Ships Are A Step Backwards In Player Experience

[LukeAura]

Give it some time, you'll get used to it and will use it just as quickly as the old one.

Impossible. There are two more layers of UI to go through, and buttons now take far longer to load in for things like weapon selecting. 

[DSpite]

he didn't make a generalization. He made both a personal observation and a notation regarding functionality... which is exactly what this FEEDBACK section should be all about.

 

1. Ships DON'T add any story... just alot of extra graphics... if you like hanging out in your house in other games... ships are an awesome addition for you... however if your focus is on getting back into the action then ... well ships are just forcing you to waste time.

 

2. He points out that the new UI requires more clicks to do the same tasks that took 1 Click in U13.  Thats a pretty clear comment and there is nothing "general" about it.

 

If you're going to blast someone for posting at least be constructive or at least pretend to have read and comprehended what they posted.

 

1) The ship adds tons of story. You're just annoyed you have to learn to drive a new UI.

2) I'm sorry, were you here when the game changed from a MOD screen full of lines and circles to the card system? Did you also cry in the forums then? Please link where I'd like to read that one for a laugh as well.

 

"comprehended what they posted."

 

He typed TWO Lines:

 

"Give us an option to use the old UI please."

* Hilarious, as if THAT will happen. Totally reasonable and logical request to get the ball rolling. Followed by

 

"Ships are unnecessary and add no functionality while making using the old functions take more time and energy."

* His personal opinion, not mine, hence I can blast it as much as I like. Must be taxing when a free to play game changes things. Whats next? Complaining to Facebook when they change you home page?

 

There was no constructive criticism in the OP, it basically said "waaaaah! Change it back!". Pretty sure I can be as critical as I like about it.

Maybe if he listed specific arguments, maybe, just maybe, I'd take it seriously.

 

If some of you knuckle heads actually had any idea what happens in EVE Online when changes happen there, maybe you would understand how many people sound like cry babies in this forums.

[Methanoid]

WAT 

 

jk i think they're really cool and i like them personally :) 

yeah but he said "Ships are unnecessary and add no functionality" and hes not wrong, he didnt say they werent cool, they just dont add anything to the game.

[Methanoid]

Problem : "ships are a step back in player experience"

 

Actuality : "In my opinion, ships are a step back in player experience"

 

"A generalization is defined as a broad statement or an idea that applies to a group of people or things. Oftentimes, generalizations are not entirely true, because there may be examples of individuals or situations wherein the generalization does not apply. "

 

"I like the ship fine", so

 

pretty sure my original statement is correct.

 

the dood means the addition of a walk around menu system "the ship" adds nothing new to the game thats of use, in otherwords if you deleted the whole ship thing right now, youd lose nothing, because nothing was added functionality wise.

 

he isnt saying its not pretty or flashy looking, hes just saying it adds nothing new to the game, we cant suddenly do something new we couldnt do before.

[vaugahn]

the dood means the addition of a walk around menu system "the ship" adds nothing new to the game thats of use, in otherwords if you deleted the whole ship thing right now, youd lose nothing, because nothing was added functionality wise.

 

he isnt saying its not pretty or flashy looking, hes just saying it adds nothing new to the game, we cant suddenly do something new we couldnt do before.

It's called immersion, and it's a thing this game desperately needed.

[Methanoid]

1) There was no constructive criticism in the OP, it basically said "waaaaah! Change it back!". Pretty sure I can be as critical as I like about it.

Maybe if he listed specific arguments, maybe, just maybe, I'd take it seriously.

 

2) If some of you knuckle heads actually had any idea what happens in EVE Online when changes happen there, maybe you would understand how many people sound like cry babies in this forums.

 

1) he isnt alone, theres LOTS of people saying the same stuff which speaks volumes, theres plenty of "specifics" posted elsewhere in numerous threads, he doesnt have to start a new one.

 

2) i started eve online in jul'2003 and ive seen plenty of changes to eve, even eves eventual failed walking in stations which became the abortive Captains Quarters was just as useless, pretty much everyone went "wow pretty" then disabled the entire thing to use the old menu system.  But thats what we have now, warframe's new Ship UI, is a near carbon copy of eve's Captains Quarters and its largely pointless in both.

[Methanoid]

It's called immersion, and it's a thing this game desperately needed.

 

you dont need immersion in menus, you need immersion in the missions, menus are made to do what you want quickly and easily, not make things take more time and leave out stuff you had easy access too previously.

 

unless your of the creed of players that thinks as long as somethings shiney and pretty then its an upgrade.

[Triburos]

Can't please everyone, can yah DE?

 

I have my nitpicks with the ships, but they're hardly a huge step back. Biggest problem I have is with the foundry displaying material values. Golly gee, these ships sure do suck! They can't be salvaged at all.

 

 

Oh- and the on-board A.I is a problem as well. Other than those two things, I have no issue with it at all.

