Warframe Is Economically Backwards.

[Innocent_Flower]

Let's assume there are four groups of people who play warframe. I'm sure some of you might see it as more complex as that and might see yourself as between groups, but for the sake of the argument, run with me. 

 

- Big spenders 

- middle  spenders. 

- rare spenders 

- non spenders. 

 

 

 

Big spenders are a minority . They're the guys who buy prime access, lots of cosmetics and some complete weapons/warframes in the market. The middle spenders will buy cosmetics and maybe a prime access, they're also pretty rare.Though both of the previously mentioned groups probably have a higher level of representation on the forums.  Rare spenders are 'uncommon' (and probably limit themselves to cosmetics, slots and maybe a brief flirtation with other things that will be  and non spenders are the vast majority of players. The overwhelming majority if you consider how many players have left the game. 

 

 

So we're going to not count the big spenders for a bit. They're an extreme minority and would buy anything for any game they invest enough time in. That introduction aside; here's the argument. 

 

 

 

 

Firstly, prices for warframes and weapons are so high that they don't say "buy me". they say to any player who's played long enough "you'd be better off farming for me instead" and should you actually buy anyone but volt you're going to be filled with guilt later when you find that you could have spend a few minutes rather than a few hundred plat.

 

Yeah the people who don't know that building is better than buying are new players. to them it seems like plat purchases are the way to go because of the way the market is laid out... but most new players are non spenders. All you're realy doing is intimidating them with the idea that the game is pay to win, which causes them to leave and removes a potential customer. 

 

 

Then you get to actual plat prices. Most people i've talked to work under this mentality. 

- If 75% off, i should buy plat. 

-If 50% off, I could by plat. 

-If 20% off I should not buy plat. Also this stops me from getting a better discount for 1/2 days so I should consider exiting warframe to avoid collection if i want a good discount. 

- If no discount; Do not buy plat. 

 

Thing is, 50% is very rare. 75% is incredibly rare. This means that most days will make me feel like I'm barred from buying plat. 

 

 

 

 

 

That's most of my argument over, but there's some more about prime access here... 

 

The frame and the exclusives are what people are realy after. Weapons and sentinels are minor factors and 90 day boosters and thousands of plat are just excuses to keep the price realy high. 

 

DE purposely makes the grind for the frame and the best weapon hellish in order to encourage people to buy prime access. This Hardly works: Big spenders will buy prime access regardless of grind. Rare and non spenders simply won't buy. The only group who would be influenced by the hell-grind are the moderate spenders. whilst some will be influenced to avoid the grind by buying prime access, others might just see it as a detestable business practice to be discouraged or maybe even a challenge to overcome. The guys who would never spend hundreds of dollars on prime access (the overwhelming majority of the playerbase) must grind realy hard if they want that prime frame. That realy just makes them hate the void and grow bored of the game and inspires complaint threads. Or they can wait several months for that frame to become easier to obtain when the next prime set pops up. You're punishing players who aren't potential consumers for highly expensive in-game content. That's hardly good for long term business. In the end a few players are seeing prime syndanas or sugutras and are resenting that player for paying huge money to avoid that awful grind. That isn't good for a community. 

 

 

 

[Brettsta]

Would be interested to know which category you fall under.

[Renegade343]

Probably because the Platinum Market is, to be blunt, quite overpriced in most places. 

[Aratir]

You know you can get the non primed versions easier and its not a grind. But if you want the "primes" work for it, crying how costly they are or how the rng is bad will not get you one. Think about it if you could get everything cheap, nothing would have a value.

[Innocent_Flower]

Would be interested to know which category you fall under.

Rare spender? I've probably spent... maybe 15 GBP on the game. 

 

No prime access

Slots

Cosmetics

 

I think I might have rushed something right at the start of playing the game. Not sure. I bought a potato and a bit of oxium too. 

Edited July 13, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[BrotherIcarus]

Do you have a source for any of this info, or are these quantity's pulled right out of no where?

Edited July 13, 2014 by BrotherIcarus

[Davoodoo]

Every veteran in game is either

 

rare spender - if you buy new prime access or any new guns then only thing you do is cutting amount of content you still need to go through, so you limit your purchases to everything you cant get by playing. You have everything else already.

 

big spender - they buy everything anyway.

 

no spender - they dont buy anything.

 

middle spenders veterans, i havent seen any...

Edited July 13, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Innocent_Flower]

Do you have a source for any of this info, or are these number pulled right out of no where?

