Failing A Mission Consumes Keys Now?

[Onisa]

So apparently failing a void mission eats the key now?

Probably a change they tacked on to the last hot fix that they felt we didn't need to know about...

 

Edit: I am not talking about aborting the mission. I'm talking about the pod biting it or enemy transmission finishing. Mission failures.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Onisa

[BrotherIcarus]

No it has been a thing for a while.  Since 13.7

Edited July 13, 2014 by BrotherIcarus

[Onisa]

Funny, little more than a week ago I could goof around in solo void and not lose keys over it.

[Daikirai]

As "BrotherIcarus" stated, it's since update 13.7 and it was also mentioned in the patch notes.

"Note:  To prevent exploits with all Void Keys, if you are hosting and abort an endless mission after the objective has been completed, you will lose your key."

 

Here is the link if you want to read it yourself:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/244507-update-1370-13701-depths-of-the-void/

 

 

Then again it doesn't say anything about in case of failing the mission.

 

But if you kept your key after failing the mission, it would still be exploitable.
Not going into detail how it worked since it would count as promoting bugs/glitches that you can use for your own benefit,
even though it was fixed.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Daikirai

[Implodingbanana]

i say its a stupid change now i don't feel like risking my bigger keys in solo :/ i wish DE would change that a little and make it so that we don't lose the key in every situation

[Rydian]

You only lose it if you've already gotten one success in that mission already.

Meaning survival/defense are the only places it can happen.

 

It's to stop people from running the same exact key over and over hoping for the right reward at the right timer mark.

[FlakAttack]

You only lose it if you've already gotten one success in that mission already.

Meaning survival/defense are the only places it can happen.

 

It's to stop people from running the same exact key over and over hoping for the right reward at the right timer mark.

This seems like less of a problem with the players and more of a problem with the way rewards are dealt out.

[Onisa]

You only lose it if you've already gotten one success in that mission already.

Meaning survival/defense are the only places it can happen.

 

It's to stop people from running the same exact key over and over hoping for the right reward at the right timer mark.

So if I'm pushing myself in solo T1 survival and decide I can't make the 40 min mark I loose the loot and the key if I don't make it out?

Wonderful.

 

My friend and I have also lost Exterminate and Capture keys this way.

[Rydian]

My friend and I have also lost Exterminate and Capture keys this way.

Are you sure on that?  Capture might be under the new mechanic too since there's two targets, but exterminate should not.

 

If it happens again with something like exterminate or mobile defense or something where you're not offered the chance at a reward before the mission completes, then send in a ticket about the lost key and see what DE says.

[Daikirai]

So if I'm pushing myself in solo T1 survival and decide I can't make the 40 min mark I loose the loot and the key if I don't make it out?

Wonderful.

 

My friend and I have also lost Exterminate and Capture keys this way.

 

I don't mean to be rude but in defense and survival missions it's upon yourself to know your limits, or to be willing to take the risk of loss in finding out your limits.

 

For the lost exterminate and capture keys due failling the mission i don't know if it's intented,

since there is or was no exploitable glitch/bug, at least as far as i know.

[Onisa]

Are you sure on that?  Capture might be under the new mechanic too since there's two targets, but exterminate should not.

 

If it happens again with something like exterminate or mobile defense or something where you're not offered the chance at a reward before the mission completes, then send in a ticket about the lost key and see what DE says.

Given DE's past responses concerning Void keys I doubt it would be worth my effort to type the question.

 

On a side note, how does such an 'exploit' harm the game? People are still playing after all.

[Rydian]

Given DE's past responses concerning Void keys I doubt it would be worth my effort to type the question.

Oh no no no, you're not copping out on this one that easily!

If what you say is true, that's an issue with premature loss of a key.

When it happens again, send in a ticket and see (and post) what DE says/does, because I'm curious about this.

 

If there's actual key loss when there's not supposed to be, it'd be fair to warn other players of the exact circumstances, right? :P

 

On a side note, how does such an 'exploit' harm the game? People are still playing after all.

