Ember Overheat = Loki Invisibility... Ember Without Overheat Is Loki Without Invisibility

[xXHunterzzzXx]

Lava would probably be for a male 'Ember'. 

 

I was thinking something about superheated air (like the firestorms in forest fires).

Reminds me of her ult :DDD

[xXHunterzzzXx]

Maybe she makes fire demon dogs that defend her :D

Edited July 17, 2014 by xXHunterzzzXx

[Renegade343]

Reminds me of her ult :DDD

Something else. 

 

World On Fire is just pillars of flames. Fire Blast will be something... majestic. 

[DeadScream]

Accelerant is useful, and you know what ? 
 

It makes the frame more dynamic and way funnier to use than before.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Lets talk about Ember.

>snip<

And do not say Accelerate is useful, Its not! I consider accelerant to be Ember radial disarm. Loki's radial disarm is okay but he still needs invisibility to survive. "But Accelerate stuns" you may say. If I wanted to stun enemies I would have picked Volt or some other frame that better at it.

 

Wow... just, no.  You just need to play better, that's all there is to it.  Loki can easily be played without Invisibility and won't suffer from not having it unless they're focused on melee, seeing as they'll lose potential damage by not running it.

 

Accelerant is useful, it is.  While Volt is the king of stunning, his damage is not greatly amplified by said stun.  Additionally you can mod up your weapons as Fire to synergize with Accelerant and gain more damage on them, something that again Volt cannot do.

 

That isn't to say Ember doesn't need attention, however her Fire Blast is the issue area of her kit as it's an overpriced and inefficient area denial skill.  I wouldn't say to scrap it however, but having it changed to somehow be more meaningful in usage would be very gnarly.

 

Dying before the 20 minute mark in any survival with any frame is wholly at the fault of the player.  Using that as a benchmark proves that you just aren't avoiding damage appropriately.

[Zeitzbach]

Notice how everything this guy touches is weak, bad and cannot survive or deal any damage?

 

Except Oberon who is perfectly good and strong.

[xXHunterzzzXx]

Wow... just, no.  You just need to play better, that's all there is to it.  Loki can easily be played without Invisibility and won't suffer from not having it unless they're focused on melee, seeing as they'll lose potential damage by not running it.

 

Accelerant is useful, it is.  While Volt is the king of stunning, his damage is not greatly amplified by said stun.  Additionally you can mod up your weapons as Fire to synergize with Accelerant and gain more damage on them, something that again Volt cannot do.

 

That isn't to say Ember doesn't need attention, however her Fire Blast is the issue area of her kit as it's an overpriced and inefficient area denial skill.  I wouldn't say to scrap it however, but having it changed to somehow be more meaningful in usage would be very gnarly.

 

Dying before the 20 minute mark in any survival with any frame is wholly at the fault of the player.  Using that as a benchmark proves that you just aren't avoiding damage appropriately.

I was thinking do you even know what you talking about my friend in the first two paragraphs?!? I was like wtf you talking about we are talking about defence and dps ,she needs armor and accelerant doesnt give enough dmg late game ..

[AlvaroXDM]

I personally believe you have your focus on the wrong place.

Accelerant is brutal. If you get it maxed, it's damage goes sky-rocket high, and you have a brutal chance to set enemies on fire, making the skill not only a huge DPS boost, but a panic button.

The problem, at least for me, doesn't rely on Accelerant. It's a neat skill to have, it's flaw is that even when it's a group buff, not everyone deals fire damage, making this "group buff" become exclusive for you. Because of this, maybe it would be better to make it linger, and continue to affect enemies. This would also combo pretty nicely with WoF.

 

The main problem is fireblast: Fireblast is just an underpowered version of WoF. Fireblast should be switched to a skill similar to Overheat. Something that can give Ember some survivability, she already has Accelerant + WoF, she DOES NOT need more DPS. She needs more toughness. If complete damage reduction would be too OP, make it so that melee enemies get seriously burnt, and ranged enemies deal, let's say, 30% less damage, and make it last quite a while, so that what would be a 50 energy power, due to the higher energy cost, doesn't become unusable (just like Contagion).

 

Another way to buff ember: Fire based weapons. Like an Ignis, but a good one, that can kill things that aren't infested. Mix fire with something good for corpus/grineer if you'd like. Make Ember take advantage of her Accelerant, while also bringing build diversity to the game :D.

Edited July 17, 2014 by AlvaroXDM

[RealPandemonium]

This comparison is laughable, but I'll humor the OP and say that Loki without Invisibility just Disarms all enemies and then walks backward shooting until they're all dead anyway.  

[Moderius]

 there are 7 topics about ember buff and all saying the same over and over..

 

And every thread is full of the same flawed arguments, like "overheat = invisibility".

 

Saying something over and over doesn't make it true.

[Rhiasu]

Comparing a "stealth" frame to an offense-caster type frame.

