Ember Overheat = Loki Invisibility... Ember Without Overheat Is Loki Without Invisibility

[Cleesus]

Lol look who thinks he's king of the forum trolls. You've been spending too much time hanging out in the exclusives threads. In normal threads its not legit to brow beat somebody especially in a my opinion is more right than your opinion bases. What she is and isnt, can't be set in stone by you or de anyway since players will build her however they please and those of us who actually played her as a caster tank can tell you we where right to do so. Old ember was 10x more viable than this one. Sure you can walk into a room and spam 2 and 4 but then you might have to actually leave mercury and from somebody who used to be able to tank t3 voids no sweat this "stick to a archtype" nonsense is bs when they don't hold the same concept of balance to 99% of everything else. While tanking isn't usually part of being a caster a survival skill is absolutly a must and if you think hitting accelerant every few second is acceptable cc then I pity you for never having tried a decent cc frame.

 

Well they summed it up pretty well.

 

Plus if you guys wanna play this caster cant have defense nonsense then lets just ignore that both Frost and volt who are also casters both have defensive shields/powers that they cant spam to increase their survivability while Ember has nothing after that joke of a "buff" months ago. Accelrant isnt useful and you shouldn't have  to spam a separate skill to get basic damage out of your power, no other frame has to do so and the skills cc is laughable.

Edited July 19, 2014 by theclinton

[GTG3000]

 

Overheat is flat out useless. Even fireball does a better job at dealing damage.

 

 

Using Overheat for the damage... GENIUS!

 

I think people should stop trying to argue that Accelerant is inherently bad to point out that Overheat would be really nice to have back. Overheat was a godly skill, that made Ember an amazing caster/tank with DoT capabilities and health to make that DoT work, and it would really be nice to have it back in some way, but it really doesn't make accelerant a bad skill. It's really not. It's not what the Ember crowd expected OR needed back in the day though, so it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. And it requires loads of spamming, which isn't always good.

 

At the end of the day, radical changes like that ARE a spit into the face of people who use the warframe extensively, there's no weaseling around that really, but it doesn't necessarily make them bad. I'd love to see Overheat return as much as the other guy, maybe with some DR caps and some negative influences on your powers, but doing so without keeping Accelerant would be wrong as well, since it has it's own crowd now, and all.

 

So, I kinda support the issue. But really, what can we hope for? Scott being reasonable?

[Azawarau]

Lol look who thinks he's king of the forum trolls. You've been spending too much time hanging out in the exclusives threads. In normal threads its not legit to brow beat somebody especially in a my opinion is more right than your opinion bases. What she is and isnt, can't be set in stone by you or de anyway since players will build her however they please and those of us who actually played her as a caster tank can tell you we where right to do so. Old ember was 10x more viable than this one. Sure you can walk into a room and spam 2 and 4 but then you might have to actually leave mercury and from somebody who used to be able to tank t3 voids no sweat this "stick to a archtype" nonsense is bs when they don't hold the same concept of balance to 99% of everything else. While tanking isn't usually part of being a caster a survival skill is absolutly a must and if you think hitting accelerant every few second is acceptable cc then I pity you for never having tried a decent cc frame.

Somehow missed this

 

Ever consider that being 10x more viable makes you more viable than anything else

 

You know

 

That thing called OP that we try to avoid when we know better than to make such mistakes in games

[xXHunterzzzXx]

Using Overheat for the damage... GENIUS!

I think people should stop trying to argue that Accelerant is inherently bad to point out that Overheat would be really nice to have back. Overheat was a godly skill, that made Ember an amazing caster/tank with DoT capabilities and health to make that DoT work, and it would really be nice to have it back in some way, but it really doesn't make accelerant a bad skill. It's really not. It's not what the Ember crowd expected OR needed back in the day though, so it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. And it requires loads of spamming, which isn't always good.

At the end of the day, radical changes like that ARE a spit into the face of people who use the warframe extensively, there's no weaseling around that really, but it doesn't necessarily make them bad. I'd love to see Overheat return as much as the other guy, maybe with some DR caps and some negative influences on your powers, but doing so without keeping Accelerant would be wrong as well, since it has it's own crowd now, and all.

So, I kinda support the issue. But really, what can we hope for? Scott being reasonable?

Ember doesnt have damage..No good AoE(except little damage AoE)And no defence...She is glass cannon lol, and ger skills are close range thats why everyone is crying.... Edited July 19, 2014 by xXHunterzzzXx

[Azawarau]

Ember doesnt have damage..No good AoE(except little damage AoE)And no defence...She is glass cannon lol, and ger skills are close range thats why everyone is crying....

