vaugahn Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 One of the problems I noticed with the quick menu is that when you select something like arsenal, when you exit the menu you're at that station and not where you started. Wouldn't it make more sense for you to not be teleported around like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangyBlueBerry Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 A very excellent thread. As a Warframe player on both the PC and PS4 I can tell you that the pre-14 mission selection on the console was a real pain o the behind to navigate with a controller. The 14 UI is not yet available in the PS4 so I can't comment on whether it will be easier. One very important thing I miss with the 14 UI is being able to quickly tell what connects to what mission wise. Most importantly planet to planet. With the pre -14 I could fast track to a particular planet if I wanted to quickly get to a boss to farm. Not so much now (under statement). We'll see how this plays on the PS4... someday. When I play warframe I have its hooked to my TV and use a controller. On a big TV screen (about 35-40 inch) the fact that the information on the menus is slanted gives my a bloody lazy eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WereSpectre Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The Ship needs to be a private Dojo... as something between me and the menus its a total fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyDragon Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Immersion to DE is apparently regressive UI design to mimic deadspace. What genious thought it apt to make the mouse rotate the camera while navigating a UI component you have to use constantly? Any takers? I guess you didn't understand why dead space's system worked so well. It was because you didn't spend all that much time in the inventory or UI, and the times you did, the movement enhanced it. So far this Update is just proving that despite their best intentions, the UI team was just spitballing and hoping the beta term would cover any failures. I haven't logged in since the UI update, its just a headache and only serves to remind me of how redundant this game is. Grind 2 grind, pay not 2 grind. U14 could have done so much more, all we have been given are more hoops to jump through. The best part is the ships interior clashes so hard with the games previously established gritty mysterious style. It aimed for this ultratech sleek look. Really lost that kinda far future alien but familiar feel everything had. There aren't enough words to express how disappointed I am in this update. Edited July 22, 2014 by Nariala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The Ship needs to be a private Dojo... as something between me and the menus its a total fail It's fine where it is. There's no point in having two dojos, and it would completely defeat the whole purpose of the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WereSpectre Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 There is no purpose to the ship... except to act as a level of indirection between the UI and playing the game. It does not enhance function. It does not enhance ease of use. It does not increase speed of access. It turns Warframe into WARMENU... more time doing unproductive activity... yeah its immersive - in so much as you spend all your time interacting with it instead of actually playing the game. Its not a debate about it being pretty... it just doesn't serve any particular purpose. As to dojo vs player house... virtually every other MMO on the market begs to differ... individual homes vs community centers both serve different and separate purposes with very similar implementations. Hell the devs are already talking about implementing features along those lines down the road. The ship can and would be a cool player house... the ship is NOT a solid foundation for an efficient, easy, fast, and utilitarian UI A pretty UI is only as good as it works... and U14's UI doesn't work.. at least not anywhere near the standard set by the designers OWN previous efforts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 As I see you can't be moved on this, just know it's a matter of opinion, and yours isn't any more valid than mine. They're all just opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KriLL3 Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Again I asked that you don't discuss the ship in this thread, this thread is about the UI which has no real connection to the ship beyond serving as a backdrop, ideally we'd get the top menu back making switching UI pages a one click near instant affair, at which point you'll never need bother with the ship if you don't want to. Having an option to load back into the navigation UI instead of standing in the ship would also be a nice option, especially if you got sent to the mission you just did already highlighted for easy repeated runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyDragon Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Again I asked that you don't discuss the ship in this thread, this thread is about the UI which has no real connection to the ship beyond serving as a backdrop, ideally we'd get the top menu back making switching UI pages a one click near instant affair, at which point you'll never need bother with the ship if you don't want to. Having an option to load back into the navigation UI instead of standing in the ship would also be a nice option, especially if you got sent to the mission you just did already highlighted for easy repeated runs. Its impossible to. The ship is the UI. They made the hub required to interact so naturally the topic will shift there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KriLL3 Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Its impossible to. The ship is the UI. They made the hub required to interact so naturally the topic will shift there. No the ship is most defiantly not the UI, it's a backdrop, it's only "required" so far as you need to hit esc and use the menu to get to the main UI pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyDragon Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 No the ship is most defiantly not the UI, it's a backdrop, it's only "required" so far as you need to hit esc and use the menu to get to the main UI pages. Still, ship is responsible for 99% of the UI failures. Shoehorned features trying to make it have more "immersion" They care more about your appearance of being in 3d space than actually having functionality, which that alone makes the ship gripes meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KriLL3 Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I don't agree, the ship can be a backdrop to a perfectly functional UI. The perspective thing they're doing looking around the warframe's shoulder I'm not a fan of, though if it didn't move and fit properly between the warframe and the edge of the screen it wouldn't be so bad, the arsenal UI and the market are examples of the UI in-ship working better because they don't have the slant and warframe to look around. Edited July 22, 2014 by KriLL3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WereSpectre Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 no thats inaccurate. Its an opinion whether the ship is cool looking or not. it is a fact that the ship degrades the performance of the UI's FUNCTION. They remain two separate statements. Two separate issues. Yet they continue to be confused with one another. The appearance of the UI is not the issue. The issues revolve around FUNCTION - and the ship in no way contributes to those functions... its its own issue and is purely one of opinion. You can love the ship but still recognize that adding levels of indirection to the menus, requiring any mouse clicks to access the menus when they were previously immediately available, requiring more back and forth, more navigation of menus, less information, information spread over a larger area are all steps BACKWARDS. The constant need to tie the technical failures of the UI to the ships appearance continues to detract from the real issues. I don't really care if its a ship, a monkey, a panda, a goldfish, or the old star map... those are all matters of opinion as to which is best. What i want is an equal or better experience with the FUNCTION of the UI over the previous incarnation. The fact that it is so very easy to list the many ways in which the new UI falls short of the old means those areas should be given serious attention. I am not saying go back to the way it was, that ship (so to speak) has sailed. But it is not at all unreasonable to expect the dev team to focus there skills and attention on the needs of functionality within their artistic vision. One option in the OPTIONS menu - activate menu cursor Y/N solves the entire issue. no ESC key needed. 