 In any way do i seem inaccurate? 

Edited July 13, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Damuranashi]

Proud non spender here.

[Satinpuppies]

Do you have a source for any of this info, or are these number pulled right out of no where?

Numbers?

[Innocent_Flower]

Numbers?

[Satinpuppies]

I'm a rare spender, also your chart is right on accurate with my friends, we purposely don't login if we decide we want to spend money for plat, we won't unless it's 75% also i will never buy prime access it's a waste of money if it just takes away working for the last thing i need which is prime items. I made the mistake of buying the last loki piece that i needed in the market and i just stopped playing after i level'd hiim in the same day.

[bejuizb]

You know you can get the non primed versions easier and its not a grind. But if you want the "primes" work for it, crying how costly they are or how the rng is bad will not get you one. Think about it if you could get everything cheap, nothing would have a value.

All of this.

 

I've spent about 30USD on this game, and that I used when I got the 50% off coupon. The only thing I used that plat on was cosmetics before trading became a feature. Since then, I've accumulated top tier weapons, and several Warframes on my own. It gives value to platinum and items when you have to spend time and effort and earn it. Its a currency, and money doesn't happen by everyone easily irl as well. 

 

The platinum market is fine as it is. People who have the money benefit, and people who have the time and dedication benefit. Just like real life. 

[Renegade343]

Contents from post #1.

Actually, I have a proposal to entice players to spend a bit more in the Platinum Market (i.e. make the Platinum Market more attractive). I will share this here. 

 

Link: 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/260224-platinum-market-tweaking/

[Satinpuppies]

All of this.

 

I've spent about 30USD on this game, and that I used when I got the 50% off coupon. The only thing I used that plat on was cosmetics before trading became a feature. Since then, I've accumulated top tier weapons, and several Warframes on my own. It gives value to platinum and items when you have to spend time and effort and earn it. Its a currency, and money doesn't happen by everyone easily irl as well. 

 

The platinum market is fine as it is. People who have the money benefit, and people who have the time and dedication benefit. Just like real life. 

I agree, i usually end up rage quitting cause i run out of keys and buying them off someone in the market with all of the platinum i accrued through  selling prime bps that i earned trying to get the one that i wanted so in the end i still get what i want free of cost. 

Edited July 13, 2014 by Satinpuppies

[BrotherIcarus]

 In any way do i seem inaccurate? 

Yes you seem totally inaccurate because you have no proof, go in game and survey a hundred or so people that would be enough proof to back your point up.

[Zeitzbach]

DE wants you to PLAY, not to just pay. It's great that all the big option turns you off. Games that encourage you to pay for every gear is always the one I spend too much on. This one? I'm happy it's still within my control and that I still have enough to pay for other Steam games. (Or to buy that stupid gamble box on another game)

 

People will spend anyway to rush stuffs. 3 days of waiting or 50 Plats. I will go with 50 plats. Time is not something you can buy back. This is where they make most of their money, from the tiny transaction people buy to make their life easier. Even when I'm telling myself "I won't buy any plat until I get a 50% Sale at least", I still click the 5$ option once in awhile for the sake of rushing items, or for a quick forma/potato.

[Innocent_Flower]

You know you can get the non primed versions easier and its not a grind. But if you want the "primes" work for it, crying how costly they are or how the rng is bad will not get you one. Think about it if you could get everything cheap, nothing would have a value.

 

Did you miss the first argument? The one about how prices for frames and weapons are so high that they pretty much tell you to 'go grind for it'. I don't see the relevance... 

 

Oh and prime weapons are far superior in stats (debatable in appearance) The frames have slight bonuses. 

 

Yes you seem totally inaccurate because you have no proof, go in game and survey a hundred or so people that would be enough proof to back your point up.

 

Qualitative research is just as important as quantitative. This is mostly from people I talk to and off-site forums, I talk to many people. If DE would release the official statistics, I'm sure i could use them too. 

Edited July 13, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[unknow99]

You either pay with plats or with time...

 

Both are expensive in a way... (although I agree that some market prices are quite high)

[azmyth1]

Whoever's in charge of pricing should read about the economic idea of demand elasticity.  The higher the price, the fewer people will buy something, however the more money the seller makes on each one.  Hence, there is a tradeoff.  If you want to make a lot of money, you can either sell a lot for low prices or a little for high prices, or somewhere in between.  Mathematically, there is an optimum price - not too high, not to low.  Deviate from this price and the seller will lose money.

