Please Fix Quick Thinking

[Psychosist]

If it wasnt clear, I dont mean make it back like it was before. The stagger with loss of control has to be removed so you would actually get a chance to react and move away or fight back.

If you're only standing in front of one enemy, the stagger will not be lethal. QTR is designed to let you survive against one or two medium enemies. But you're here trying to tank lasers and Heavy Gunners and then complain when your second chance is wasted.

 

There are times when you deserve a second chance (running away from two Corrupted Lancers in low health)

 

and there are times when you don't (facetanking heavy units).

 

[size=2]Also, standing still makes you much more likely to stagger. Certain animations like jumping, kicking, and rolling prevent staggers as far as I know.[/size]

Edited July 14, 2014 by Psychosist

[Awazx]

I have this mod fitted and works perfectly.

[Snake]

QT Works for my trinity just fine if she has enough energy but too little and its all over - Wish it was a bit more energy efficient, then it would be prefact. Rage not help very much but its a small start. BTW natural talent gets rid of stagger some what if you cast something.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

Don't stand in front of lasers and Heavy Gunners and you'll be A-OK.

Your just that guy arent you?

[DSpite]

Your just that guy arent you?

 

He's right though. Giving an example video in which ANY frames would be killed 5 times over and then saying "well, I should have survived that because this MOD is broken" simply implies that if that MOD was working as he wanted, he should have survived, done a bunch of stuff, and then slaughtered everything on that tile.

 

... so exactly how ARE you supposed to die with an equipped QT? 3 gunners? 5 gunners? What exact metrics are needed to kill a person with a "fixed" QT then?

[Monolake]

If you're only standing in front of one enemy, the stagger will not be lethal. QTR is designed to let you survive against one or two medium enemies. But you're here trying to tank lasers and Heavy Gunners and then complain when your second chance is wasted.

 

There are times when you deserve a second chance (running away from two Corrupted Lancers in low health)

 

and there are times when you don't (facetanking heavy units).

 

Also, standing still makes you much more likely to stagger. Certain animations like jumping, kicking, and rolling prevent staggers as far as I know.

In it4 it is lethal, if you are under fire from a heavy. Also I had the same happen in T3, because MOAs continous fire, you just helplessly watch this dance of agony for 3 seconds and you are done. There is no second chance, you lose control of your charachter is it so hard to understand? Do you think its not broken when you lose control and cant do anything?

QT only gives another small buffer of hitpoints from your energy, but its useless if you cant control your character under damage. Stagger has to be removed.

 

He's right though. Giving an example video in which ANY frames would be killed 5 times over and then saying "well, I should have survived that because this MOD is broken" simply implies that if that MOD was working as he wanted, he should have survived, done a bunch of stuff, and then slaughtered everything on that tile.

 

... so exactly how ARE you supposed to die with an equipped QT? 3 gunners? 5 gunners? What exact metrics are needed to kill a person with a "fixed" QT then?

Apparently you'v never played new Trinty, so let me explain: you wait till your HP drops the lowest and then cast Blessing to get 99,9%  damage resistance and then you can walk in lasers. Except you cant cast, when QT kicks in half of the time, as you lose control of your character. 

Lose control of your character.  How is that not broken? 

Edited July 15, 2014 by Monolake

[vaugahn]

As someone mentioned before, what would it take to kill someone running a "fixed" QTR? Should you just be able to facetank multiple enemies at zero health? You're not suggesting a fix, you're just complaining

[DSpite]

In it4 it is lethal, if you are under fire from a heavy. Also I had the same happen in T3, because MOAs continous fire, you just helplessly watch this dance of agony for 3 seconds and you are done. There is no second chance, you lose control of your charachter is it so hard to understand? Do you think its not broken when you lose control and cant do anything?

QT only gives another small buffer of hitpoints from your energy, but its useless if you cant control your character under damage. Stagger has to be removed.