1. Cursor on... click on the menus, alerts, etc... 3D effects remain, ships main viewscreen remains... nothing changes in the aethetic... hit ESC.. return to normal navigation and movement in the ship. 2. Cursor off... start in movement mode, run around the ship... do situps, whatever floats your boat - hit ESC select Cursor ON - and static navigation is again active (or make it a station like any other - lots of ways to activate it) In short there is just no technical reason that the menu strip can't be returned to full functionality in a VERY short amount of time with a limited amount of coding effort. Which is why the topic isn't about the ship its about the solution to the functionality of the MENUS and UI NAVIGATION Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyDragon Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I don't agree, the ship can be a backdrop to a perfectly functional UI. Can is the operative word. however it currently isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Can is the operative word. however it currently isn't. Which doesn't mean it won't be. A good first step would be to have a default setting, so that when you logged in it would automatically take you to a game menu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KriLL3 Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Can is the operative word. however it currently isn't. Agreed, but how does throwing the ship away solve that? It doesn't. Only legitimate criticism of the ship behind the menus I can think of is the performance one, though if your PC can't render menus on top of a simple environment playing warframe proper must be really horrible, I doubt you get less FPS in the menus than in-game. Man I wish you could moderate your own topics, I don't like when mine get derailed by people having their own agenda, we're talking about the UI, hopefully in a constructive manner. The UI can work perfectly well with the ship still there, they're two very different parts of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WereSpectre Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Forcing people to use the "ship experience" to manipulate the UI without providing an alternative to bypass it is the reason the ship is so deeply tied in with the UI... its hard for people to see past the "ship experience" because it is the first and most direct blockade to fast UI navigation. Hence so many comments about the ship sucks or the ship rocks... either side of that coin ignores the issues regarding the technical faults of the UI itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KriLL3 Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Forcing people to use the "ship experience" to manipulate the UI without providing an alternative to bypass it is the reason the ship is so deeply tied in with the UI... its hard for people to see past the "ship experience" because it is the first and most direct blockade to fast UI navigation. Hence so many comments about the ship sucks or the ship rocks... either side of that coin ignores the issues regarding the technical faults of the UI itself. Hit esc, done, took you a split second to get to the UI, but yes an option to default to the UI on login/mission completion/whatnot would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant1988 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I really wish the ship interaction was entirely optional and the menu navigation completely separated from it. If immersion is the justification for the convoluted and unnecessary menu redesign then I'm sorry to say but I'm taken out of the experience far more by a menu that's far less convenient and intuitive than the one we used to have. All it does is make me waste more time in the menus, which means less time spent playing the actual game. Bad menus are not immersive. And seriously, the angled menus and the constant animations are nauseating and the fact that your actual character can obstruct your view is unforgivable. Absolutely nothing added to the interface has improved functionality. And function should never be compromised for form. That's bad design. I want the mouse navigated tab based menu system where I could reach any function in a single click back. Edited July 22, 2014 by Mutant1988 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atvir Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Hit esc, done, took you a split second to get to the UI, but yes an option to default to the UI on login/mission completion/whatnot would be nice. But that's what he's talking about. And, as u have outlined more than enough, the one click "which took you a split a second", represents merely the whole mess we got with the new UI. I dont get what u are trying to achieve. Since DE_Pablo's Post you are so ambivalent in every of your posts ... throughout the forum regarding the new UI - even in this comment which is quoted. On the one hand it is "such" a simple "split second" click on the other hand a "default UI" would be nice? Here are so many good posts and attempts to make the new UI work and get as simple in comparism to the old one as it can (...) but we get ZERO response of the the devs or Pablo himself. Here are people who have made the work of the devs for hours and hours and got no feedback until now. That's despressiv. It is as if he (Pablo) does not even cares (and dont come with the "hey he has posted in this thread and made a new one, haha") and never intended to back down or even tries to realized what has gone wrong or to take into consideration the work of his community: because immersive is king - all that matters are shiny things - which really fits into our current society, athough other games have shown the opposite. Edited July 22, 2014 by Atvir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes.To.Ashes Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 This is a beautifully well done post of all my complaints this patch! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazikeen Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Take my vote OP. Also, a small suggestion: I'd love to access menus though shortcuts, like F1 for Arsenal, F5 for foundry, etc. I suppose the development cost would not be that high, and it would be a big quality of life improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithwookie Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Just wanted to add my voice here - even after playing with it for several hours, the new UI is horribly inefficient compared to the old. HATE HATE HATE it. Please give us back the option for the old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methanoid Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 on a plus note, ive taken the time to play some games id previously downloaded but never tried, so its off to RoboCraft and NeoTokyo to see how they fair while the UI thing gets sorted back here. really do hope the UI gets "fixed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaxium Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Look to Dead Space's inventory and menus for examples of in-world UI done perfectly. ^This, esp. Dead space 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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