De's (Small) Step Toward Pw-Like Business Strategy

[Shuuro]

The Dark Souls community was able to figure out the convoluted mechanics behind that game's systems. I am confident that the WF community can figure out the puppy breeding  mechanics.

 

What does Dark Souls have anything to do with it? Dark Souls is Dark Souls. Warframe is Warframe.

 

Whats so difficult about figuring out the puppy breading mechanics?

 

You breed a Kubrow. Rip off two imprints on it. Use one of them on one Kubrow, use the other on another Kubrow.

 

Hope you get what you wanted instead of something else.

 

Whats so difficult about understanding that Imprints only increase the success of getting the traits of said Kubrow imprint. It's not a 100% garentee.

 

Like people have reported before, they tried using imprints and came back with a white kubrow of a different breed.

[Nitresco]

Hi, I'm back.

If DE gives everyone 1 million plat for free then players would be very happy, but DE would not be making any money, ergo, player happiness =/= DE profits.

If you're going to act like a smart aleck, I have no desire to discuss these things with you.

[JerZeyCJ]

While we were making this feature the whole megathread happened, and I knew someone out there would think this was pw related. In fact I just had some test code to switch colors before the db code was ready and it randomized Kubrows, looked cool so we decided to run with it.

 

Just to jump back to this, you knew that the player base would associate this with PW and thus you had to know that we would not like it and you still put it in the game? Seriously?

 

Also, imprints/breeding are unreliable and do not necessarily produce the Kubrow that you want, making them a waste. The entire breeding/imprints system treats Kubrows as disposable resources, the opposite of what you guys wanted.

Edited July 21, 2014 by JerZeyCJ

[SquirmyBurrito]

The difference between those games and this one is that this is a precedent that has not been crossed to date in this game. And it is something not wanted by a large part of the community. That is the difference.

 

Mod card packs. 

>Large part of the community.

So far the OP (well, the one before the merge) only has 270 something upvotes. That isn't even 2% of the currently playing (via steam) playerbase.

 

[DE]pablo said that the random scramble was an accident, and they decided that it made Kubrows different and decided to keep it.  It was not done on purpose, acording to what I read.  The fact that they don't seem to care that #1 - this is contrary to all previous cosmetic decisions and #2 - that this is really upsetting a sizable number of people  is worrisome.

 

People say they aren't concerned with the 'slippery slope' argument, but when you depart this radically from your normal practice in a key feature of a major update, what does this say about the thought process of the creator?  It becomes a viable option for the future.  Will gear related lockboxes be out tomorrow?  no, they won't.  But it sets up the precedent for them to appear one day. 

 

You are taking away people's creative influences in favor of either #1-random, uncontrollable chance, or #2-mindless time sink breeding features that may give you what you want, but takes weeks or months to achieve, if you can find an honest person trading the right items in the first place.

 

That's cool and is exactly why I used the word 'seemingly'.

 

1. Being different than previous decisions does not make it wrong or bad.

 

2. Until they conduct a survey on the entire game's population, this will continue to look like a small fraction of the community getting upset over something that many of them don't mind in other games. I rounded up the amount of upvotes this thread has received to 400 and that was STILL below 2% of the people playing warframe via steam at the time of day that I did the math. 

 

3. You just brought up the creator's thought process 'it [was] different [so they] decided to keep it'.

 

4. It does not (in any way) set a precedent for DE to lock gear behind this sort of thing. Especially when DE has been doing just the opposite for so long. Cosmetics in lockboxes is not a new thing, nor is it a problem. Also, need I remind you that mod packs are a thing and that people aren't *@##$ing about those. Why? Because (just like Kubrow colors) they can be attained via other methods. The only difference here is that Kubrow are new and the other ways take a long time.

 

5. No, I'm not. My idea would give players a means to funnel those creative ideas into their kubrow's design without turning them into a color by numbers pet addition.

[Zaresin]

What?  I am only offering my opinions.  If anything posts like yours (rudeness, calling people out and casting aspersions on their character), is far more likely to get the thread locked.

 

Majority of your conversations on here need to be in another thread, this thread is about the reactions and discussions about the Plat only RNG color options.  Please keep it on topic.  If it does not have anything to do with that, please make your own thread in regards to that topic or take it to PMs.

[VDeorsum]

After waking up, and seeing so many comments about "why should I care about my Kubrows colors". Then I start seeing people try and argue that you wouldn't do that with your children, real life pets, etc.

 

Are you people serious?

 

I mean. Seriously serious? You are bringing. Real life. Into a game. About:

 

-SPACE NINJA'S. With GOD. TIER. ABILITIES.

-Able to CONJURE FLAMES

-QUAKES

-MAGNETIC PULSES

-ELECTRIC CURRENTS

-BLIZZARDS

-TORNADOES

-the ability to BEND LIGHT TO BECOME INVISIBLE

-CREATING SOUND QUAKES

-PUDDLES WITH HAMMER SPACE

-SUMMONING THE DEAD

-the ability to use ANTI-MATTER

-the ability to CONTROL PEOPLES MINDS

-create LETHAL TOXINS

-CREATE VORTEXES

-the ability to make other LIVING ORGANISMS PULSE WITH ALIENATED ENERGY AND HEALING PROPERTIES.

