.

Edited by Zaresin
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How can you get slots without Plat (some one has to pay for the Plat at some point, even traded Plat was purchased by someone)?

Not the free plat you get. Not our fault someone was stupid and spent it on boosters. That is called being smart with your money.

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bad chart is bad, it confuses pay for convenience and pay to win. does not address that fact that PvE rarely has any specific reward system for doing better than other players, and that if a CS item in that scenario actually gives an advantage that cannot be obtained in game.

And of course he is gonna try and use a chart that supports his case when it doesn't even work with the game in question.

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Do you get enough free Plat to buy every available Frame slot and weapon slot?

You get enough to get you started. It is expected that you will sell old weapons to make way for newer weapons. That is how progression style systems work. You're def showing your age here bub.

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Paying players have the same constraints as they still have to buy slots or pay for it through the weapon as you are paying for the weapon, catalyst, rush time, and slot.

Everything a non paying player could get at a far cheaper price. Only thing they are out of is patience. Me I'm out of money from my paycheck. Who comes out on top here ?

Edited by Zaresin
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Paying players have the same constraints as they still have to buy slots or pay for it through the weapon as you are paying for the weapon, catalyst, rush time, and slot.

Everything a non paying player could get at a far cheaper price. Only thing they are out of is patience. Me I'm out of money from my paycheck. Who comes out on top here ?

They guy who paid (to win) to  have enough slots for at least one of every Warframe available at all times.

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Ok lets look at it this way. Planetside 2. Planetside 2 has guns that are obviously better and can be bought for real money. You can also buy attachments. So if some noob buys the "best"(for him) gun and buys all the attachments he wants he "could" potentially kill easier, but he doesn't simply win. There are tons of other players to deal with for just one guy with a shiny new gun to just win. He has to capture a control point in the middle of a huge battle raging, he is going to lose no matter what. Now after experience even a somewhat good player could start a new character and wreck everything in sight with stock weapons. But the problem for new players is that they don't have those "direct upgrades" like resistance to explosives or small arms(bought with in-game currency, not money) or used real money to get less recoil on their guns. But even with those upgrades you are still going to die, you will just survive ONE more bullet. Yet people love to call it pay to win. So yes players have an advantage...but it isn't pay to win.

Actually, those better guns can also be purchased for certs, and, assuming they haven't changed since last year, the only real difference between certain guns is one's gold, the other isn't.

 

Planetside 2 alone is also a different, and rather strange, beast of a game where the individual means @(*()$ nothing compared to the massive horde he will inevitably be facing. Because of sheer attrition and a lot of spawn camping.

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They guy who paid (to win) to  have enough slots for at least one of every Warframe available at all times.

Which every frame can do what others do and some better. I have every frame. Want to guess how many I actually use? 2. Loki prime and rhino prime. The others are a waste of space to me. I have three favorite weapons, braton prime, angstrum, and forget the name at the moment but it's a fist and feet weapon. Every item you can get without paying. Everything I have you can get without paying a dime. I can actually get plat without paying and know several people who have over 10k plat and have never payed for plat in their entire warframe career. They just know how to work the system.

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Which every frame can do what others do and some better. I have every frame. Want to guess how many I actually use? 2. Loki prime and rhino prime. The others are a waste of space to me. I have three favorite weapons, braton prime, angstrum, and forget the name at the moment but it's a fist and feet weapon. Every item you can get without paying. Everything I have you can get without paying a dime. I can actually get plat without paying and know several people who have over 10k plat and have never payed for plat in their entire warframe career. They just know how to work the system.

Congrats.  That doesn't change anything I said, though.

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They guy who paid (to win) to  have enough slots for at least one of every Warframe available at all times.

you at yet haven't said anything about what thses players actually win...

 

and another point of fact that makes this a game of pay for convenience and not win besides it being PvE

 

my bro hasn't spent a dime on this game, he has over 1k plat atm, would probably have even more if he hadn't bought cosmetics and rushed a bunch of stuff.

 

all through farming and trading. your pay to win argument fails on all levels under all criteria except your own skewed view. your belief doesn't mesh with reality.

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you at yet haven't said anything about what thses players actually win...

 

and another point of fact that makes this a game of pay for convenience and not win besides it being PvE

 

my bro hasn't spent a dime on this game, he has over 1k plat atm, would probably have even more if he hadn't bought cosmetics and rushed a bunch of stuff.

 

all through farming and trading. your pay to win argument fails on all levels under all criteria except your own skewed view. your belief doesn't mesh with reality.

I think your issue is that you are taking the "win" part too literally.

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you at yet haven't said anything about what thses players actually win...

 

and another point of fact that makes this a game of pay for convenience and not win besides it being PvE

 

my bro hasn't spent a dime on this game, he has over 1k plat atm, would probably have even more if he hadn't bought cosmetics and rushed a bunch of stuff.

 

all through farming and trading. your pay to win argument fails on all levels under all criteria except your own skewed view. your belief doesn't mesh with reality.

Exactly and a lot of his views do show his age as those views would be different if he had the experience to see that nothing about a coop game lets you "win" anything. Only thing you can win here is a beauty contest or see who is more sparkly.

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Exactly and a lot of his views do show his age as those views would be different if he had the experience to see that nothing about a coop game lets you "win" anything. Only thing you can win here is a beauty contest or see who is more sparkly.

Being more sparkly than you is very important. How can I not lord my amazing Edward Cullen powers over the teenage female youth without being sparkly?!

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