One person could, with a single Tower IV key, give 3 other people infinite runs (if void host migration didn't fail the mission) of the single reward they want (if aborting after the first offered reward kept the key).  Which kills the need to gather keys.

[Tarille]

Yeah... Failing a mission results in a lost key.

 

For the same reason that abandoning a mission does.

 

People used to farm for 20 minutes in Survival or 5-15 waves in Defence and if they didn't get the loot they wanted, they'd abandon or force a failure of the mission to leave with their key intact allowing them to use the same key over and over until they got the loot they wanted.

 

While you don't get all the other loot this way, it meant that 1 key = 1 item of your choice.

 

As far as how it harms the game, it makes farming for keys not that relevant because you're guaranteed to get what you want with a single key and it as such it means that the rarer stuff is no longer as rare (Especially with the updated loot tables giving the 20 minute reward in survivals a significantly higher chance at being a prime part)

 

It's not as harsh as it could be - It's possible to leave Survivals before 5 minutes and Defence before wave 5 (The first rewards) and keep your keys. But it does mean that this evidently unintended exploit is no longer possible (It also means that people get less screwed over by people leaving high level waves and making the rest of their team unable to carry on and thus lose their key)

[Onisa]

I don't mean to be rude but in defense and survival missions it's upon yourself to know your limits, or to be willing to take the risk of loss in finding out your limits.

 

For the lost exterminate and capture keys due failling the mission i don't know if it's intented,

since there is or was no exploitable glitch/bug, at least as far as i know.

And the random disconnects? Is that my fault too?

Or when Vor waits for the 5th round to show up in Interception or Defense?

It was bad enough when T4 keys were pushed back in intermission rounds, but now all void keys are 'finish or lose'?

 

If this is DE's perfect world I don't know how long I'm going to be able to enjoy it...

[Onisa]

Oh no no no, you're not copping out on this one that easily!

If what you say is true, that's an issue with premature loss of a key.

When it happens again, send in a ticket and see (and post) what DE says/does, because I'm curious about this.

 

If there's actual key loss when there's not supposed to be, it'd be fair to warn other players of the exact circumstances, right? :P

 

One person could, with a single Tower IV key, give 3 other people infinite runs (if void host migration didn't fail the mission) of the single reward they want (if aborting after the first offered reward kept the key).  Which kills the need to gather keys.

Really? I'm not talking personal experiences (even if those have been sub par as well), I'm talking about when DE forgot to add something to the tables and then refused to reimburse the keys people spent looking for that item, since 'they knew the risks'.

 

As small as a change as it is, I meant the mission fail angle, not the abort one. I hadn't thought of the loop though, even if it only works with defense and interception.

 

It does however make PUG groups all the more risky though. Guess I'll have to do all my void runs when I can fill the lobby with friends then, not that it'll save me from a disconnect.

 

(It also means that people get less screwed over by people leaving high level waves and making the rest of their team unable to carry on and thus lose their key)

I think you have that backwards.

[Daikirai]

And the random disconnects? Is that my fault too?

Or when Vor waits for the 5th round to show up in Interception or Defense?

It was bad enough when T4 keys were pushed back in intermission rounds, but now all void keys are 'finish or lose'?

 

If this is DE's perfect world I don't know how long I'm going to be able to enjoy it...

Random disconnects might not be your fault (rather your provider's fault i assume), but they are also not DE's fault, unless there are connection/server issues on DE's side of course and then you could send them a support ticket to look into it and possibly retrieve your lost keys, if the hassel is worth it for you.

About Vor i have no personal experience, since i did not bother yet to play T4 missions.

But from what i read it's an guaranteed encounter at least.

His spawn time is somewhat RNG i guess(?) but in my opinion that's ok, after all he is a boss and drops one of the Cicero Crisis mods guaranteed!

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Corrupted_Vor

The changes in the reward system for the Void missions were also in dire need, not saying it's perfect now but for sure a change in the right direction if compared to before.

 

And about the glitch, personally i had no problem with using it to run survival/defense over and over again till the wanted drop considering the old reward system which was to put it blunt, utter S#&$.

