The 1-Hour Kubrow Experience Feat. Too Much Grind (Mod Edition)?

[Varzy]

Right now, mod drops are determined by two checks.

1) Did it drop a mod?

IF yes, (2) Which mod?

 

This effectivly makes mods rarer than their drop rates suggest, as you've shown.

 

They should increase the default mod drop rate on kubrows. Probably double it, so that encountering them is almost guaranteed to yield some useful mods, even if you don't have a nekros.

[Bernkastal]

When you can go into something for x amount of time and know you're going to get something out of it you call that farming. Underlined the important word there. Grinding for drops on the other hand is when the drops are so few and far between that you just do it knowing you most likely wont get anything out of it. Its kind of like the feeling of playing the lottery. You just go out there to see if you can get it. Thats it really. 

 

You will say its a subjective thing...and it is. Some people enjoy doing stupid pointless crap for hours upon hours mindlessly. Me on the other hand I would like to at least have the peace of mind that whatever I'm going for isn't going to be at a rate of "Stalk 1x 0.069%."

 

To break that down for you thats almost 1/10 of 10% of what makes up a 1% drop rate. You have severe brain damage if you think thats acceptable.

friend, i believe you may be playing the wrong game.

[ForgemasterHD]

This is not even counting the Kubrow egg drop chance. It took me 100+ runs where only two dens would spawn on the level. Total den kill count of 209 before I received the egg.

 

So, in addition to the non-nekros run, I have had to go grinding for the egg to get the Kubrow for an additional 1530 minutes (assuming an average of 15 minutes and thorough checking and re-checking), or 25.5 hours.

 

So my total time grinding for this kubrow, without finding a Nekros, will be something like 63 hours and 54 minutes. 

 

Tell me again how grind is not an intended part of this game.

[Zeitzbach]

0.069 rate isn't that bad. I still play an MMO where the item to farm to make money with drops at 1/3000 rate (0.33) and the gear I want drop at 1/70000 rate (0.0014%). WF grinding feels loleasy to me compared to that. Can't even really call this a grind. In an MMO (WF is an FPS MMO after all), the drop rate is usually low. If it's above 1%, it's already trash unless it requires huge amount to craft with or is untradable to deal with the amount being brought in by every players each day. That's why even common drop rate will usually have rate at 12.5% or something and uncommon is at 1%. 0.06 Isn't really "rare", just uncommon by MMO standard.

 

Here's something to consider

 

1) Do you get a race-specific mod after you they come out of the egg? For some reason I already have 5 race-specific mod already (Dig, Ferocity, Howl, Stalk and Hunt) without really hunting for it. Could be, or I was just lucky in only 7 runs to get so many rare.

 

2) Maybe... some of the mods don't drop from the Kubrow but from VOID CONTAINERS instead? Could be. They want us to explore and discover, not waiting to be spoonfed.

 

This is not even counting the Kubrow egg drop chance. It took me 100+ runs where only two dens would spawn on the level.

 

You can easily find 6-8 per run if you don't speed run to the exit on E Prime... Use enemy Radar or Enemy Sense and if you see a group or 3-4 enemies, that's a Kubrow Den right there.

[ForgemasterHD]

 

 

You can easily find 6-8 per run if you don't speed run to the exit on E Prime... Use enemy Radar or Enemy Sense and if you see a group or 3-4 enemies, that's a Kubrow Den right there.

 

The maps would only yield me 2 dens per run. That's why it took 15 minutes every mission. And frankly 15 minutes is being generous and not counting the time it took to return to my ship, and reload the mission.

 

I believe there were only 2 missions where I got more than 2 dens for the entire map.

[Curaidh]

0.069 rate isn't that bad. I still play an MMO where the item to farm to make money with drops at 1/3000 rate (0.33) and the gear I want drop at 1/70000 rate (0.0014%). WF grinding feels loleasy to me compared to that. Can't even really call this a grind. In an MMO (WF is an FPS MMO after all), the drop rate is usually low. If it's above 1%, it's already trash unless it requires huge amount to craft with or is untradable to deal with the amount being brought in by every players each day. That's why even common drop rate will usually have rate at 12.5% or something and uncommon is at 1%. 0.06 Isn't really "rare", just uncommon by MMO standard.

 

Here's something to consider

 

1) Do you get a race-specific mod after you they come out of the egg? For some reason I already have 5 race-specific mod already (Dig, Ferocity, Howl, Stalk and Hunt) without really hunting for it. Could be, or I was just lucky in only 7 runs to get so many rare.

