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"fixed A Movement Exploit Where You Can Wall Run Up/slide/wall Run Up Indefinitely."


TanTheMan
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Solution: Add a mechanic where you can grip the wall so that your stamina can recover, instead of instantly sliding down. This adds lots of parkour variety while not ignoring the stamina system. I think this is better than removing it entirely. If you wanted to go even further, you can limit this to ledges and strategically place them throughout a level. It doesn't have to simply not exist.

 

I could live with that... It's at least a compensation.

 

To plain remove it is not a good option anymore because too many people have adapted to it and incorporate it into their gameplay. If they would have patched it out back in November when it came to existence... nobody would have complained... but that's 9 months ago now. Many people use it and think of it as a natural feature and even in Livestreams the Devs used it themselves sometimes. It seemed like they acknowledged it as a basic movement/skill. But all of a sudden it's an "exploit"?

 

And when stuff like coptering that started out as an unintended glitch gets buffed with Melee 2.0 so you're able to fly through entire rooms with a single button smash then I don't see why something like that endless wallrun thing can't get implemented as "regular" feature as well, even if it would be toned down a bit with a grip system and stamina recovering.

 

The grip system would even allow it to be used in combination with stealth because you could grab on the wall, stay there and leap off the wall as soon as the enemy passes by.

Edited by MeduSalem
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There's no gamplay reason for this to be removed AFAIK.  I would like to hear what DE's story is regarding this.  I hope they understand why we're upset and keep this as a feature the way coptering was allowed to stay. 

 

 

you guys kill me... stamina is in place for a reason. bypassing core game limitations is utter silliness. you guys may need to go play other games where you can get away with this kind of behavior

Stamina limits how many consecutive melee/dash maneuvers we can do in a row and not much else.  It's more of a nuisance than anything; even when rushing through a stage I have never had a problem with walking for a few seconds to regain stamina. 

Edited by RealPandemonium
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skills developed off of exploits cant really be called skills

See:

That's ridiculous, exploits many times become part of the game, look at Street Fighter 2, originally combos and canceling animations was an unintended "exploit".  But this exploit and MANY others in fighting or action games have been embraced by both the community and the game developers.  Not all exploits are the same, game breaking exploits should obviously be removed, but an "exploit" such as the wall run adds a lot to the game and has become a primary part of many player's parkour skills, they REALLY should have asked the community first before removing it.

Also, any game's speed runs are skillful use of exploits as well.

Smash Brother's Brawl -- wavedash, L-cancel, frame-cancels.

Various other things in games were originally exploits, but are considered "advanced techniques" in competitive play.

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I bought Zephyr so I will still be fine, but this will be a waste of energy to Tail Wind up all the time, plus in the Conclave the sniper is now useless because you will need Zephyr/Nova to get up on those high walls and many people do not have them. So Conclave is pretty much ruined for me. I also totally agree with IIIDevoidIII on his solution, it would give conclave people a challenge while climbing those walls because they would have to wait for their stamina to recharge, while people could be shooting at them, which would add fun gameplay. Though they would need to add more Energy Spawns so the players can use their skills to help them climb. Also, I think Kartumterek should shut his mouth because this is a loss.

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Well with that attitude one could easily argue "cut out coptering as well, because it's also been an exploit that has been officially adopted as movement-trick."

 

I'm sorry, but on this one I'm with TanTheMan... Some stuff might not be intentional, but it's nowhere a gameplaybreaking issue. It's something that happened and went by unfixed for more than 8 or 9 months now... People have adapted to it and think of it as a basic feature, intentional or not. And saying "but the mods..." ... yeah could say the same about Rush/Marathon and whatever when coptering endlessly through the levels. ^^

Death to copptering!
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Or it fixed it?

 

No, it ruined.

 

Because all maps were designed to connect wallruns. The Level Designers spent a huge time making the maps for us to use wallruns, and now we're back to sprinting and coptering.

 

The glitch mentioned on the patch notes have nothing to do with parkour. The glitch/exploit mentioned, is to repeatedly click climb/crouch while holding space on a wall to indefinitely run up. But this fix must have screwed up the Wall Run mechanics.

Edited by RexSol
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infinite vertical wallruns should never have happened that easily, what "should" have occured was wallrunning up requiring jumping/back flipping to another wall behind you to be able to get higher and even then, only working 2-3x at most.

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Some of the shortcuts in most of the tilesets won't work anymore as well because they are a tiny bit too high for the normal wallrun to do it. Mainly the Grineer Asteroid/Shipyard and Gas City...

 

if you have the RUSH mod fitted to run faster you wallclimb higher than usual, same applies to naturally fast warframes.

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It was making Void treasure hunt a joke. Why even parkour all the way when you can just go to the ending point and wall climb up?

 

It was going to get fixed anyway. Coptering was considered an intended feature instead. It's just combining dash and momentum together. If it was a bug, it would have worked on all weapon but instead we have list of item that have huge damage but cannot copter in anyway.