In that way the glitch was not unfair(?) in my opinion, cause it was accessible for all and a way to bypass the old reward system that felt more like punishing than rewarding.

Doesn't mean i'm font of glitches that can be exploited in a somewhat gamebreaking way, if you go a bit further.

If you look on it on a bigger picture and bring dojo's and trading into consideration.

Exaggerating, imagine someone with 10k+ formas and an ridiculous amount of platin that he made through trading prime parts/BP's, who never put a single dime into buying platin.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Daikirai

[Rydian]

Really? I'm not talking personal experiences (even if those have been sub par as well), I'm talking about when DE forgot to add something to the tables and then refused to reimburse the keys people spent looking for that item, since 'they knew the risks'.

What?

[Monolake]

Only in survival. 

[RealPandemonium]

This wouldn't have become an issue in the first place if the drop tables weren't messed up.  

[TheDoctah]

This wouldn't have become an issue in the first place if the drop tables weren't messed up.  

[Tsukinoki]

As said before, its only in survival and defense.
And I think that this is a great change honestly, and has actually made pugging a bit nicer for void missions.
The reason I say that is before I would run a survival, get some great parts I needed by 20 minutes, only to have the host force a DC, and then I would be left with no rewards for that mission while the host kept his key because he didn't get what he wanted.
And that was not an uncommon occurance.  In my experiences that was roughly half of the void runs I did before they implemented the change where your key was used up if you went past 5 minutes in survival.
And IMO, anything that discourages that sort of behavior is a very good thing.

It also fixes the exploit of one person hosting a defense mission, 3 would join in.  At a wave where 3 people wanted the rewards they would claim and exit.  The host would then let the pod die.
He would keep his key and the 3 other people would get a reward from it.
Now they can no longer do that, which I see as only a good thing.

[Daikirai]

As said before, its only in survival and defense.

And I think that this is a great change honestly, and has actually made pugging a bit nicer for void missions.

The reason I say that is before I would run a survival, get some great parts I needed by 20 minutes, only to have the host force a DC, and then I would be left with no rewards for that mission while the host kept his key because he didn't get what he wanted.

And that was not an uncommon occurance.  In my experiences that was roughly half of the void runs I did before they implemented the change where your key was used up if you went past 5 minutes in survival.

And IMO, anything that discourages that sort of behavior is a very good thing.

It also fixes the exploit of one person hosting a defense mission, 3 would join in.  At a wave where 3 people wanted the rewards they would claim and exit.  The host would then let the pod die.

He would keep his key and the 3 other people would get a reward from it.

Now they can no longer do that, which I see as only a good thing.

 

Exactly that, sums it up well!

[Onisa]

Random disconnects might not be your fault (rather your provider's fault i assume), but they are also not DE's fault, unless there are connection/server issues on DE's side of course and then you could send them a support ticket to look into it and possibly retrieve your lost keys, if the hassel is worth it for you.

About Vor i have no personal experience, since i did not bother yet to play T4 missions.

But from what i read it's an guaranteed encounter at least.

His spawn time is somewhat RNG i guess(?) but in my opinion that's ok, after all he is a boss and drops one of the Cicero Crisis mods guaranteed!

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Corrupted_Vor

The changes in the reward system for the Void missions were also in dire need, not saying it's perfect now but for sure a change in the right direction if compared to before.

 

And about the glitch, personally i had no problem with using it to run survival/defense over and over again till the wanted drop considering the old reward system which was to put it blunt, utter S#&$.

In that way the glitch was not unfair(?) in my opinion, cause it was accessible for all and a way to bypass the old reward system that felt more like punishing than rewarding.

Doesn't mean i'm font of glitches that can be exploited in a somewhat gamebreaking way, if you go a bit further.

If you look on it on a bigger picture and bring dojo's and trading into consideration.

Exaggerating, imagine someone with 10k+ formas and an ridiculous amount of platin that he made through trading prime parts/BP's, who never put a single dime into buying platin.

It is only DE's fault in that a better matchmaking system has been asked for for at least the past 5 months. It's also an issue that no one has to own up to, since it's easy to point a finger at the next guy. And no, one key isn't worth the hassle. Five or more might be, but (if experience holds true) I'd only get back one a week and a half later, so it still isn't worth it.

