Magnets: How Do They Even Work?

[Retrikaethan]

i mean, really. the magnet proc is one of the most fantastical things out there and one of the most broken (along with the other thing i mean to mention). it is nearly completely useless to be used by the tenno but to use it against the tenno means a chance at victory for even the lowliest of enemies. i know the magnet proc was made to give disruptors a proper way to continue doing what they're doing, but a fact needs to be faced that the magnet proc is almost entirely worthless against anything but tenno. what does it mean that the most feared thing is not an enemy type or a group of enemies, but a single energy sapping proc? basically, what i am proposing, is changing how the magnet proc (and disruptors by extension) work. my own suggestion would be to leave the removal of shields as is but instead of outright removing all energy have it drain a chunk or a percent while disallowing the use of abilities for the duration of the effect (for enemies as well, such as the grineer aoe ground punch, scorpions grapple hook, corpus tech osprey summoning, disruptor disrupting[although they should be immune to the effect for obvious reasons], ancient healer's heal and the toxic ancients aoe poison murder, the shield ospreys shield buffing and the oxium ospreys charging, and so on and so on.) the idea of this would be to make it more useful to the tenno while still leaving disruptors to be complete bastards. of course, this is my own suggestion for changing it. there are probably better ways to bring the magnet proc in line with the rest of the procs so my point is is that it's basically a pvp only proc when in use by the tenno and a game changer for when in use by npcs assuming they can hit you with it.

 

now! onto my second point. completely in spite of the disruptive nature of the magnet proc, trinity with her blessing is even more ridiculous. a mission you could not do solo with any other frame instantly becomes a cake walk once you grab trinity and her blessing. the skill is unaffected by range or power for its heal (and while i agree with the recent change to the invulnerability, more still needs to be done to bring it in line with other ults). so long as you have blessing, you can win. even if you are disrupted, so long as you can survive past it to cast another, you can continue on as if nothing has happened. it is ludicrous. and honestly always was. the only ultimate with infinite range, and while it was the only heal, it is probably the best any healer could hope for now that its cast time is so short. the change i would propose for this ability would be to have the amount healed be a percentage of the recipient's shields and hp as defined by power strength as well as reducing the range from infinite to a very large, but still limited, size. (as for the invulnerability, base it on how much of your percent heal got through so if you heal for 25% and someone has 15% damage to both shields and hp, you would get a 60% damage reduction for the duration.) the point of this would not be to just nerf it. trinity, as is, can run off from her team and do as she likes wherever she likes and still be able to completely and competently heal any amount of damage, regardless of where they are in relation to her. this factor is completely non-conductive to team based play since the player playing trinity does not actually have to be anywhere near her team mates to fix them. considering the upcoming pvp change to dark sector conflicts, this can be readily and easily abused, even with the gradual mod system you have in store for it. (in this order, blessing, fleeting expertise, rage, quick thinking. boom. game over, your team wins. they cant kill you or your team mates because you fix them all too well.) assuming you do reduce the range of blessing, you should also increase trinity's run speed so she can keep up aj bit better as a baseline. (making blessing similar to molecular prime would be an interesting option as well.)

 

 

 

TL;DR: Magnet proc and Trinity's Blessing op, please bring them in line with their competitors(procs and ults).

[taiiat]

you could really benefit by hitting line break once in a while.

 

theoretically, Magnetic Effects are useful against high Level Enemies with Shields.

and that'd be the case, if Shields were protective like they used to be. but now they're just another type of Health, so they're useless.

they take body part multipliers, take Crits, never Regen, like i said, useless. it's Health that gets nuked harder.

 

Blessing usurping Well of Life is disconcerting, but it hasn't been addressed as of yet, for some reason.

[Lediard]

Magnetic is great against Corpus.  Did you think that it would be worthless against a faction where oftentimes 75% of their total HP is comprised of shields?

[MrA1]

MY EYES

[Tarille]

Magnetic is pretty useful vs Corpus and of minor benefit in the Void.

 

It essentially acts like a Viral proc but for Shields. 75% reduction on shields is no joke, it's pretty crushing for MOA who usually have fairly high amounts of shielding.

 

Against Tenno, it's pretty strong. But it kind of has to be to actually make things like Disruptor Door and Ancients actually threatening (Outside people playing low health frames with only Redirection on and no health restores)

 

It like Corrosive is only useful against a single faction, but the one it's useful on it's very good against. All you need is a single proc and you've essentially taken out 25-75% of a Corpus units life total. Better yet if your weapon is not naturally good against shields and does more damage versus the Flesh or Robotics underneath.

