New Ui Feedback From Ui/ux Designer: Visually Nicer, Slower To Use, More Clicks To Do The Same Task

[Tulzscha]

Thread cleansed of derailment and personal attacks - any further posts of that nature will not be tolerated.

 

Please stay on topic and keep the discussion along a constructive path so as to improve the new UI experience for everyone.

[CedarDpg]

I also don't like when buying scanners, there's no easy way to see from the purchase screen how many scanners I already have. And I can no longer tell what blueprints I already have in inventory from the market, etc.

 

Also, it's great we no longer get auto-kicked when the host leaves the squad, but as far as I can tell, leaving the squad requires hitting escape, then navigation, then clicking your own name and then clicking leave squad. It'd be nice if there's an easier way to do so.

 

Additionally, it'd be nice to be able to sprint in the Liset. Moving around feels like an exercise in treading molasses. :)

 

And trying to catch a last minute alert, one, the prologue interfered with being able to access it, fine. Two, I finally get into navigation, and it goes to "Finding Squad" and I have a "Please Wait..." screen that popped up and the game is stuck. Awesome.

Edited July 18, 2014 by CedarDpg

[KriLL3]

Agree with OP. I think the UI is for consoles, big screen 10ft away. On a PC monitor it is a bit in your face. I do like it but side scroll when playing @3600x1920 nope. Maybe their is a way of adjusting it? I haven't found it yet though 25% reduction would be about right.

 

I never actually said that the new UI is console-centric, if you read between the lines you might (correctly) infer as much though.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for DE releasing WF on consoles, I'm not a console gamer, I don't own a console and I don't plan on doing so, but the more people can play WF the more money DE makes and the more staff they can hire to make WF content etc with one caveat, the UI has been sliding towards console first for a while now, I can't honestly say what the U14 UI is like for a console player / steam big picture, but it feels like all these analog turning elements are suited to a dual stick controller, and the overly large text in areas are as well, though in other areas there is pretty small text I think someone on the other side of a livingroom from a TV would struggle with.

 

The menus have a definite "cycle through with a d-pad" feel to them, using wasd/arrows + enter feels as fast or faster than using the mouse cursor, many of the UIs are clearly not suited to a mouse cursor, the planet and mission ones especially.

 

The solution is pretty obvious but the UI team has for some reason been reluctant to do it, fork the UI into 2 main paths with customization to further give people the choices they want. "Controller" for PS4/XboxOne/SteamBigPicture, and "Mouse & Keyboard" for PCs not using a controller. Why do two UIs? Because the pixel density of the displays and input methods are so different, making one UI for both means either one is heavily handicapped or both are less than optimal.

 

People brought up Win8 as an example earlier and I'll do it again, MS though it was a brilliant idea to use the same UI/UX across all their devices, phones, arm tablets, x86 tablets, laptops and desktops, the UI originated on their phones, and thus was fine there, no one will say WP7/8 is a bad UI, reason people don't use it en-mass is the low adoption rate and dicy app ecosystem, the UI is also fine on arm tablets, since well that's a large phone, but when we get to the x86 tablets we're getting into problems, since it's a windows PC only handheld, it has a desktop, with UI elements too small to use with your fingers, and the metro UI on top has no real connection to the desktop, it's two UIs neither of which are well suited to the device in question.

 

And then we get to the laptops and desktops, the desktop is the UI you'd use on those, but MS in their infinite wisdom shows you metro first, and by default shoves metro in your face pretty consistently, if you turn metro off (which you can in 8.1 or using a third party app in 8) Win8 is actually a better OS than 7, the desktop has a long list of nice improvements, but 8 is hated and considered crap because of that huge blunder of trying to force metro onto people.

 

To get back from that huge tangent (sorry) I think both player bases would benefit as a whole from having distinctly different UIs to use, they can share visual style and a lot of visual elements obviously, but the overall layout and input method should be different, because they are different, both having advantages and disadvantages, m&kb allows accurate pointers, controller allows analog motion in 4 axis at once and easy to identify/standardized buttons.