 

2) Maybe... some of the mods don't drop from the Kubrow but from VOID CONTAINERS instead? Could be. They want us to explore and discover, not waiting to be spoonfed.

 

 

You can easily find 6-8 per run if you don't speed run to the exit on E Prime... Use enemy Radar or Enemy Sense and if you see a group or 3-4 enemies, that's a Kubrow Den right there.

 

1: As I already stated, when creating this thread I was unaware of the fact that the type-specific mods get handed to you for free when hatching a Kubrow. The starting post is edited with that statement.

 

2: Don't speculate in a numbers thread. The Codex scans clearly show all the mods drop from Kubrow which makes it still horrible to find a specific rare mod if you for some reason want one additional.

 

And as I also stated in the beginning post:

"I do not want discussions along the lines of:

But game x does it worse!"

 

The drop rate is terribly low and it does not matter how many MMO games are doing it wrong, because in fact there are enough out there that do it right (e.g. Token systems).

 

As I also said, if you personally are happy with the grind, that's perfectly fine. All the power to you, but here's a thought:

Instead of making these things feel like a chore, there are multiple ways of still making players spend time while actually giving them what they want. Especially with the new quest system in place!

 

Players could spawn their own quests along the lines of "Hunt for Mod X". Lotus gives you a list of challenges you need to fulfill so she's able to extract that particular Mod you want. That can be enemy scans, kills, successful mission type runs, whatever.

 

I know I'd gladly open 10 or even 20 derelict vaults if in the end when I'm finished I get the mod I was searching for in the first place.

Same goes for killing a few hundred enemies of a certain type or whatever.

 

Again: There are so many options for acquiring resources, mods, components, whatever in this game, where is the sense in hiding practically all of it behind RNG/Grindwalls? At least to me, this reduces the fun a LOT.

 

 

I just bought the Bite mod off of a lucky player, he's now a few hundred platinum richer. I have the money, but not the time (or patience anymore) to farm for everything in Warframe. This is good you might say, because the game needs players like me spending real money on platinum to keep it afloat and keep developing. But here's the problem: I'm starting to be very inclined to take my leftover money elsewhere, because instead of pointless grinding I might actually have some FUN while playing. And that is exactly what DE doesn't need, people like me leaving...

 

I sincerely hope DE wakes up from their Stasis and takes Warframe back to being the fun game which it was instead of a collection of pointless chores that may or may not give you what you want/need.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Curaidh

[CapricaSix]

 

Instead of making these things feel like a chore, there are multiple ways of still making players spend time while actually giving them what they want. Especially with the new quest system in place!

 

Players could spawn their own quests along the lines of "Hunt for Mod X". Lotus gives you a list of challenges you need to fulfill so she's able to extract that particular Mod you want. That can be enemy scans, kills, successful mission type runs, whatever.

 

That's a great idea, they could replace lots of frustrating and unbalanced RNG-reliant aspects of the game with that and make it much more fun, in an easter egg hunt kind of way :D

[Curaidh]

That's a great idea, they could replace lots of frustrating and unbalanced RNG-reliant aspects of the game with that and make it much more fun, in an easter egg hunt kind of way :D

 

Thanks. This can be taken further: Do 5 Tower 4 XY runs and pick the specific reward you wanted. When doing it in this way you don't get the rare rewards you'd normally get. That would make it a tradeoff.

Run x-times Tower IV Capture for a shot at what you need? Or run it 5 (or another number, just making this up as I go) times, get no rewards at all but after the 5th successful run, Pick your reward. Obviously this would only be valid for the non-infinite mission types.

 

Options are what makes things fun to me. If you enjoy the grind, go for it. If you're willing to make sacrifices to get what you want, you should be able to do so in my opinion.

 

Select an uncollected MOD from the Codex, have Lotus tell you she has insufficient Data for this. Random quest to scan one enemy type 20 times.

Once you did that, Lotus has enough data and starts tracking one of those artifacts. Now she sends you to place datamasses in 5 different ships to infiltrate them and broaden her scan range.

After finishing the requested deception missions, she finds one of those artifacts and sends you on a defense mission to extract it. After beating wave 20 you finally have the one mod you wanted, and to me personally it would feel satisfying to get mods that way, even if while doing that all other mod drops are turned off!