 

If all platinum prices were 1,000,000, DE would make no money ever.  No could afford anything, so everyone would be effectively free players.  If all platinum prices were 1, they would make some money, but not much.  The profit maximizing price will be high enough that they make a reasonable amount per sale, but low enough that normal people would actually consider buying the item.  By that logic, prices are way too high.  Not just for players, but for DE as well.  If no one ever buys a Dual Skana for 200p, both players and DE lose.  Players lose because they don't get a reasonable price, but DE also loses because no one buys what they are selling and their profit is 0.

 

This argument is not: DE should be nicer to players.  It's DE should lower prices even if they only care about themselves.

[Wahooo]

Whoever's in charge of pricing should read about the economic idea of demand elasticity.  The higher the price, the fewer people will buy something, however the more money the seller makes on each one.  Hence, there is a tradeoff.  If you want to make a lot of money, you can either sell a lot for low prices or a little for high prices, or somewhere in between.  Mathematically, there is an optimum price - not too high, not to low.  Deviate from this price and the seller will lose money.

 

If all platinum prices were 1,000,000, DE would make no money ever.  No could afford anything, so everyone would be effectively free players.  If all platinum prices were 1, they would make some money, but not much.  The profit maximizing price will be high enough that they make a reasonable amount per sale, but low enough that normal people would actually consider buying the item.  By that logic, prices are way too high.  Not just for players, but for DE as well.  If no one ever buys a Dual Skana for 200p, both players and DE lose.  Players lose because they don't get a reasonable price, but DE also loses because no one buys what they are selling and their profit is 0.

 

This argument is not: DE should be nicer to players.  It's DE should lower prices even if they only care about themselves.

What if DE's goal is not to make the most amount of money off the market but to have prices that encourage people to play the game and farm and craft, yet still have a price that some people who are impatient will pay for, so they will continue to have some amount of money coming in?

 

There are items that are more reasonable, items that make sense to buy plat for.  Slots, Potato, maybe a forma if you are building a Dojo.  Then you have excess for the trade channel.

[Innocent_Flower]

What if DE's goal is not to make the most amount of money off the market but to have prices that encourage people to play the game and farm and craft, yet still have a price that some people who are impatient will pay for, so they will continue to have some amount of money coming in?

 

Then they'd be both bad developers and businessmen. 

[Wahooo]

Then they'd be both bad developers and businessmen. 

Because the goal of all developers is to make the most money as possible?

[Innocent_Flower]

That's half of it. To make a game that's good and financialy successful is great.

 

 

 

Even If DE aren't currently financially threatened, they could make more money by fixing their economics. Also it just so happens that fixing their economics would make the game better too. Woo

Edited July 13, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Wahooo]

Even If DE aren't currently financially threatened, they could make more money by fixing their economics. Also it just so happens that fixing their economics would make the game better too. Woo

Whatever DE could do is speculation and the benefit of those changes are more speculation tainted with opinion and personal desire.

 

DE has the numbers that we don't.  DE knows how much income they actually are getting.  DE knows what is and is not selling.  DE knows what they want to see out of market purchases.

 

You can disagree with the prices and the market all you want but without having the same information and numbers they have as well as the goals they have for themselves as far as how game play and the economics balance.

Complaining about the plat prices and market is fine, I understand if I wanted to buy anything from the market i'd complain as well.  But EVERY TIME these threads come up a bunch of arm chair economists come out saying how simple it would be to lower the prices make me happy so I will buy stuff and then since they took my money they will gain massive profits.

We just don't know anything about the real numbers and what they mean to DE.  Do they have a 5 year plan for working in the Red?  Doubtful, rare in a video game industry, especially with a small-ish developer, but not unheard of.

 

Hell I remember in the early days of Global Agenda, they had been planning on, and announcing that the game would be subscription based $14 or $15 dollars a month.  Then, as things started to change in the whole of video game markets and F2P titles they changed to a one time purchase model and then announced it would be going F2P.  OMG, the forums exploded with threads like this.  Suddenly the entire player base received PhDs in economics.  Then Erez Goran, the owner of the company and biggest fan boi (later hater) of the game, started randomly responding to the threads saying that basically players need to stop worrying about a game companies profit/loss.  It is great they are passionate about the long term stability of a game, but really they just don't have enough information to give quality input and they should stick to playing the game.  Of course he also added that, he's rich and some rich people collect cars as a hobby and some travel, he is developing a video game.