 

One size fits all is a nice idea, until you make stores sell one size fits all spandex coveralls only.

 

The UI team both feel like controller users to me though, one of the dev stream they were asked if we'd ever get ping statistics on the score screen, Pablo looked confused for a second then dismissed it as a silly suggestion, which baffled me, in a MP game especially a P2P based one knowing the players ping and who is host etc is very important to make informed decisions about who should host and which players might not be ideal to party with etc, information is a good thing. at least having the option would be nice. The new UI has a lot of bugs/issues with the scrolling wheel, which somehow weren't caught in testing prior, feels like the UI team needs a third guy exclusively using m+kb to look over their shoulders and weigh in.

 

In the same vein though I wouldn't force kb+m specific changes onto the controller version of the UI, if something that would benefit from change for the kb+m crowd works well for the controller users? Let them keep it obviously, no need to make a compromise that displeases both sides.

Edited July 18, 2014 by KriLL3

[t045ter]

I never actually said that the new UI is console-centric, if you read between the lines you might (correctly) infer as much though.

Didnt say you did :D  and you are correct it feels like it has been designed for a stick controller. This would explain the levels of menu & the fact that you can only see 6 mods at a time, the mods are 6" tall on my screen. I like the new system but it all feels to big and needs a few shortcuts.

[Dezman]

I agree, the UI looks much sleeker and appealing to the eyes. But it's lost a lot of functionality, now I can live with some of the issues pointed out by the OP but not things like:

 

* In Foundry, you can no longer see if you already have created an item. There used to be a number in the upper-left corner indicating how many you had - with this functionality lost it creates an additional step of having to re-check your inventory to see if you have the item already/in enough quantity. Given the large quantity of blueprints, knowing what you already had was very useful and saved a lot of time.

 

* In Foundry, you can no longer see how many resources you have of something. You used to be able to do this, iirc it was formatted [Orokin Cell 2/10] - meaning you needed 2 for the creation of the item while you had 10 in stock available. This allowed me to make judgement calls on whether it was worth it to craft an item. Now I have to take additional steps to re-check my stock.

 

* In Solar map, you can no longer see resource-information when hovering the planet. You used to be able to see what resources dropped on the planet, but now I have to take additional steps in order to check every planet (despite having played Warframe for +300 hours I still can't remember the drop tables in my head).

Edited July 18, 2014 by Dezman

[KriLL3]

Good catches Dazman, ashamed I missed those, OP updated.

[KriLL3]

Found another pretty glaring issue: the scrollbar on the foundry/mods isn't visible if your mouse cursor is left of middle, meaning you can't tell if you can scroll and in what direction unless you move the mouse to the right, which you shouldn't have to do to use the mouse wheel to scroll.

Edited July 18, 2014 by KriLL3

[Atvir]

Great review! Although there are a lot more errors ... e.g. i don't see the explicit number of keys i have. as someone stated here or elsewhere: there are far to many flaws.

 

Somebody wanted to make something "cool" and "new" but it to went down like a lead ballon (i hope i found the right saying). I thought that they wanted to make a simplier UI because the tons of negativ critism concerning the old UI - but did even one of them tested the new one?

 

But now is the question what to do? I really dont think and can't imaging how they can fix the current UI-System to be near as user-friendly as the old one...

Edited July 18, 2014 by Atvir

[KriLL3]

But now is the question what to do? I really dont think and can't imaging how they can fix the current UI-System to be near as user-friendly as the old one...

 

It shouldn't be that difficult really, main things that need to be changed imo:

 

Restore the top menu row, current main menu is overly big and clunky and removed to it's own page for no good reason.

 

Remove the motion of the foundry/mods:like menus, make them small enough to fit on the screen. (Or optionally have an option to retain some of their motion, but they still shouldn't overflow the screen or go behind your character).

 

Adjust the planet and mission selection to be more mouse friendly, permanent labels for the planets and hover information and re-arranging the missions into a plum and square layout that lets you read all their names without having to spin them around would be good first steps.