 

 

This is especially true for longer time players imho, because up until U14 I had every "regular" mod that is available, except primed chamber. Now I can start playing the RNG again to get the complete mod collection while getting literally hundreds of duplicates I don't want/need. There's just no fun in it anymore.

[CBAROG]

Thanks. This can be taken further: Do 5 Tower 4 XY runs and pick the specific reward you wanted. When doing it in this way you don't get the rare rewards you'd normally get. That would make it a tradeoff.

Run x-times Tower IV Capture for a shot at what you need? Or run it 5 (or another number, just making this up as I go) times, get no rewards at all but after the 5th successful run, Pick your reward. Obviously this would only be valid for the non-infinite mission types.

 

Options are what makes things fun to me. If you enjoy the grind, go for it. If you're willing to make sacrifices to get what you want, you should be able to do so in my opinion.

 

Select an uncollected MOD from the Codex, have Lotus tell you she has insufficient Data for this. Random quest to scan one enemy type 20 times.

Once you did that, Lotus has enough data and starts tracking one of those artifacts. Now she sends you to place datamasses in 5 different ships to infiltrate them and broaden her scan range.

After finishing the requested deception missions, she finds one of those artifacts and sends you on a defense mission to extract it. After beating wave 20 you finally have the one mod you wanted, and to me personally it would feel satisfying to get mods that way, even if while doing that all other mod drops are turned off!

 

 

This is especially true for longer time players imho, because up until U14 I had every "regular" mod that is available, except primed chamber. Now I can start playing the RNG again to get the complete mod collection while getting literally hundreds of duplicates I don't want/need. There's just no fun in it anymore.

Oh, God, I want this. However difficult, however long, as long as I get what I need.

[ForgemasterHD]

Thanks. This can be taken further: Do 5 Tower 4 XY runs and pick the specific reward you wanted. When doing it in this way you don't get the rare rewards you'd normally get. That would make it a tradeoff.

Run x-times Tower IV Capture for a shot at what you need? Or run it 5 (or another number, just making this up as I go) times, get no rewards at all but after the 5th successful run, Pick your reward. Obviously this would only be valid for the non-infinite mission types.

 

Options are what makes things fun to me. If you enjoy the grind, go for it. If you're willing to make sacrifices to get what you want, you should be able to do so in my opinion.

 

Select an uncollected MOD from the Codex, have Lotus tell you she has insufficient Data for this. Random quest to scan one enemy type 20 times.

Once you did that, Lotus has enough data and starts tracking one of those artifacts. Now she sends you to place datamasses in 5 different ships to infiltrate them and broaden her scan range.

After finishing the requested deception missions, she finds one of those artifacts and sends you on a defense mission to extract it. After beating wave 20 you finally have the one mod you wanted, and to me personally it would feel satisfying to get mods that way, even if while doing that all other mod drops are turned off!

 

 

This is especially true for longer time players imho, because up until U14 I had every "regular" mod that is available, except primed chamber. Now I can start playing the RNG again to get the complete mod collection while getting literally hundreds of duplicates I don't want/need. There's just no fun in it anymore.

 

+1 on the forum, but +2 for fun.

[Kinjeto]

38 hours its fine, you re not suposed to have everything in 1 shoot, its long time content, and well not like kubrows was the core of WF

With one enemy and one location. It makes perfect sense that grind wall and RNG = content. No. Really.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Kinjeto

[Zaayd]

With one enemy and one location. It makes perfect sense that grind wall and RNG = content. No. Really.

^

 

This. I was /more/ than okay with the Mirage quest requiring you to do some vault runs because I had yet to do any and ended up finding them quite interesting - and I get to try and find some of my wanted corrupted mods too. It added one more reason to do those vault runs that didn't particularly detract from them. But one tileset, low level enemies, one enemy and a container type 2-4 dens a pop, over and over is just...I'm not sure where other people got the willpower to be honest. I'm not willing to do this for a Kubrow egg itself let alone for mods.

[Nichivo]

This really doesn't bother me in the least. I'm patient if I have to kill Feral Kubrow for a month I will, it's not a big deal.

 

Now a few things on the other hand that I do find annoying, silly, aggravating and upsetting. Having only started playing recently. I will never be able to complete my collection. Excal Prime I wasn't around to be a founder or I would have, great an entire frame, I CANT GET! Prime versions of the two extractors, again I was not around so, I CANT GET THEM! A few weapons again I was not around so, I CAN NEVER GET THEM.