She has accelerant and fireball and WoF for damage

 

Accelerant for AoE stun and WoF for Aoe dmg with fireball being a bit of both on a smaller range

[GTG3000]

Well, I won't say there is no argument about Overheat being a needed skill for someone who relies on hugging her enemies and DoTting them to death, but there are people who manage to use Accelerant to it's potential and like it, so we can't quite declare her completely useless.

 

I know I can't use her current skillset quite as effectively as I should, but other people are able to procure evidence that she is a usable, if incredibly spam-oriented, glass cannon.

[Tatersail]

accelerate is the only reason ember works

[Azawarau]

accelerate is the only reason ember works

Snow globe is the only reason frost works

 

Desecrate is the only reason Nekros works

 

Radial blind is the only reason Excalibro works

[GTG3000]

accelerate is the only reason ember works

 

And before, Overheat was the only reason Ember worked, but for a different reason. 

Accelerant gives her abilities enough damage to do their thing, Overheat gave her enough survivability to do her thing, the only difference being in shift from DoT to burst damage with change from overheat to accelerant. It could be maintained if DE would start making alternative skills for warframes as they promiced they would.

[Renegade343]

What about we have this instead: 

 

Fire Blast will still have its ring, but enemies that are X meters away from the circumference of the ring will take Fire damage over time, increasing as they get closer to the ring (can be modified by Warframe Power Stretch and Power Strength mods). When Ember is within the ring, she will gain slight damage reduction (4%/8%/12%/16%) which cannot be increased by Power Strength mods. 

 

That way, Fire Blast can deal some damage while keeping Ember a bit more alive when she needs it. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by Renegade343

[Semshol]

Lets talk about Ember. A lot of people love Ember. I love Ember... She's Hott!! I like to look at her pose with my dual vastos. I be like "my Ember so sexy!" But now in all seriousness she is terrible! I just have to say it. When I first got ember, I could remember the hype and beauty she had. I can remember while seeing her on a map for the first time, I asked my friend "who is that killing everything like that, shes Op." My friend, at his laptop replied "ooowwww ow, thats Ember!" I was like dang! Now that was about a year ago. Because of school work I have been off and on with warframe. Now about 3 months ago I started back playing warframe (because it was the end of my semester). I worked hard and in about a weeks I built Ember prime. After building her and remembering the hype... I was disappointed. I had learned she was now a relic. She was a relic of damage 1.0 when elementals proc-ed 100% and fire damage was king (like all elemental). Now in damage 2.0, she is darn near useless. Now I could remember Overheat, and went to use it but got some invisible mist crap.. It made me Mad!!! I was okay with Ember having 15 armor and being super weak, when i first heard about her overheat ability. I figured overheat was to the equivalent of Loki invisibility. Invisibility makes  Loki darn near invincible. But since Ember do not have overheat, since fire damage does little to nothing, since world on fire is not guaranteed to hit, since world on fire is not guaranteed to proc. Ember is now completely useless. It makes me mad that I have a warframe that have little to no use! And do not say Accelerate is useful, Its not! I consider accelerant to be Ember radial disarm. Loki's radial disarm is okay but he still needs invisibility to survive. "But Accelerate stuns" you may say. If I wanted to stun enemies I would have picked Volt or some other frame that better at it.

 

Last but most of all, why does world on fire take so long to cast!

 

You may be thinking she is good, she deal a lot damage... Thats true (on low levels), but the problem is she can not survive. She need an ability that aids in her survivability! All damage abilities fall off and the only ones that are useful are the one that aid in survivability!

 

PS It would be great if DE would give us both cards. This wold give us the ability to use ember to our playing style. For those of you that like Accelerant, use Accelerant.  And for those of us who like Overheat, we will use Overheat... Now everybody can be happy.

 

*Sigh* I hate these types of stupid threads, just like every other stupid thread that says 'my frame can't blah blah, QQ, buff plz OMG'

 

Okay, I'm going to teach you how to make a pro Ember. Use the normal ember NOT prime (because the polarities are different and it affects the gorram build)

 

Aura: Corrosive Projection (Swap out for Energy Siphon if you're bad with energy, but with this build abilities are cheap)

 

Mods:

 

- Redirection (Max)

- Vitality (Max)

- Streamline (Max)

- Fleeting Expertise (Max)

- Blind Rage (RANK 7 ONLY please, no more, no less)

- Intensify (Max)

- Flow (Max - up to you really)

- Equilibrium (Or Rush depending on your style, I always choose Equilibrium in my builds, rank 7) [if you lag a lot, switch to Continuity so your accelerant lasts longer]

- Accelerant

- Fireball

 

How to Play:

 

This build is very powerful but it only works with ONE PRIMARY WEAPON. Do I need to say it again? DO NOT BRING ALONG A DIFFERENT PRIMARY! 