[BlackBird]

Well, this update is 120% tailored towards the consoles. It is way, way, WAY worse than before in terms of accessibility, comfort and ergonomics if you play on the PC. Such a shame. I recently (one week ago) got back into Warframe after about a year ob absence. Now it seems I'm not their target audience anymore because I play this on my PC. Ironically the platform that made them what they are now.

 

The UI is objectively worse and I can't see hardcore players just accepting this mess. So I guess they will have to take meassures or loose a part of their original playerbase. I for one will take a couple of days/weeks off from Warframe and give them the chance to fix this or at least give the people a choice to return to a simpler and more efficient UI. If I don't like what I see then I will move on. Not a problem considering I only came back from a long break anyway.

Edited July 18, 2014 by BlackBird

[Atvir]

i can only agree blackbird - the UI sucks every bit of fun i had in the game.i hate going back from missions to land in my own ship. it's such a mess, it does not make any fun to play and a lot of other players are thinking the same. i for one am torn between two games and now i know which i would choose. i'll wait a few days, too. after that i will have to make a decision which game to unistall. unlike some others i dont like to play many games simultaneously.

[JerZeyCJ]

The amount of people who have just told me that I'll "get used to it" is absurd. The UI is bad, I should not have to "get used to it" and even if I did, I would still be dealing with a far less efficient and more convoluted UI. People are defending an outright bad design.

[vaugahn]

The UI can be fixed with a couple simple tweaks. If you notice, many of the screens are still using the old interface, indicating that it is currently unfinished. I'm hoping to see the old top bar come back, and well as better labels for planets in the new star chart.

 

Also, for all of you "oh PC isn't the target audience anymore guess DE has moved on - we're being victimized" people, you guys sound like PS4 players. Get over yourselves.

[DawnFalcon]

Op - You've covered a lot, certainly not all, the bases. I do a lot of HCI work myself.

 

(I admit I'd be happy with the old UI back, and just have the ship displayed up top, and talk to me...)

 

I would bring up a few other issues, though - you said that the menu should perhaps be smaller to avoid the warframe.

I disagree on the basis that it's a further layer of abstraction.

 

You are not the warframe there, you are someone looking *over it's shoulder*. In the world, sure, that give you the impression that you're commanding the warframe, in the menu it does not. I believe that it should switch to a direct, ("first-person") straight-on view. This also makes it a LOT more readable, eliminates the issue of sway in movement and gives you square targets (I've already mis-clicked a few times, it's annoying)

 

*

 

There's also the issue in the foundry that it's far harder to see what you need to build an item. I'd return to a one-column view and remove the need to mouse over i.e. weapons to see what it needs. If some of the space currently taken up with cosmetics was you could easily go to 5 or even 6 rows.

 

Same thing for the mods screen, a straight-on display with less chrome would allow displaying as many mods as before - this one shows painfully few, and that's at high resolution. I'd put back the options to the left as well rather than making me back out and come back in.

 

*

 

The planets in a circle like that also feels utterly wierd. The previous view does not, sure, really need to be up behind everything like the old one, but the solar system's instantly recognisable and felt far more navigable... (I also can't get a sense of planet levels/difficulty from the UI, the icons for missions/alerts are small (and I can't immediately see with one click what an alert is, etc.)

[Tveoh]

Tired.  don't have time to read all responses.  For the issue of what mission to go to next.   Sure for Vets who have missions all unlocked its confusing.  But I'm sure for new players that don't have them unlocked,  its simple.  The Dev stream showed that missions you don't have unlocked as being fuzy and stuff.   

 

for the labels on the planets.  If using a controller yes would be nice.  But when in the navagition plane can hover your mouse on the planets to see the name.

[Cryp2Nite]

So true, +1

[KriLL3]

I agree partially vaug, there are missing UIs but I strongly doubt the they or the currently implemented ones were meant to function much differently than they do currently, the new style has some fundamental flaws, but yes it can be fixed easy enough, people calling for a return to the U13 UI aren't being realistic or fair, the U14 UI does look better, and it has some neat ideas, but it also has a lot of clunky design.