 

"Great. It's hatching"

"Great. It's hatching"

"Great. It's hatching"

"Great. It's hatching"

[Methanoid]

Can't please everyone, can yah DE?

 

I have my nitpicks with the ships, but they're hardly a huge step back. Biggest problem I have is with the foundry displaying material values. Golly gee, these ships sure do suck! They can't be salvaged at all.

 

oh yeah dont get me wrong, imho the UI is a step back, the existance of the ships tho is nto a step back, the ships are an issue because they dont add anything to your game, they are a lot of pretty sparkly glitter but you cant do anything new with them that you couldnt do in U13.x, ppl were expecting a "ship" to do something more than just be a 3d walkaround menu.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Methanoid

[vaugahn]

you dont need immersion in menus, you need immersion in the missions, menus are made to do what you want quickly and easily, not make things take more time and leave out stuff you had easy access too previously.

 

unless your of the creed of players that thinks as long as somethings shiney and pretty then its an upgrade.

 

Ok first, let's just try and move past personal attacks.

 

Second, your comparisons to eve are essentially correct but ultimately flawed. Eve is a game that's 90% menus, so they need efficiency. They also have a game where the dynamics of the universe aren't decided by game lore but by players.

 

Warframe is a game where menus are much less important, and the dynamics of the universe are decided by game lore. This ship provides badly-needed world building, and while it's not currently perfect I dare you to name an update that was perfect when it was first released.

[Excalichobbs]

Perhaps not a step backwards, but I too feel that ships are taking a step in the wrong direction.

True, a lot of players were asking for ships, but I wonder how many were asking for ships that totally revamped the UI. I feel the request was more akin to asking for player housing, where it was more for customization/a personal dojo where you can swim in your mountains of Alloy Plates a la Scrooge McDuck.

Honestly, I feel rather claustrophobic in these new ships. I loved the feeling from the previous UI that I transcended space and literally watched over the solar system, like some sort of guardian. Now, I'm just some silly tin man in a tin can, just like all the other tin cans/space centipedes floating outside my window. It feels like I'm sitting in an orbital parking now waiting for someone to leave so I can take their spot.

I don't want to spend more time in these new ships. I play warframe to be on the ground, running and shooting stuff, scanning the pretty pinecones, bleeding out, not walking around a small, metal can for the sake of what, "immersion"?

For additional immersion, we should add how we get ready for deployment, like lying down in that tube thing on the bottom of the Liset. Maybe show how we get to the initial grate at the start of some of the interior missions (even more running! also, chance to meet the grate prime!). Maybe do some ship maintenance, like oil changes or cleaning the space barnacles off of the Liset's hull. Maybe water your plants, go to the bathroom, watch Game of Thrones, feed your puppy... oh right.

Storywise? I see this as a mere footnote in the grander story that adds nothing substantial. Maybe if it was a helicarrier or something a la S.H.I.E.L.D. where you can interact with other folks and feels like a community, but right now it feels like I'm being told the story of my '97 Toyota and the glorious tale of my 13 hour drive to Atlanta and how my loadout included my primary bottle water, bubblegum secondary, and melee mp3 player full of music.

tl;dr Yeah, reading more than a few sentences can be tiring.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Excalichobbs

[Triburos]

oh yeah dont get me wrong, imho the UI is a step back, the existance of the ships tho is nto a step back, the ships are an issue because they dont add anything to your game, they are a lot of pretty sparkly glitter but you cant do anything new with them that you couldnt do in U13.x, ppl were expecting a "ship" to do something more than just be a 3d walkaround menu.

Ships might have a bigger role in the future. I'd hope so anyways.

 

But I think most of the ship problems aren't problems with the ship at all like you said; I think it's the new U.I that is causing some of this debate.

 

The foundry U.I is the problem for me. The fact that changing the match making option is in such an obscure position is a problem as well, but the ships themselves are fine, bar the A.I looping his voice clips about the Kubrow over and over.

 

Are ships unessessary? Yes. Do they hurt anything? I don't think so. You can still get around just fine with the ESC menu after all, and other than a few nitpicks like "it takes more clicks to get from point A to point B", the ships aren't hurting much.

 

The U.I is the thing with the most flaws. The ship is just the thing holding all the menus now.

[LukeAura]

Can't please everyone, can yah DE?

 

I have my nitpicks with the ships, but they're hardly a huge step back. Biggest problem I have is with the foundry displaying material values. Golly gee, these ships sure do suck! They can't be salvaged at all.

It's a pretty big step back in terms of efficiency and organization. 

As a menu system, it's pretty bad, as a home base it does have a certain charm. 

Another problem is now that the Tenno stands in front of the screen in the esc quick access menu everything is much smaller and some things get partially covered by frames. 