 

The primary of choice is Ignis. Why? It works with your abilities.

 

How to play is very simple. Ember see horde? Accelerant (the duration is going to be 6 seconds so please be careful). Then burn them with Ignis you will automatically get 500% damage on all enemies. [Look up a separate guide on how to build Ignis, I won't be going into details].

 

See big strong heavy unit? Accelerant, then burn with Fireball. Your Fireballs should be doing approximately 4,000 raw heat damage thanks to Accelerant 5*800 = 4,000 and of course it has a nasty AoE to help you out. Please note you can Fireball while reloading (you used to be able to, I haven't tested since I'm focusing on Nekros, Nyx and Loki at the moment)

 

Sundry Questions:

 

- Why no world on fire??? WHY???? - It doesn't scale well into late-game, sorry, it's the truth.

 

- Why no Fire Ring thingy??? WHY??? - If you need to ask that question, please uninstall the game.

 

- Doesn't the duration -60% hurt Accelerant? If everything isn't burned to death in 6 seconds...you will run into a LOT of ammo problems. Ignis eats ammo like it's a breakfast buffet. So if you want to buff duration, sacrifice your equilibrium for a duration buff, but you will need a ammo mutation for your Ignis.

 

Conclusion:

 

Play ember as a Pyro from TF2, you will not regret it.

[RealPandemonium]

build

Just do a max damage:energy 57%/75% build like you would for any damage dealer.  Add Stretch to make Accelerant safe and you're in business.

 

Stuff like Blind Rage beyond rank 2 and Flow is superfluous and a waste of energy and mod space.  Flow is for QT, not power spamming.  

Edited July 24, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Semshol]

Just do a max damage:energy 57%/75% build like you would for any damage dealer.  Add Stretch to make Accelerant safe and you're in business.

 

My build is max damage, although arguably you could push out 30% more damage, it really isn't worth it considering ability cost would rise. Right now you get more out of just throwing 2 fireballs instead of one.

 

Stretch also doesn't help because the range of Ignis is 20m, so you want to only be dousing the targets you can reach. Which also saves a mod slot :)

 

Blind Rage at Rank 7 is a necessity in order to reach 100% increase in ability strength. Using the build, it gives you 50% energy efficiency and 100% extra damage with -60% duration). Flow is used to hold energy in reserve since you're not going in with a Energy Siphon. ARGUABLY, you could replace it with Continuity to help duration out if you're a very energy efficient Ember, I am not.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Semshol

[Hayzemet]

She is weak. You can say all you want, but she is, no reliable cc, missearble damage type, fragile. I used to play her all the time, obviously overheat was my favorite ability, she was versatile back then, nowadays there is only one kind of ember, damage ember, thats boring.

[RealPandemonium]

My build is max damage, although arguably you could push out 30% more damage, it really isn't worth it considering ability cost would rise. Right now you get more out of just throwing 2 fireballs instead of one.

 

Stretch also doesn't help because the range of Ignis is 20m, so you want to only be dousing the targets you can reach. Which also saves a mod slot :)

 

Blind Rage at Rank 7 is a necessity in order to reach 100% increase in ability strength. Using the build, it gives you 50% energy efficiency and 100% extra damage with -60% duration). Flow is used to hold energy in reserve since you're not going in with a Energy Siphon. ARGUABLY, you could replace it with Continuity to help duration out if you're a very energy efficient Ember, I am not.

It is possible to achieve 57% bonus power strength while still staying at the 75% efficiency cap by maxing both efficiency mods and using only rank 2 Blind Rage.  That gives you the most damage per cast of any build.  There's no point in reaching 100% bonus damage if  that also halves the number of ability casts; I have only 57% bonus strength but I can cast twice as many abilities as you can.  Thus, using more Blind Rage is pointless because it lowers the number of ability uses available overall and forces you to equip Flow to protect against energy droughts.  I use Stretch to make Accelerant reach farther to more effectively protect me with its stuns.  Btw, Ignis is not the only weapon suited for Ember; any weapon with a high base damage (hi Boltor Prime) can stack fire mods to great effect along with Accelerant.  