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It was making Void treasure hunt a joke. Why even parkour all the way when you can just go to the ending point and wall climb up?

 

It was going to get fixed anyway. Coptering was considered an intended feature instead. It's just combining dash and momentum together. If it was a bug, it would have worked on all weapon but instead we have list of item that have huge damage but cannot copter in anyway.

 

The problem is not the removal of the infinite vertical climb glitch.

The problem is the nerf of the wallrun slingshot.

Edited by RexSol
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if you have the RUSH mod fitted to run faster you wallclimb higher than usual, same applies to naturally fast warframes.

 

Who's got the mod slots for useless bullsh*t like that? I've to use every single one to make my Ember Prime usefull in higher tiers of gameplay. Otherwise the enemies would laugh even with Accelerant being used in combination with WoF. :s

 

Also somehow I still manage to wallrun at least 3 times up with a little break similar to Wallrun+Slide... but I do it by only having the Jump Button pressed down (Slide would cancel the wallrun) all the time... so it kinda lets me go at least 3 times higher than normal, but not endlessly anymore. Can live with that as well, because at least it lets me use most of the shortcuts. xD

Edited by MeduSalem
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It was making Void treasure hunt a joke. Why even parkour all the way when you can just go to the ending point and wall climb up?

 

It was going to get fixed anyway. Coptering was considered an intended feature instead. It's just combining dash and momentum together. If it was a bug, it would have worked on all weapon but instead we have list of item that have huge damage but cannot copter in anyway.

Swinging the camera back and forth to climb up tall opposing walls was annoying and far too slow. 

It was a bug based around the  momentum gained from certain sliding slashes. Heavy weapons could not copter because they used a different spin than coptering class weapons.

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I agree with the reasoning behind the removal of the infinite vertical wall run in its current state. Crouching halfway up a wall run to magically reset your speed felt weird and looked awfully buggy.

 

That being said, I do think we should be able to run up a single wall higher than we currently can. There are quite a few hidden loot rooms that are now inaccessible to frames that don't have the movement speed to make the wall run in a single go, or that can't fly like Zephyr.

 

My proposal is to remove the hard cap on how high you can go based on a frame's movement speed, increase the stamina cost for a vertical wall run, and let a combination of stamina and speed limit how high you can go. This would make a fast frame with low stamina and a slow frame with high stamina have the the same total possible height, but the fast frame gets there first.

 

I also like the idea of being able to hang at a certain height on a wall, instead of the slow slide we have now. Hanging at a certain spot on the wall would be achieved by holding crouch while running up. Hanging would still consume a small amount of stamina, and when that runs out you'd begin to slide down as we do now.

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Swinging the camera back and forth to climb up tall opposing walls was annoying and far too slow. 

It was a bug based around the  momentum gained from certain sliding slashes. Heavy weapons could not copter because they used a different spin than coptering class weapons.

 

If it was too slow then the player will try to look for alternative and remember it if you can. It's like the GAZEBO room of the Void. You can go the long way or try to Wall weapon attack (the noncopter one) to get to the ending point immediately. It's great to see them back in the game now.

 

And I remember playing a game that had the ability to infinite combo anyone to death with a certain input that had annoying requirements before it could be used. Everyone considered it a bug and hated it. However, the Dev decided to make this part of the game "Advance" trick and included classes that can both do it and cannot do it. Fix never came, only new classes with this feature comes in but with easier inputs so anyone can do it too.

 

From that experience, it made me feel like Copter is being treated the same way by DE here. When the melee heavy weapon gets some buff to be more viable, we can finally create a copter and damage tag for our weapon.

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I agree with the reasoning behind the removal of the infinite vertical wall run in its current state. Crouching halfway up a wall run to magically reset your speed felt weird and looked awfully buggy.

 

That being said, I do think we should be able to run up a single wall higher than we currently can. There are quite a few hidden loot rooms that are now inaccessible to frames that don't have the movement speed to make the wall run in a single go, or that can't fly like Zephyr.

 

My proposal is to remove the hard cap on how high you can go based on a frame's movement speed, increase the stamina cost for a vertical wall run, and let a combination of stamina and speed limit how high you can go. This would make a fast frame with low stamina and a slow frame with high stamina have the the same total possible height, but the fast frame gets there first.

 

I also like the idea of being able to hang at a certain height on a wall, instead of the slow slide we have now. Hanging at a certain spot on the wall would be achieved by holding crouch while running up. Hanging would still consume a small amount of stamina, and when that runs out you'd begin to slide down as we do now.

What rooms can you, allegedly, not access?

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What about making the best compromise between both parties: 

 

Players can still wall-climb continuously, but the stamina drain will be calculated as thus: 

 

Sta_Deplete_per_second = Init_Sta_Deplete_per_second + (Init_Sta_Deplete_per_second * x), where x is (a_predetermined_constant) * (seconds_player_has_done_this_continuous_wall_climb).

 

That means players can still continue their wall-climb, but it would not be infinite, but long enough for players who use the infinite wall-climb glitch to adapt to the change. 

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