 

Vor generally spawns between 2 and 20 minutes into any T4 mission, and while he doesn't scale everything else around you in endless missions does. It's always better for him to show up early rather than late. He's desacratable too.

 

How have they fixed the drop tables for void? The last few survivals I've run were key, core, key, key, Latron barrel, key. I've also gotten Sicarus prime barrel four of the last six T3 exterminates I've run.

 

Sorry to say, but at the drop rates I've seen, that would take months of continuous playing. Like 'who has time to take a crap' continuous.

75% of the items don't sell, because they drop 95% of the time, in my experience. Even if it didn't take so long to get something that would sell, all traded platinum has to be bought platinum. So even if little Tenno Tim has made 50k platinum through trades without spending a cent someone else has. Possibly even for the explicit purpose of trading with Tenno Tim, in which case DE makes money they normally wouldn't have.

 

 

What?

Apparently there was a decent stink over it, about a week or so after Loki Prime was released. DE admitted they forgot to add something (a Latron Prime part?) to the drop tables, but refused to refund any keys. No clue if they backpedaled from that or not but I haven't seen it mentioned since.

 

 

As said before, its only in survival and defense.

And I think that this is a great change honestly, and has actually made pugging a bit nicer for void missions.

The reason I say that is before I would run a survival, get some great parts I needed by 20 minutes, only to have the host force a DC, and then I would be left with no rewards for that mission while the host kept his key because he didn't get what he wanted.

And that was not an uncommon occurance.  In my experiences that was roughly half of the void runs I did before they implemented the change where your key was used up if you went past 5 minutes in survival.

And IMO, anything that discourages that sort of behavior is a very good thing.

It also fixes the exploit of one person hosting a defense mission, 3 would join in.  At a wave where 3 people wanted the rewards they would claim and exit.  The host would then let the pod die.

He would keep his key and the 3 other people would get a reward from it.

Now they can no longer do that, which I see as only a good thing.

And Interception.

 

See, your Void PUG experience has been completely different from mine. I have never run into a host who was recycling Survival keys that failed to mention it before hand in the lobby. I have however had PUGs see a Fang Prime handle pop up and bail when another part was the agreed upon goal. The mission can still be salvaged if only one does it, but when the next guy just has to have that Dakra Prime Handle or worse, disconnects, the last two have to hope they can get to the next extraction opportunity or they get (relatively) nothing. That's also excluding last second switch trolling.

[DSpite]

If people just want a game with zero consequences for any decision they make, however bad they might be, may I suggest they play Hello Kitty Online, Ill even help you with the link:

 

http://www.hellokittyonline.com/

 

... and if people are worried about random disconnects, why are they not worried about DE "randomly deleting their account" as stated in their policy:

 

11.  Account Termination

DIGITAL EXTREMES MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, BLOCK ACCESS TO OR DELETE THE SERVICE OR ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME WITH OR WITHOUT REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE.

 

I mean, it's even in capitals. For emphasis.

[Onisa]

If people just want a game with zero consequences for any decision they make, however bad they might be, may I suggest they play Hello Kitty Online, Ill even help you with the link:

 

http://www.hellokittyonline.com/

 

... and if people are worried about random disconnects, why are they not worried about DE "randomly deleting their account" as stated in their policy:

 

11.  Account Termination

DIGITAL EXTREMES MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, BLOCK ACCESS TO OR DELETE THE SERVICE OR ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME WITH OR WITHOUT REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE.

 

I mean, it's even in capitals. For emphasis.

I'm almost afraid to click that link. It's either a Japanese game that will make little sense even if I could read it or a watered down Americanized version of the franchise. Either way it's probably way too flash incentive.

 

Probably because simple connection issues are far more common and far more visible that an account just vanishing. If DE decides to go all public security on someone's account what are they going to do? Leave a critique on the forums? Unless you're saying there are no random disconnects, that it's all just a plot to keep that last prime part from us and keep everyone at their slot mach- I mean mission nodes.