 

Apparently you'v never played new Trinty, so let me explain: you wait till your HP drops the lowest and then cast Blessing to get 99,9%  damage resistance and then you can walk in lasers. Except you cant cast, when QT kicks in half of the time, as you lose control of your character. 

Lose control of your character.  How is that not broken? 

 

How is having a Trinity that CANT die not broken?

 

You found a nice loophole ... and discovered that a side effect of a card stopped you from exploiting that loophole.

 

Seems to me QT is broken as it only staggers you HALF the time, while it should be doing it 100% of the time.

 

99.9 precent Damage resistance should be given to you IF AND ONLY IF you can time it on your own, instead you are using QT as a "cheat" to get it to lock your HP at 2 for long enough for you enter GOD mode with Trinity using Blessing.

 

Now, THAT is broken.

Edited July 15, 2014 by DSpite

[notlamprey]

I've tried to use it on occasion, when I feel like goofing, and it's never seemed to work - at least, not that I can tell.

 

Of course I maxed it, you goose.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

In it4 it is lethal, if you are under fire from a heavy. Also I had the same happen in T3, because MOAs continous fire, you just helplessly watch this dance of agony for 3 seconds and you are done. There is no second chance, you lose control of your charachter is it so hard to understand? Do you think its not broken when you lose control and cant do anything?

QT only gives another small buffer of hitpoints from your energy, but its useless if you cant control your character under damage. Stagger has to be removed.

 

Apparently you'v never played new Trinty, so let me explain: you wait till your HP drops the lowest and then cast Blessing to get 99,9%  damage resistance and then you can walk in lasers. Except you cant cast, when QT kicks in half of the time, as you lose control of your character. 

Lose control of your character.  How is that not broken? 

 

I kind of already explained this above, but somehow it's eluded you so I'll make another attempt.

 

The stagger is not something that is unavoidable, is that so hard to understand?  Seriously, you're staggering because you're not playing to the mod appropriately.  The mod's name isn't Face Tank, it's Quick Thinking.  It never has and hopefully never will be intended to allow you to stand in front of a wall of damage while counting the ceiling tiles.

 

It exists to mitigate glancing blows whilst playing a high movement/damage avoidance playstyle.  You utilizing the mod incorrectly doesn't make it broken.  The stagger happens when you let it happen, ergo it's a downside to a very powerful survival mod.  Prior to the existence of Eximus units a player could be practically fully invulnerable forever with QT, but only if they ran around like a spastic 3 year old who just found the whole cookie jar.

 

Lose control of your character only when you allow yourself to lose control of your character.  How is that unfair?

[--Xalted-LuaGuard--]

The stagger is not something that is unavoidable, is that so hard to understand?  Seriously, you're staggering because you're not playing to the mod appropriately.  The mod's name isn't Face Tank, it's Quick Thinking.  It never has and hopefully never will be intended to allow you to stand in front of a wall of damage while counting the ceiling tiles.

i disagree. I combo Flow with Quick thinking on Excalibur Prime, and the stagger will loop as im unable to evade during the animation. so it goes: stagger-stagger-stagger-stagger-stagger-stagger-die anyway

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I just posted in your thread Miracle.  Your issue is a special one but isn't at all what's being discussed in this thread.

[Yopee]

How is having a Trinity that CANT die not broken?

 

You found a nice loophole ... and discovered that a side effect of a card stopped you from exploiting that loophole.

 

Seems to me QT is broken as it only staggers you HALF the time, while it should be doing it 100% of the time.

 

99.9 precent Damage resistance should be given to you IF AND ONLY IF you can time it on your own, instead you are using QT as a "cheat" to get it to lock your HP at 2 for long enough for you enter GOD mode with Trinity using Blessing.

 

Now, THAT is broken.

 

 

I kind of already explained this above, but somehow it's eluded you so I'll make another attempt.

 

The stagger is not something that is unavoidable, is that so hard to understand?  Seriously, you're staggering because you're not playing to the mod appropriately.  The mod's name isn't Face Tank, it's Quick Thinking.  It never has and hopefully never will be intended to allow you to stand in front of a wall of damage while counting the ceiling tiles.