I almost think it would be best if sitting in the pilot seat or using the esc key would bring up the old menu on the front window would work perfectly, just remove the frame kneeling in the background.  You can even keep everything else in the rest of the ship for the players that want it. 

[Methanoid]

Ok first, let's just try and move past personal attacks.

 

Second, your comparisons to eve are essentially correct but ultimately flawed. Eve is a game that's 90% menus, so they need efficiency. They also have a game where the dynamics of the universe aren't decided by game lore but by players.

 

Warframe is a game where menus are much less important, and the dynamics of the universe are decided by game lore. This ship provides badly-needed world building, and while it's not currently perfect I dare you to name an update that was perfect when it was first released.

 

ok but unless your in a mission then warframe is also all about menus, moreso now in this new system, in fact its menu and submenu reliance has increased needlessly, yeah eve has lots of menus during actual gameplay and i get what you mean in that example but the warframe ship mirrors eves captains quarters perfectly, as in both are "out of combat" menu systems.

 

the "world building" you mentioned tho, im not exacty sure what you mean, if you mean some form of environment setting or player presence before a mission or if you mean something totally different?  the ships to me tho are pointless because they dont offer me 1 single new thing to do, the ship cant actually do anything, if you removed the whole ship thing now you lose no gameplay features or functionality and if thats the case why have it at all, its needless work on DE's behalf.

 

Its a bit like dark sectors when they released, 1/2 a feature with no actual reason for clans/alliances to bother fighting for them, its also like melee2.0, a lot of work there as well and the bulk of us just like melee1.0 probably still just mash E,E,E,E,E, lots of work done for minimal gain or noticable difference.

 

maybe if you could explain what new thing(s) the ship offers you specifically i would understand better your opinion.

[Methanoid]

 I wonder how many were asking for ships that totally revamped the UI. I feel the request was more akin to asking for player housing, where it was more for customization/a personal dojo where you can swim in your mountains of Alloy Plates a la Scrooge McDuck.

Honestly, I feel rather claustrophobic in these new ships. I loved the feeling from the previous UI that I transcended space and literally watched over the solar system, like some sort of guardian. Now, I'm just some silly tin man in a tin can

I don't want to spend more time in these new ships. I play warframe to be on the ground, running and shooting stuff, scanning the pretty pinecones, bleeding out, not walking around a small, metal can for the sake of what, "immersion"?

Storywise? I see this as a mere footnote in the grander story that adds nothing substantial. Maybe if it was a helicarrier or something a la S.H.I.E.L.D. where you can interact with other folks and feels like a community.

 

^ the main parts of your post i totally agree with you on and had the exact same thoughts/opinions.

[vaugahn]

-snip-

 

"worldbuilding" is the process of creating a coherent fictional universe. Before, all we had universe-wise was our codex entries and the occasional guy talking to us in a mission. Now we have something that feels like it's actually there, and anchors us in the warframe universe. The background radio chatter, the ships flying by, all these things serve to ground us in DE's fictional world.

 

I won't argue with you that the actual interface within the ship needs some serious work, but I think the ship as a whole is a step in the right direction.

[Methanoid]

"worldbuilding" is the process of creating a coherent fictional universe..................................I won't argue with you that the actual interface within the ship needs some serious work, but I think the ship as a whole is a step in the right direction.

ill agree with you totally IF the ships get more functionality and used for more than just a 2nd menu system, until then i cant fully agree with the ships being part of an immersive "world", at present i see them as a menu and an eve'alike warp tunnel loading screen and i cant do anything fun or interesting with that.

[vaugahn]

ill agree with you totally IF the ships get more functionality and used for more than just a 2nd menu system, until then i cant fully agree with the ships being part of an immersive "world", at present i see them as a menu and an eve'alike warp tunnel loading screen and i cant do anything fun or interesting with that.

 

As I mentioned before, name one update that was perfect when it came out. DE listens to their playerbase and I would be seriously surprised if they didn't make some big changes in the next month or so. 

 

In general, I think the ships are a move in the right direction.

[Methanoid]

As I mentioned before, name one update that was perfect when it came out. DE listens to their playerbase and I would be seriously surprised if they didn't make some big changes in the next month or so. 

 

In general, I think the ships are a move in the right direction.

 

then those are changes that should be behind the scenes and "fixed" before we even see them live when talking of major changes, also its been a while since dark sectors and even now there is still no reason for an alliance to fight another alliance beyond the bling factor of having their name in lights.

 

again ill agree with you on the "move in the right direction" IF they eventually do something more otherwise ships ironically havent moved anywhere, they have just reinvented the wheel.

[vaugahn]

then those are changes that should be behind the scenes and "fixed" before we even see them live when talking of major changes, also its been a while since dark sectors and even now there is still no reason for an alliance to fight another alliance beyond the bling factor of having their name in lights.