 

And please try to stay constructive people, I highly doubt the UI is clunky with mouse and keyboard due to a top level decision by DE to henceforth shun the PC users, it's mostly likely a lack of time to polish and or lack of understanding why several elements in the new UI are very unfriendly to PC users.

 

 

For the issue of what mission to go to next.   Sure for Vets who have missions all unlocked its confusing.  But I'm sure for new players that don't have them unlocked,  its simple.  The Dev stream showed that missions you don't have unlocked as being fuzy and stuff.   

 

I know what locked missions look like, I said it's hard to understand from the layout which missions do to do unlock which missions, the flow isn't as clear, before there was a straight line connecting the missions.

 

for the labels on the planets.  If using a controller yes would be nice.  But when in the navagition plane can hover your mouse on the planets to see the name.

 

That is mystery meat navigation at it's finest, you can't see which planet is which at a glance, you need to hover them to figure it out, it's bad design.

 

Imagine every food item in your fridge, pantry and freezer being kept in exactly identical looking containers with no markings or distinguishing features of any kind, only way to tell what is what is to open the lid, and quite possibly taste it as well, that might be novel for a couple minutes perhaps, but would you want to live like that long term? Would you start organizing the packages to remember which is which? Would you write on the containers with felt tip pens or similar?

 

 

I would bring up a few other issues, though - you said that the menu should perhaps be smaller to avoid the warframe.

I disagree on the basis that it's a further layer of abstraction.

 

You are not the warframe there, you are someone looking *over it's shoulder*. In the world, sure, that give you the impression that you're commanding the warframe, in the menu it does not. I believe that it should switch to a direct, ("first-person") straight-on view. This also makes it a LOT more readable, eliminates the issue of sway in movement and gives you square targets (I've already mis-clicked a few times, it's annoying)

 

Agreed, a first person perspective would make sense, my main point was that having the warframe in the way of the UI isn't a good idea, the specific solution employed to do so isn't as important as that point.

 

 

There's also the issue in the foundry that it's far harder to see what you need to build an item. I'd return to a one-column view and remove the need to mouse over i.e. weapons to see what it needs. If some of the space currently taken up with cosmetics was you could easily go to 5 or even 6 rows.

 

Same thing for the mods screen, a straight-on display with less chrome would allow displaying as many mods as before - this one shows painfully few, and that's at high resolution. I'd put back the options to the left as well rather than making me back out and come back in.

 

Density is an issue agreed, there is a lot of chrome fluff and the scale of the foundry and mods especially seems overly large, could be reduced a fair bit. (24'' 1200p monitor at arm's length for reference)

 

The planets in a circle like that also feels utterly wierd. The previous view does not, sure, really need to be up behind everything like the old one, but the solar system's instantly recognisable and felt far more navigable... (I also can't get a sense of planet levels/difficulty from the UI, the icons for missions/alerts are small (and I can't immediately see with one click what an alert is, etc.)

 

The planets in a circle like that all with that bubble around them and most of them looking quite similar really detracts from their uniqueness somehow, and being in a even circle and being the same size does as well, diagrams of the solar system shows the planets in order and in relative scales, if you just lined up all the planets and moons of the solar system in a randomized ring all the same size I bet even seasoned astronomers would have difficulty picking them apart.

Edited July 18, 2014 by KriLL3

[Ailith]

I agree with everything said in your post, the new UI looks great, but it has definitely compromised functionality (too clicky, not responsive at times, too wobbly). And, one has to assume that it was largely due to PS4 support. Honestly, how many times have we seen bad pc ports with floaty menus just like this? Supporting multiple platforms is absolutely fine, but each platform should perform as is expected of that platform.

 

Again, it looks great and I love that now even the menus are 'part of the world', but it needs further tweaking to fully represent the devs' vision.

[DawnFalcon]

KriLL3 - Uh...if there fundamental flaws, than it *can't* easily be fixed. That's what the word means!

 

I am being constructive, because otherwise there's going to be a rapid bleed of players. This isn't a "polish" issue, it's some choices which I simply don't think are working, and they need to back out and make changes before they try changing things again.