[Semshol]

It is possible to achieve 57% bonus power strength while still staying at the 75% efficiency cap by maxing both efficiency mods and using only rank 2 Blind Rage.  That gives you the most damage per cast of any build.  There's no point in reaching 100% bonus damage if  that also halves the number of ability casts; I have only 57% bonus strength but I can cast twice as many abilities as you can.  Thus, using more Blind Rage is pointless because it lowers the number of ability uses available overall and forces you to equip Flow to protect against energy droughts.  I use Stretch to make Accelerant reach farther to more effectively protect me with its stuns.  Btw, Ignis is not the only weapon suited for Ember; any weapon with a high base damage (hi Boltor Prime) can stack fire mods to great effect along with Accelerant.  

 

You can try doing it this way, but it won't maximize. Of course, everyone has their own play-style and beliefs.

[OrphanMaker]

I have just read all of the comments.

 

On Ember

The truth of the matter is Ember have no Survivability. She is broken. Accelerate is a joke of an ability. Accelerant is a Band-Aid ability. The DE tried to nerf Ember by taking away her Overheat ability. In damage 1.0 Ember was very powerful so she was nerfed. Accelerant was her Overheat replacment. Accelerant is a nerf not a buff. Now since we have damage 2.0, Ember is not as effective as she was before. Fire based damage was nerfed, as was all elemental damage types. So now Ember is double nerfed. The DE needs to bring back, Overheat, because fire was nerfed, and Ember will not be to op, like I have always said, we need Overheat back as a choice mod. This will allow player to chose their abilities based on their playing styles. I, for one, would have have survivability than a quick stun or "increased fire damage."

 

Now, on accelerant, I think accelerant should not be ember proc ability. Ember should not be procing enemies with stun. Fireblast, as of now, is not that good, so it should replace accelerant as the stun procer. This new fireblast should be used to stun enemies with fire.

 

Last, instead of relying on accelerant to buff embers weak abilities, just make her abilities stronger. If her abilities are made stronger  accelerant can go in the trash anyways.

Edited July 24, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[OrphanMaker]

Can't read this BS thread after this post. OP clearly is arrogant and thinks he's better than he actually is...

 

You're the one not deserving to use that avatar boy.

 

"Loki's radial disarm is okay but he still needs invisibility to survive." What BS?

 

My observation

Ok, nuff about that...from here on out no more name calling.

 

Ok Accelerant is a good ability, but we really need Overheat back. To be honest we could do with both. Maybe, fireblast should be the new accelerant. Fireblast should proc fire for stun, and give a fire damage multiplier, like accelerant.

Edited July 25, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[Azawarau]

She is weak. You can say all you want, but she is, no reliable cc, missearble damage type, fragile. I used to play her all the time, obviously overheat was my favorite ability, she was versatile back then, nowadays there is only one kind of ember, damage ember, thats boring.

Accelerant spam can keep large groups down forever and gives you 500% damage boost

 

Whats not to love?

 

Fire damage is entirely neutral on most faction

 

Itll never have its damage lowered except by proto shields iirc making it a strong all rounder

 

There are at least 3 builds i can post from the top of m head that involve very different styles of gameplay and are all fairly end game in their own right as well

 

You should think outside of the box whn modding if you can only make a damage ember build

[Hayzemet]

Accelerant spam can keep large groups down forever and gives you 500% damage boost

 

Whats not to love?

 

Fire damage is entirely neutral on most faction

 

Itll never have its damage lowered except by proto shields iirc making it a strong all rounder

 

There are at least 3 builds i can post from the top of m head that involve very different styles of gameplay and are all fairly end game in their own right as well

 

You should think outside of the box whn modding if you can only make a damage ember build

Ohh really ... enlighten me then c:

 

And she dies really fast, no matter what you do they always die-

Edited July 24, 2014 by Hayzemet

[Nira]

OP, interesting that you should cite Accelerant as such an ineffective ability, if you consider it applies +250% damage to fire-based abilities and weapons, with strength mods increasing the multiplier even further. Its stun effect is also akin to Radial Blind, one of the top crowd control abilities in the game.

 

I never used Ember back in the days of Overheat so can't comment on the comparison, though I will say my experiences with her were a bit lacklustre. She's not bad, but she's not great either. However I'd say Accelerant is probably the most important ability on her right now.