 

It exists to mitigate glancing blows whilst playing a high movement/damage avoidance playstyle.  You utilizing the mod incorrectly doesn't make it broken.  The stagger happens when you let it happen, ergo it's a downside to a very powerful survival mod.  Prior to the existence of Eximus units a player could be practically fully invulnerable forever with QT, but only if they ran around like a spastic 3 year old who just found the whole cookie jar.

 

Lose control of your character only when you allow yourself to lose control of your character.  How is that unfair?

These two have said all I wanted to regarding QT.

 

 

But just in case the points are not clear enough,

Apparently you'v never played new Trinty, so let me explain: you wait till your HP drops the lowest and then cast Blessing to get 99,9%  damage resistance and then you can walk in lasers. Except you cant cast, when QT kicks in half of the time, as you lose control of your character. 

Lose control of your character.  How is that not broken? 

you might want to rethink what you are doing with your Trinity there.

You are using QT to facetank. Hek, you're not even tanking - you're committing suicide. You stand still and wait till your HP drops to the lowest. On purpose. This is a clear example of masochism, not quick thinking (the action, not the mod in this case).

 

I think the problem here is that masochistic Trinities are committing suicide to squeeze out a full power Blessing. Then one such Trinity has the gall to complain that QT doesn't guarantee complete safety for this masochistic suicide. 

 

Ever thought of playing Trinity like a normal player and activating Blessing when Trinity is at low health because of unavoidable attacks rather than standing still and enjoying the pain?

Edited July 16, 2014 by Yopee

[--Xalted-LuaGuard--]

I just posted in your thread Miracle.  Your issue is a special one but isn't at all what's being discussed in this thread.

ah ok

 

Edited July 16, 2014 by Miracl3

[Monolake]

These two have said all I wanted to regarding QT.

 

Ok you think QT should remain half-working crap, losing control if fine mechanic and Trinity nerf was not enough. 

 

 

 

 

These two have said all I wanted to regarding QT.

 

 

But just in case the points are not clear enough,

you might want to rethink what you are doing with your Trinity there.

You are using QT to facetank. Hek, you're not even tanking - you're committing suicide. You stand still and wait till your HP drops to the lowest. On purpose. This is a clear example of masochism, not quick thinking (the action, not the mod in this case).

 

I think the problem here is that masochistic Trinities are committing suicide to squeeze out a full power Blessing. Then one such Trinity has the gall to complain that QT doesn't guarantee complete safety for this masochistic suicide. 

 

Ever thought of playing Trinity like a normal player and activating Blessing when Trinity is at low health because of unavoidable attacks rather than standing still and enjoying the pain?

Isn't it clear that its not a normal game, its a test to showcase  the mechanics and issues?  

 

However this does happen in a normal game. As Trinity you have to tank, you HAVE TO TAKE DAMAGE - thats how her mechanics work since nerf,  and res team-mates under fire. Its already hard to play reactively and at very high levels it becomes impossible (see many threads about Trinity and get to play her properly at high levels).

 

 

Anyway its not a  Trinity specific issue, same happens with any other frame running QT. 

Edited July 16, 2014 by Monolake

[-10no-GCoda]

They fixed QT staggering issues few patches ago, but now it is back.

 

Now you can be staggered even if you briefly zorencopt on line of fire. sometimes.

Edited July 16, 2014 by GCoda

[Chorshaaz]

I think that (if I read the post correctly,) Monolake's concern is that the "quick thinking" portion of QT is at something of a loss (bear with the analogy, for a moment).  The issue being that one loses the opportunity to *benefit* from the emergency energy-to-health, for example taking cover or otherwise react to the situation, and get to safety, as opposed to falling over at the location you intended to vacate.

 

Conversely, removing the animation would permit the mod to basically function as a reservoir of hit-points, which brings the problem full-circle again, but there has to be some manner of balance that could be achieved with some tinkering.