 

This community..

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I was thinking do you even know what you talking about my friend in the first two paragraphs?!? I was like wtf you talking about we are talking about defence and dps ,she needs armor and accelerant doesnt give enough dmg late game ..

 

Armor is a waste of time unless one feels like face-tanking as though their brain has been temporarily shut off.  Something that has slowly but surely been made apparent to me is that a majority of players around here don't know how to play defensively in this game at all.  I blame most of this on the gameplay model Warframe uses, allowing for spammable CCs that basically turn off combat in addition to having absurd offensive values for the player that allows them to one-shot everything till the enemies are blaringly overpowered.

 

Active movement styled gameplay, even with Ember, will easily allow you to dodge almost all incoming attacks if not all of them (you've got to be damn good for that last part though).  Having a wide area stun that you can cheaply pop?  That instantly resets things should you need it.  Accelerant is an outstanding defensive skill that provides a great deal of offensive synergy for the player should they choose to take advantage of it.

 

As far as the offensive side is concerned, how much "dmg" is enough when it comes to late game?  Something most fail to realize is that you aren't losing your normal offensive abilities during WoF.  Use Accelerant to boost the fire damage of your abilities and the fire damage you should have on your weaponry, then use both WoF and your weapon in tandem to wreck the HP bars of anything directly within your crosshairs and anything in your general vicinity.

 

To reiterate;  Ember does need some work done in regards to Fire Blast.  But she's not a horrible frame like many think.  For reference, long ago people thought Loki was terrible.  Simple answer, people are wrong a lot.

[OrphanMaker]

Really? 

 

I swear I have never died by that, even in high-level missions. 

I was talking about on defense missions little kid.

[OrphanMaker]

This comparison is laughable, but I'll humor the OP and say that Loki without Invisibility just Disarms all enemies and then walks backward shooting until they're all dead anyway. 

If you played with Loki you would know that his radial disarm is not as reliable as INVISIBILITY!! For one its to costly, two if you use streamline and fleeting expertise to lower its cost, you nerf invisibility and radial disarm durations, three the range is not that big because it is hard limited, four you can not use it on infested, five high level enemies will not die and beat squishy-little-Loki to death with their sticks, six the cast animation takes to long and must be cast on the ground (you will be killed casting it), and last invisibility is more effective for getting to extraction point in high level survival missions while out of air running on 5 hp!!! I can talk about this all day on why invisibility have more utility than radial disarm! I play with Loki everyday, and know all the pros and cons of Loki. This is why I have a Loki avatar, and you have an Excalibur avatar, so stick to giving advice on Excalibur and let us Loki players speak on Loki.

Edited July 18, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[Renegade343]

I was talking about on defense missions little kid.

Still have not died from one yet. 

 

Damaged, yes. Almost died, yes. Died, not yet (and I still do not know whether it is sheer luck or skill). 

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Uh, you have no experience in using Loki at all.

 

If you played with Loki you would know that his radial disarm is not as reliable as INVISIBILITY!! For one its to costly, two if you use streamline and fleeting expertise to lower its cost, you nerf invisibility and radial disarm durations, three the range is not that big because it is hard limited, four you can not use it on infested, five high level enemies will not die and beat squishy-little-Loki to death with their sticks, six the cast animation takes to long and must be cast on the ground, and last invisibility is more effective for getting to extraction point in high level survival missions while out of air running on 5 hp!!! I can talk about this all day on why invisibility have more utility than radial disarm! I play with Loki everyday, and know all the pros and cons of Loki. This is why I have a Loki avatar, and you have an Excalibur avatar, so stick to giving advice on Excalibur and let us Loki players speak on Loki.

 

...

 

Radial Disarm isn't effected by Duration mods.  Just the other day I ran an Interception solo for funsies to test a stupid theory out.  See, RD breaks the basic enemy AI in most cases and I figured that if I could just wait for all foes to spawn and kill none aside ones that have prods (corpus) to leave only gun users, I could disarm them and break their brains.

 

The result was me standing on a box for the entire duration of the wave while the stared at me, not ever trying to take any point all the way from near 0-100%.  Took a long time but I think you get the picture.

 

Also, RD works on some Infested, and being beat to death by stick is 10000% your fault at failing movement 101.

 

You are far from an expert on "how to Loki good", rather you're just the opposite.  You also "don't Ember good".

[OrphanMaker]

 

Damaged, yes. Almost died, yes. Died, not yet (and I still do not know whether it is sheer luck or skill). 

I am not talking about you I am talking about the pod, and do not even mention decoy because it to will be beat to death in a few seconds.

[Renegade343]

I am not talking about you I am talking about the pod, and do not even mention decoy because it to will be beat to death in a few seconds.

Probably because the damage scaling becomes quite high, maybe?

 

I thought that was a given at a certain point. 