 

Blessing is fine as it is in my opinion. Yes its strong in that it is a full heal and full shields. Yes it's infinite range can be on the strong side (Though this is a non-issue with how close a team SHOULD be - The additional range past about 50m is only going to hit Door Heroes...) but it does have it's downsides.

 

It cannot be spammed because of the "Ability in use" error that occurs for the duration of the damage reduction meaning once it's used you have a period where there's no healing that can be done with it. It does have a cast time meaning you need to react to dropping health pools (Even more so if you're trying to maximize the benefit from the damage reduction). It also doesn't scale with high amounts of damage - Once you get to a point where incoming damage is enough to insta-kill players, Blessing is useless (Meanwhile CC scales infinitely, the more damage that enemies do, the more damage is prevented by CC)

 

So yeah it's a strong ability, but by no means is it overpowered (If you want overpowered, look at Link. 75% damage reduction that's about as much as Valkyr gets with a maxxed Steel Fiber but Link also works on damage taken to shields. Then of course there's the damage and CC reflection that occurs. Playing against Spectres in Dark Sectors, Blessing isn't the skill that causes issues, it's the Link causing her to be nigh invincible and able to deal huge amount of damage back at you if you're not careful)

[Retrikaethan]

you could really benefit by hitting line break once in a while.

 

theoretically, Magnetic Effects are useful against high Level Enemies with Shields.

and that'd be the case, if Shields were protective like they used to be. but now they're just another type of Health, so they're useless.

they take body part multipliers, take Crits, never Regen, like i said, useless. it's Health that gets nuked harder.

 

Blessing usurping Well of Life is disconcerting, but it hasn't been addressed as of yet, for some reason.

NEVER!!!!!! (seriously though, i could break it up but it doesnt change the content or anyone's ability to read it. wall of text a is magnetic rant, wall of text b is blessing rant with a conveniently short tldr at the bottom summarizing my point)

 

that's all it is good for though and shields disappear like they're not even there usually.

 

 

Magnetic is great against Corpus.  Did you think that it would be worthless against a faction where oftentimes 75% of their total HP is comprised of shields?

the problem is that the proc does two things, one of which is only useful against tenno.

 

 

MY EYES

SUCCESS!

 

 

Magnetic is pretty useful vs Corpus and of minor benefit in the Void.

 

It essentially acts like a Viral proc but for Shields. 75% reduction on shields is no joke, it's pretty crushing for MOA who usually have fairly high amounts of shielding.

 

Against Tenno, it's pretty strong. But it kind of has to be to actually make things like Disruptor Door and Ancients actually threatening (Outside people playing low health frames with only Redirection on and no health restores)

 

It like Corrosive is only useful against a single faction, but the one it's useful on it's very good against. All you need is a single proc and you've essentially taken out 25-75% of a Corpus units life total. Better yet if your weapon is not naturally good against shields and does more damage versus the Flesh or Robotics underneath.

 

Blessing is fine as it is in my opinion. Yes its strong in that it is a full heal and full shields. Yes it's infinite range can be on the strong side (Though this is a non-issue with how close a team SHOULD be - The additional range past about 50m is only going to hit Door Heroes...) but it does have it's downsides.

 

It cannot be spammed because of the "Ability in use" error that occurs for the duration of the damage reduction meaning once it's used you have a period where there's no healing that can be done with it. It does have a cast time meaning you need to react to dropping health pools (Even more so if you're trying to maximize the benefit from the damage reduction). It also doesn't scale with high amounts of damage - Once you get to a point where incoming damage is enough to insta-kill players, Blessing is useless (Meanwhile CC scales infinitely, the more damage that enemies do, the more damage is prevented by CC)

 

So yeah it's a strong ability, but by no means is it overpowered (If you want overpowered, look at Link. 75% damage reduction that's about as much as Valkyr gets with a maxxed Steel Fiber but Link also works on damage taken to shields. Then of course there's the damage and CC reflection that occurs. Playing against Spectres in Dark Sectors, Blessing isn't the skill that causes issues, it's the Link causing her to be nigh invincible and able to deal huge amount of damage back at you if you're not careful)

not as useful as cold, electric, or blast are.

 

except only a few things have shields of any merit anyway. ie, salad v. 

 

the problem is if you're solo or melee only, it quickly becomes entirely apparent that these particular things can be lethal on their own.

 

ancients. and likely the incoming riot moa will be armored.

 

the problem with the heal is that it is perfect. literally perfect out of the box. it means that oberon's heal will either have to match up to blessing to some degree in perfection or blessing will have to come down so that they can both be properly balanced. cuz as is, oberon becomes worthless for healing if he ends up with a trinity. (not to mention the possibility for other healing frames in the future)

 

except it can. maxed fleeting expertise nets you fast cheap, instant heals. if you hadn't noticed, the cast time now is much shorter than it was. it's nearly instant as is.