 

I remind you, as those who say "accept it" have done several times, that this is beta - and that means DE should be willing to back away from some changes (backing away from bad changes and throwing away work *happens*, even and sometimes especially after your work comes into contact with the fanbase).

 

Of course, as they accept real money that's not possible with everything, but it certainly is with the UI!

[Nitzz]

No star map is a deal breaker . No indication or guildance on how to progress . deal breaker. half the planets gone .deal breaker  and as far as I can tell  not even in game anymore. deal breaker.

 

 

 How is a player who is still progressing supposed to know what to do . IF nothing is linked or represented. or even mentioned . like what??

New nav system designed by someone with the entire map open who was badly drunk at the time .

 

 

 Honestly what pve game doesn't have a MAP? The old solar map was  functional and you could plan progression . Now nothing. half the planets are gone and no indication how to even get them opened.

Flashing white mission. flashin yellows who knows what that means. because nothing is said.. just hey it is flashing wonder what that means.. . randomly locked missons that were not locked before.that cant be unlocked   no matter how many times I do the mission . etc etc etc

Unplayable atm for anyone who doesn't have entire map unlocked.

 

Call me when you think  a MAP might be a good idea in a pve game.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Nitzz

[KriLL3]

I worded that wrong, the design's look and overall style is pretty sound, though it could do with some simplification, and the scale/density is pretty inconsistent but mostly pretty low, too low for most PC users.

 

Some over-arching design decisions like spinning the circle of planes, spinning the planets and wobbling the projected menus are terrible for PC players, it's very mouse unfriendly and doesn't make a lot of sense on the whole (imo) but removal of those "features" shouldn't be difficult on the PC version of the UI, give the planets labels, no real need for them to scroll around at all if you do that, just click the one you want, (planets on the far left and right overlapping is a bit of an issue, might need a more "vertical" projection (closer to a perfectly round circle) line the missions up in a rectilinear fashion instead of projected on a circle around the planet and shrink the projected UIs a bit so they fit on the screen and either remove the wobble or make it optional.

Edited July 18, 2014 by KriLL3

[Xaiyain]

A well crafted post that I whole heartedly agree with. Unfortunately it's bound to be overlooked as people flood in defending it saying "it's new, give it time". Sacrificing the functionality of the UI for the sake immersion has gone too far in my opinion. It's clear the UI was designed for console users, which would be fine, except we aren't on consoles.

 

Exact! I prefer old UI for PC. This new UI is better for consoles.

[KriLL3]

Exact! I prefer old UI for PC. This new UI is better for consoles.

 

I think an amalgam using the visuals of the new UI with the layout/functionality of the old one would be even nicer than either for PC.

[vaugahn]

I agree partially vaug, there are missing UIs but I strongly doubt the they or the currently implemented ones were meant to function much differently than they do currently, the new style has some fundamental flaws, but yes it can be fixed easy enough, people calling for a return to the U13 UI aren't being realistic or fair, the U14 UI does look better, and it has some neat ideas, but it also has a lot of clunky design.

 

From the amount of feedback on the forum I'd be very surprised if we didn't see some serious changes in 14.1 and .2

 

To me it seems like ideas matter more than execution this early into an update, because the execution can be polished with user feedback. All the people shouting their heads off about wanting the old UI back and how horrible the new one is aren't contributing to this process.

[KriLL3]

From the amount of feedback on the forum I'd be very surprised if we didn't see some serious changes in 14.1 and .2

 

I sure hope so, but the question remains, if we said nothing, would the UI change for the better over time or would the new UI pages have the same flaws?

 

To me it seems like ideas matter more than execution this early into an update,

 

Agreed, and a wobbling partially visible UI is a pretty bad idea. (imho)

 

All the people shouting their heads off about wanting the old UI back and how horrible the new one is aren't contributing to this process.

 

They're a pretty constant presence on the internet, they assume that because they don't like something it's forever dead and buried to the world as a whole, they're also the same people that will be very happy with the same thing they declared beyond redemption after the handful of tweaks the rest suggest.