[Arabaxus]

Quick Thinking's stagger is indeed annoying, but I don't think it's by any means broken.

 

I use Quick Thinking on my Loki Prime without Redirection, Vitality, or Vigor (Yes, Redirection and Vitality are not required mods, as many people like to believe), and as long as I am mobile, coptering, running around, etc. doing T4S at level 20 was not an issue, in fact, Quick Thinking saved me many times from going down. However, if I am not mobile and a high level Heavy Gunner catches me off-guard, then the stagger will indeed get me killed.

 

Yes, it is annoying how it doesn't serve as another reserve HP pool, but do we really need another Redirection/Vitality? I for one don't think so.

[Psychosist]

Ok you think QT should remain half-working crap, losing control if fine mechanic and Trinity nerf was not enough. 

It's not half-working. It works if you're using it right. You keep complaining "oh no I can't move during the stagger it's broken pls fix" and that's not the point we're trying to make. You wouldn't be staggered in the first place if you were playing it right. Moving and utilizing anti-stagger mechanics can prevent the stagger from occurring.

 

Isn't it clear that its not a normal game, its a test to showcase  the mechanics and issues?

You're showcasing the wrong things. Yes, we all know you cannot move/cast/reload/etc during the stagger. This is intentional. The stagger is implemented to punish players trying to foolishly abuse the mod. If you are staggering that means you are taking far too much damage and do not deserve a second life, because a smart player wouldn't be in that situation in the first place.

 

If you want to showcase something, then do a video about you being staggered under light/medium fire. Those are circumstances in which QT was intended to be used in.

However this does happen in a normal game. As Trinity you have to tank, you HAVE TO TAKE DAMAGE - thats how her mechanics work since nerf,  and res team-mates under fire. Its already hard to play reactively and at very high levels it becomes impossible (see many threads about Trinity and get to play her properly at high levels).

The playstyle of one game does not apply to every frame. Your claim that "this does normally happen" is untrue, considering not every frame's job is to facetank enemies. This is a Trinity issue, not one of QT. Go make a Trinity-rework thread if that's what you're concerned about.

[TwiceDead]

This is kind of similar to all those threads that claim that Accelerant is not helpful for keeping Ember alive.  Of course if you tank many hits you will die, even with Accelerant's stun.  You have to always keep moving in in this game and mitigating damage through taking cover, aggro management, and evasive maneuvers; Accelerant is there to cover the small holes in your defense and make your overall defense much more iron-clad.  Same thing with those people who say that Iron Skin is useless beyond Saturn.  Those people are expecting their abilities/mods to reduce the damage for them rather than using them as a multiplier to their own innate survivability from dodging and good movement habits. 

I love this. 

 

A warframe can survive all relevant content in this game without casting a single ability.  Ember has a convenient, almost brainless method of covering all holes in her defense.  Anything more is venturing into lazy, gamebreaking territory (see: Radial Blind, Loki, MPrime, old Avalanche, Stomp chains, Absorb, etc.)

And this. Thank you so much. 

[Saiyanjin1]

I think it's work well enough. The Rage +QT isn't as good as before but I still use it on Nyx. When I get to that 2 HP and cast Absorb even if for a few seconds to regain my shield then GTFO of whatever I got into in the first place. I'm sure that's the way the devs intend it to be used anyway, to give you extra time to get out of something not "god mode".  

[RealPandemonium]

I think that (if I read the post correctly,) Monolake's concern is that the "quick thinking" portion of QT is at something of a loss (bear with the analogy, for a moment).  The issue being that one loses the opportunity to *benefit* from the emergency energy-to-health, for example taking cover or otherwise react to the situation, and get to safety, as opposed to falling over at the location you intended to vacate.

 

Conversely, removing the animation would permit the mod to basically function as a reservoir of hit-points, which brings the problem full-circle again, but there has to be some manner of balance that could be achieved with some tinkering.

We need more posters like this one.