[vaugahn]

This comparison is laughable, but I'll humor the OP and say that Loki without Invisibility just Disarms all enemies and then walks backward shooting until they're all dead anyway.  

 

Yeah, pretty much this. That was a bad comparison OP. I would like to see overheat come back, but why would you pick this to compare it to? Even without invis loki will still laugh his way through any level in the game with radial disarm and decoy.

[OrphanMaker]

 

Also, RD works on some Infested, and being beat to death by stick is 10000% your fault at failing movement 101.

 

You are far from an expert on "how to Loki good", rather you're just the opposite.  You also "don't Ember good".

What? I dont get beat to death by sticks, anyways if you played with Loki enough on high level missions... Serious high level missions, you would know that all damage will fall off, so if you do radial disarm the enemies they will swarm. At high level, enemies become dps sponges to such an extant that my 10k angstrum only does 10% damage to them. You will run out of ammo before you will kill then. Then whats next, "trusty old melee." Then you will attempt to kill them. while channeling losing all your energy, and not kill a thing. Then they will have swarmed you by then. Then they will beat you to death with their sticks. Their sticks damage will have been scaled to do a lot of damage by then, also you will be beaten by of mob. So can Loki still be killed using radial disarm yes. You will be better off using invisibility, so you can get your 4x multiplier. 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Letter13
Let's not insult others

[vaugahn]

What? I dont get beat to death by sticks, anyways if you played with Loki enough on high level missions... Serious high level missions, you would know that all damage will fall off, so if you do radial disarm the enemies they will swarm. At high level, enemies become dps sponges to such an extant that my 10k angstrum only does 10% damage to them. You will run out of ammo before you will kill then. Then whats next, "trusty old melee." Then you will attempt to kill them. while channeling losing all your energy, and not kill a thing. Then they will have swarmed you by then. Then they will beat you to death with their sticks. Their sticks damage will have been scaled to do a lot of damage by then, also you will be beaten by of mob. So can Loki still be killed using radial disarm yes. You will be better off using invisibility, so you can get your 4x multiplier.

 

I'm honestly convinced you've never played against enemies past level 30.

[Arunafeltz]

Accelerant isn't useful? I see pure Fire critical-build weapons aren't exactly in fashion.

[RealPandemonium]

If you played with Loki you would know that his radial disarm is not as reliable as INVISIBILITY!! For one its to costly, two if you use streamline and fleeting expertise to lower its cost, you nerf invisibility and radial disarm durations, three the range is not that big because it is hard limited, four you can not use it on infested, five high level enemies will not die and beat squishy-little-Loki to death with their sticks, six the cast animation takes to long and must be cast on the ground (you will be killed casting it), and last invisibility is more effective for getting to extraction point in high level survival missions while out of air running on 5 hp!!! I can talk about this all day on why invisibility have more utility than radial disarm! I play with Loki everyday, and know all the pros and cons of Loki. This is why I have a Loki avatar, and you have an Excalibur avatar, so stick to giving advice on Excalibur and let us Loki players speak on Loki.

I'm just saying, Loki would still be godlike even without Invisibility.  Radial Disarm's effect is permanent, btw.  I suggest using the wiki to understand game mechanics before making silly forum posts that confuse others.  

[Azawarau]

Loki is a utility frame with no damage

 

Ember is a glass cannon

 

Overheat gives DR and invisibility makes you difficult to detect

 

Theyre entirely different in playstyle and utility and your comparison lacks ground

 

That being said

 

If overheat were to return it wouldnt fix embers problems

 

WoF stiill has too short a duration and too short a range to be effective even after modding every slot for that power alone,sacrificing your defense and efficiency of other skills along the way

 

All overheat would do is let people face tank with guns and spam accelerant in easy mode because they dont cae anymore

 

Everyone that has suggested it idnt do so with balance in mind

 

Not a single one mentioned making the DR lower in the OP or combining it with fireblast to give her a huge DR when she needed time to cool off <Irony

[Mimibomber]

Accelerant hasnt got that much uses accept early damage.. I will look how tou go to t4 survival 50 mins,and what your damage will be.. Ember needs a complete buff due to the fact that she is a glass cannon frame, and glass cannons must not come close to enemy but ember has to come close in order to do damage that is the main problem why people cry.. AND PLEASE JUST LEAVE THE TOPIC PEOPLE ARE HERE WHICH ARE FOR IDEA AND NOT LIKE YOU WHICH JUST TROLL SERIOUSLY.. there are 7 topics about ember buff and all saying the same over and over.. She needs somesort of Hp,Armor,Shield buff, because if we compare her with other frames like Rhino she cant even be compared because of how mobile,strong,good AoE,and a damage buff Rhino has., Not to meantion other frames like Banshee,Trinity,Saryn who feel uncomfortable to play

Umm what's so bad about these top tier ladies ?