 

again ill agree with you on the "move in the right direction" IF they eventually do something more otherwise ships ironically havent moved anywhere, they have just reinvented the wheel.

 

The topic of this thread is "ships are a step backwards in the player experience"

 

In terms of accessibility and efficiency, ships are a step backward. In terms of player experience, they're a huge step forward even in this unfinished state. Try not to forget we're technically beta testers. A studio as small as DE doesn't have the massive groups of testers a large studio has, they have to release the product the best they can get it, let us test it, and then fix the problem.

[Excalichobbs]

Ah, where is our imagination? Must everything be turned into an explorable zone for you to immerse yourself in a fictional universe? Great authors and storytellers can draw people into their elaborate fictional worlds merely through simple words, without the use of gimmicky visuals, codex entries, or even the occasional guy talking to us in a mission. It helps makes the world personal, rather than force someone else's rigid conceptions onto me.

True, vessels are important to worlds, but for most stories, it is enough to describe the vessel ONCE, rather than at the beginning of each chapter or scene. The Nebuchadnezzar was an awesome addition to the Matrix. But after it's introduced, we aren't forced to walk through it each time something happens. The Helicarrier is great, but having to watch someone walk from one end to the other every time they want to dash dramatically to the bridge is probably a bit much. After a short while, it become a chore, and becomes somewhat tedious.

I was perfectly fine accepting that a ship of some sort picks me up. I never really questioned how I suddenly drop down from a vent to enter a super secure facility. I'm curious what the Lotus is, but I don't need to have to walk up to talk to her as an NPC every time I need information.

Maybe if the Ordis was like Kitt and joins me in my adventures, I'll feel the need to know the ship, but as it stands now, it's just a fancy GPS system that's only one step away from Apple Maps.

[LukeAura]

In terms of accessibility and efficiency, ships are a step backward. In terms of player experience, they're a huge step forward even in this unfinished state. Try not to forget we're technically beta testers. A studio as small as DE doesn't have the massive groups of testers a large studio has, they have to release the product the best they can get it, let us test it, and then fix the problem.

I don't think this is a situation where that really counts. This is one of those -you know what would be cool-wait was the point of this again moments where they forgot part of the purpose in exchange of creating something interesting but not as good as what they originally had or were thinking of doing.

They had a very nice and efficient UI and have worsened it for the sake of something 'cool' without really even thinking about the ramifications, a 30 second test would have said that much about the new UI, big team or not. 

[JHarlequin]

Lol.... I believe the ships enhance the  immersiveness of the game.

 

 

If anything it's the otherway around. It adds immersion and at least now you know how you were "dropped off" at the start of a mission. It's deepening the lore and i'd say it's refreshing. Old ui was good but i can't go back to it after u14's, it's a lot more interactive. You can still access all your things without walking to them.

 

 It is sort of adding lore, but a few lines of text could have done that too.  Which one takes less time and doesn't over-complicate many of the actions every player takes in between missions?

 

It's called immersion, and it's a thing this game desperately needed.

 

 The game doesn't need more immersion.  It needs missions and quests that people want to do.  This gave us a ship where we can walk around, or press escape to do everything that was only one click away before as others have said.  It gave us a place to keep our kubrow and pet him, seeing something have some actual emotions rather then just some stocky warframe that displays less emotion then my Mr. Coffee.

 

 There are different opinions, but simply put, the action of implementing the ship and it's various menus and the UI changes that come with it do not add any immersion for me.  They just irritate me because they are bringing back a few old problems and spreading them around to other features that used to be taken care of on a well organized and accessible UI.  It wasn't perfect before, but everyone could use it.  Now, a lot of people are having issues with the new design and will as you say "Wait for DE to work on it."

 

 Waiting for update 14 was waiting for them to work on it.  Why do we have to wait for them to work on it again?

[Methanoid]

 A studio as small as DE doesn't have the massive groups of testers a large studio has, they have to release the product the best they can get it, let us test it, and then fix the problem.

they have the design council, they have the founders, they could easily be used as a quick gauge of opinion before major sweeping changes land to us mere mortals they could easily see expected player reactions even on that smaller test playerbase.

[vaugahn]

They had a very nice and efficient UI and have worsened it for the sake of something 'cool' without really even thinking about the ramifications, a 30 second test would have said that much about the new UI, big team or not. 

 

An efficient UI which got complained about constantly for being too utilitarian and immersion-breaking. If pressing esc took you right back to the old UI, would people be complaining? The ease of accessibility complaints have somehow broadened to include complaining about player ships as a whole.

 

they have the design council, they have the founders, they could easily be used as a quick gauge of opinion before major sweeping changes land to us mere mortals they could easily see expected player reactions even on that smaller test playerbase.

 

It would have taken design council months to find the bugs the general playerbase has found in a day. Not to mention there are bugs associated with having many players all try and do the same thing at once, which a smaller group would not have noticed.