 

Primed Chamber, Aviator, EMP aura etc. Just three of the mods I have no chance to get through game play or farming /grinding, Granted I really only want the primed chamber, but it would be nice to have a complete collection. I have no issues supporting games I do it all the time, but 500 dollars of plat for one mod is silly and that's if you can find someone willing to sell it. Did I mention all the arcane helms?

 

Quite simply exclusive should be cosmetic only or trophies for the Dojo, Anything more than that is annoying to new players to say the least.

 

Another complaint NERFS and not what you may be thinking either. The constant nerfing of AI opponents I find a bit silly. Osprey, Arc traps, Feral Kubrow, etc. etc the list is getting longer all the time. Do people really find all this absurdly challenging? IF they dumb down much more it's going to be boring as hell. I want bigger challenges, I want to be able to attain all things in the game even if it means grinding countless hours, not be forever kept from getting some things because I didn't start playing at the very start. 

 

I just do not understand the complaints about grinds and farming, at least it is attainable with some effort unlike the things I want that you simply just can not get period. 100k stabilizer? 100k is chump change for a pack that will last you a week. 

 

I would gladly farm everyone in this thread a complete set of kubrow mods, if each set I gave away, would get me one of the things I CAN'T GET.

[CY13ERPUNK]

the only thing i want to say is that all kubrow dens should spawn infinitely in waves after the last batch dies

 

this way there is a positive incentive for ppl not farming to destroy dens quickly so they dont get overrun

 

but as far as farming goes, the dens need to be able to spawn more kubrows, thats for sure

 

and/or more/different types of dens, ie smaller dens with only a dozen or so kubrows inside, or med-larger dens with several exits and several dozen kubrow inside, the large dens could have more health as well, and/or spawn bigger/tougher feral kubrow, with more abilities, etc (of course more kubrow types as enemies also gives DE more places to spread drops out)

[Max_silverfox1982]

make it random but simple. with the transmutation instead of being random, mods have certain costs to smelth for x mod... like this X rare requires you to smelth 10 rare v polarity or something along those lines... make mods "craftable" by expending large amounts of other mods. but yeah, sometimes there that just one mod that seemengly never ever drops no mater how many hundres of lifes you kill for it

[FantaStick123]

Honestly it's rather upsetting that the Kubrow mods have such a low drop rate.

I feel like Warframe is becoming more and more of a grind every update and I really hope that this doesn't happen due to the fact that this game is pretty damn fun.

 

I propose that there should be some sort of mode to fight nothing but Feral Kubrows, sort of like a Kubrow Survival or Defense this way it not only is fun for players to have to fight against non stop Kubrows but the mode can also assist players who are trying to farm these rare mods like crazy.

[Yezzik]

I don't mind grind if I know there's mechanics in place to ensure I'll get what I'm after if I just stick at it.

But pure RNG? Screw that.

[xNoobLegacyx]

I've been farming bite since they announced it was finally obtainable through killing Kubrow. Still no luck. 

[Ensosin]

I've put hours purely into kubrow grinding for mods with my Nekros, desecrating nearly every single one.

 

I still have yet to get a single Bite.  Probably one of the most important mods your kubrow could have.  But don't worry, I have Bleedout-Link and Scavenge mods for days.  So at least there's that.

 

It's absolutely absurd that this many mods varying in drop rate as drastically as they do come from only one enemy and the amount of said enemy per run is completely ambiguous.

 

I've never minded grinding for my gear.  In fact, I love grinding for my gear.  It makes it that much more rewarding to acquire.

However, hours and hours of doing the same 7 minute mission over and over and over again only to find endless copies of mods that I wouldn't even use in the first place is a straight kick to the teeth.

I think grinding is fun, but after running Everest countless times with absolutely ZERO desired reward is just demotivating.

I don't even care to try anymore.  I would rather wait until I have money and give some lucky sap who got it his first try some ungodly amount of platinum just so I can have this essential piece in my inventory.

 

-sigh-

 

/endrant

Edited August 11, 2014 by Ensosin

[Ensosin]

Honestly it's rather upsetting that the Kubrow mods have such a low drop rate.

I feel like Warframe is becoming more and more of a grind every update and I really hope that this doesn't happen due to the fact that this game is pretty damn fun.

 

I propose that there should be some sort of mode to fight nothing but Feral Kubrows, sort of like a Kubrow Survival or Defense this way it not only is fun for players to have to fight against non stop Kubrows but the mode can also assist players who are trying to farm these rare mods like crazy.

This is a damn good idea, in my opinion.