 

One last note, I will say I found [edit] the "ring" stage of Fire Blast really quite useless. Far too small of an effective area where enemies can take damage. Though I guess the fire proc from the initial blast is useful.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Dualice

[Azawarau]

Ohh really ... enlighten me then c:

 

And she dies really fast, no matter what you do they always die-

Ok

 

Dont min max her

 

ive said this a thousand times already and noone takes it to heart

 

If you want an effective WoF your best options are mid rank narrow minded with stretch. Now that gets you 16ish seconds of WoF with regular range

 

After this you can take 2 routes

 

Focus on damage by hitting up blind rage,intensify, and accelerant along with vitality and rage to really take that risk reward factor up

 

Or use fleeting expertise with no defensive mods to play a bit more on the accelerant spam side with fire build weapons

 

Theres another way thats accelerant spam heavy and energy efficient that realpanda will tel you all about sooner or later

 

Accelerant + Melee is amazing BW

[vaugahn]

My observation

 

I have been posting in these forums for about 2 months now. All I can say is it is full of narrow-minded, self-absorbed, know-it-all, trolls that run off many players. The first thing they do is start insulting the op.

In my time reading these forums I have noticed it is always the same few people. I will say no names. These few people never voice a constructive well observed opinion. These few people, seem to read posts looking for something to disagree with, and if they can not find something to disagree about, they quickly jump to insulting or petty remarks.

 

Aren't you the same guy who said Oberon was one of the best frames in the game?

[OrphanMaker]

Aren't you the same guy who said Oberon was one of the best frames in the game?

Oberon is pretty good, but he could use a little work.

 

FireBlast and Accelerant should be combined. The new fireblast should proc fire, and give a 2x multiplier on all fire based damage. Overheat should be brought back, and give a 75% damage negator, and a sligth speed boost. Overheat should only be affected by duration mods. This will keep players from increasing the damage negation to high, but a damage negation of 90% is not overpowered either inconsideration Ember is glass.

Edited July 25, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

Oberon is pretty good, but he could use a little work.

 

FireBlast and Accelerant should be combined. The new fireblast should proc fire, and give a 2x multiplier on all fire based damage. Overheat should be brought back, and give a 75% damage negator, and a sligth speed boost. Overheat should only be affected by duration mods. This will keep players from increasing the damage negation to high, but a damage negation of 90% is not overpowered either inconsideration Ember is glass.

 

 

A momentary sidebar for the underlined:  Hahahahahahaha no.  A flat 90% DR is overpowered.  Anyways now that that is out of the way onto the rest.

That's actually a fairly interesting proposition, and I'm not wholly against it either.  Though I think the idea behind Ember doesn't really just fit that well with straight high %DR tanking, in tandem with it being the most boring form of damage mitigation albeit an easy one to implement.  But I'm completely on board with combining both Fireblast and Accelerant's effects into the same skill, though I'd say why not increase the interest factor of it all?

 

New Fireblast (3) Cost 100:  Ember strikes the ground and generates a ring of intense flames, the initial shockwave of this attack radiates outward with great force, briefly stunning foes and making them more susceptible to fire damage.  Periodically the ring of fire may generate another radial blast if it is stricken by either a Fireball or World on Fire.

 

So yeah, now ember has two effective ultimates.  As explained above, each Fireblast's initial cast acts like a combination of her current 3 and 2, and every let's say 9 seconds (may need to be tweaked for balancing) an orb will be generated within the ring, striking it with a Fireball or an explosion from World on Fire will generate another Accelerant shockwave, this effect repeating however many times possible for the skill's duration.  Still not sure whether or not it should be allowed to be recast an infinite number of times or not, currently I'm thinking yes due to its raised cost however.

 

But what about her 2 slot?  It's not a secret that I'm against the direct return of Overheat, its old form was just not solid but the concept behind the skill is still a cool one.  Giving Ember a sort of self buff by lighting herself ablaze directly just rings of coolness, but a flat +X% DR is... well it just doesn't fit a pyromancer-esque theme to me.  I'm almost thinking of having it be a toggle ability with the following mechanics, mind you this is all just off the top of my head, so feel free to tell me my idea is absolute garbage.

 

New Overheat (2) Cost 50:  When activated, Ember coats herself in a thin haze of wildfire dealing minor damage to any nearby foes with a chance to set them alight as well as slightly increasing her movement speed and giving her a small increase to maximum shielding and health.  All of these boosts increase overtime as long as Overheat is kept active.

 

So yeah, I don't have any solid numbers there because I've put very little thought into the ability.  But just giving Ember a simple +X% DR doesn't feel very fiery, but turning her into a raging inferno does.