 

the main problem with it is that it isn't in line with other ults. what would the game be like if rhino's stomp hit everywhere all at once? or how bout world on fire? sound quake? should also mention i am not coming at this from a pvp perspective but pve. link is bs for pvp  but it wasn't made for that, nor has it been balanced for it.

[RealPandemonium]

There's really no reason to use Magnetic damage unless using a weapon with a high proc chance vs high level Robotics.  Toxin does the job better in most cases.  

[Tarille]

not as useful as cold, electric, or blast are.

 

except only a few things have shields of any merit anyway. ie, salad v. 

 

MOA often have most of their life total as shields. Neither Cold, Electric or Blast come anywhere close to being as effective at taking out shields with a single proc.

 

Instantly removing 75% of a targets shields with 1 singular proc is very useful, it's comparable to Viral (Which is 1 proc to instantly lose 50% health) except Magnetic is slightly more niche in that only Corpus and the Void has shields (Fusion MOA have pretty large shields and are annoying to deal with in the Void with the traditional setup of Corrosive + Cold)

 

 

ancients. and likely the incoming riot moa will be armored.

 

Only things that are armoured currently are Grineer (Ancients have health type that takes additional damage from Corrosive or Radiation much like the Ferrite and Alloy armour of the Grineer, but they're not armoured meaning that the proc from Corrosive does nothing)

 

From what I've seen of the new units, the only one that will be armoured (In the sense of being affected by Corrosive) is that new infested unit that spreads the clouds giving other infested units armour and reducing Tenno armour. That will be the only non-Grineer unit (Aside from Raptor) that will be affected by Corrosive procs.

 

 

 

the problem with the heal is that it is perfect. literally perfect out of the box. it means that oberon's heal will either have to match up to blessing to some degree in perfection or blessing will have to come down so that they can both be properly balanced. cuz as is, oberon becomes worthless for healing if he ends up with a trinity. (not to mention the possibility for other healing frames in the future)

 

So you're comparing a #4 from an ENTIRELY SUPPORT frame to a #3 from an HYBRID frame?

 

Oberon's healing doesn't become worthless with a Trinity in the team. For a start, outside a Trinity using rank 0 Blessing combined with Fleeting Expertise and no +duration (Making other skills worthless) there's going to be considerable time between full heals where Oberon's healing will be able to work.

 

Then of course there's the whole thing of "Maybe not every Trinity wants to just sit there spamming only Blessing?" - With the number of Link Trinities out there, there's considerable number of Trinities that actually get into the action and only really use Blessing when they themselves get low.

 

 

except it can. maxed fleeting expertise nets you fast cheap, instant heals. if you hadn't noticed, the cast time now is much shorter than it was. it's nearly instant as is.

 

Yes the cast time is much shorter than it was, but there's still a bit of time to cast, time in which people can die. I've seen countless complaints (It was even mentioned on a devstream) about people dying before they're able to react or dying mid-cast because of how quickly people's health can drop once they're in a dangerous situation.

 

 

the main problem with it is that it isn't in line with other ults. what would the game be like if rhino's stomp hit everywhere all at once? or how bout world on fire? sound quake?

 

Except you can't directly compare other ults like that. Other ults are offensive - They negatively affect enemies, meaning that range restrictions are required in order to make them balanced.

 

Trinities Blessing is the only support ultimate that only affects allies. Thus it's unique in having infinite range.

 

It's in line in the fact that it's powerful (Much like other ults) but isn't as strong at just wiping out everything in the room (All it does is heal and provide some damage reduction for a while) - It has much less impact on the battlefield and as such gets infinite range to ensure that it's not going to waste at any point.

 

 

 should also mention i am not coming at this from a pvp perspective but pve. link is bs for pvp  but it wasn't made for that, nor has it been balanced for it.

 

Link is OP in both. It allows for the rather stupid masochist build - Where you just pop on Link, run INTO ENEMIES and hurt yourself with explosives to kill enemies while being perfectly safe due to ridiculously high damage reduction.

 

Also, I mentioned PvP because you brought it up:

 

considering the upcoming pvp change to dark sector conflicts, this can be readily and easily abused, even with the gradual mod system you have in store for it. (in this order, blessing, fleeting expertise, rage, quick thinking. boom. game over, your team wins. they cant kill you or your team mates because you fix them all too well.)

 

One of your arguments was that it will be OP because of the PvP abuse aspect (Lots of things are going to be OP in PvP, it's the nature of a game that's built entirely around PvE and has gameplay where it's 1-4 vs 1000+ where the 1000+ has several magnitudes more health and armour than the few)