-the ability to create MULTIPLE SOLID JAVELINS OUT OF THIN AIR AND SEND THEM ALL FLYING.

-the ability to crease DEADLY DISCO BALLS OF DOOM, SO YOU CAN PARTY WHILE THINGS DIE AROUND YOU.

 

I think that covers about everyone?

 

Do you honestly think that these space Ninja's, with the technology of the Orokin, the same era of the legendary PRIME FRAMES and WEAPONS. Are you trying to tell me that they do not have this kind of technology? I can tell you already they do. Need proof? Let's read a certain letter.

 

 

Within that letter, we can see that a Kubrow, befitting a prince was promised. Now. Corpus, have been unable to use this successfully, and therefore, have been, what we can assume, creating the randomized Kubrows like we have it now. This goes to show that the technology IS out there. The Corpus are just unable to utilize this technology unlike the Tenno would be able to.

 

 

So. Let me ask again. You're comparing real life, to a game like this?

 

"But you wouldn't do that to you chidren"

 

Guess what? If this world was like Gundam SEED (#Coordinator4Lyfe). Or any other world where I COULD do that, a lot of people WOULD do that. Do you honestly think people would NOT use that if they had easy access to it?

 

Now you might be thinking, "Well damn, this guy sounds like a cold hearted jerk". Well I'm sorry to pop your bubble, but if you honestly think that if human beings, you know? The same people that wage wars, and see that people have died on the news because of violence. If you think that if we had easy access to make our children look the way we wanted, we WOULDN'T use it? Sure. Not EVERYONE, would take that path. but guess what. Not EVERYONE would feel guilty using it either. This is the sad truth.

 

If this is truly the case, then why are you even able to color your Warframe? You should have just been totally fine with how it looks. Even if it looked really weird, and awkward, and randomized, because the materials used were not in the color you so desired? Oh I don't know, wouldn't paint kind of chip on a Warframe? Get scratched and dulled off? Because comparing real life to Warframe makes all the sense. But guess what, you are GUILTY of changing the color on your Warframe, and then you are trying to penalize people for wanting to change the color on their pets? I just don't even..

 

 

"But you wouldn't dye your cats hair"

 

So. Let me get this straight. Your telling me it's not okay to dye my pets hair, but then it's seemingly okay to throw my Kubrow into some genetic DNA scrambler, where it's genetics get scrambled in a matter of like.. this.

 

 

and you're trying to tell me that it wouldn't be "cruel" to make my beloved pet have to go through that a few HUNDRED, or even THOUSANDS of times?

 

Wouldn't it be kinder to just be able to simply pick out a genetic template, with a guaranteed 100% chance result of getting what the pet owner wanted?

 

"You can breed them"

 

No. No you CANNOT breed them. This is NOT pokemon. In pokemon, I can CONTINUOUSLY USE, my 2 perfect pikachus in an attempt to make the ULTIMATE PIKACHU. But guess what?

 

In Warframe, you only have TWO CHANCES at MAXIMUM. You can only make TWO imprints of your Kubrow, and if that fails, you have to go breed another few hundred, or thousand other Kubrows to get that Two chances again.

 

 

Please. Do not compare Real life to Warframe. It doesn't make sense, nor should it be aloud. Unless I see some of you people on the news riddled with a technocyte virus, in a power suit, killing zombie aliens, then leave all comparison of that outside.

 

Also. Another point I just realized. In pokemon, we have a MUCH higher influence on breeding. Counting steps, holding items, etc. Way too much to go into but you get the point. I think? I hope?

 

In short. I love Kubrows. They are cuddly, lovely little things. I own several pets, and whenever I heard my Little Kubrow pup do it's high pitched bark. My heart melted. I love animals, and I love Kubrows. What I DON'T love, is spending money on a slot machine to get my pet a new DNA set.

 

As I currently see it, these are the things that will probably need changing.

 

Take out the random generator period. Make us have to breed, but make breeding WAY more intimate. Ever play Sonic Adventure? Remember the Chao Garden? You can raise a Chao pet, and depending on how you raised it, it would grow to have a different skin pattern or what not. You could even buy eggs to have a predetermined pattern, giving you the option to have a Mono-tone, or two-tone colored Chao.

 

With the above option. DE would have everyone breeding Kubrows together more reliably (WITH THE REMOVAL OF THE 2 IMPRINT LIMIT. kthx), and it would also earn them a net of money by having the pre determined specialized color'd Kubrow eggs in the market.

 

 

This is the path I would take if I wanted to have my player-base more inclined to a breeding perspective of raising Kubrow.

 

 

The alternate method, could be a questline of some sort, so that we the players, could get the option of "fully restoring" the Orokin incubator, so we get the option of choosing our own Kubrows skins and colors, at a higher price of course. It would fit a little bit more with the lore, considering the letter we recieve, and it would make players work for that option. Who knows, make it a T4 reward quest or something. That way you can have players want to gear up and, dare I say, spend platinum trying to get the appropriate key, appropriate gear, and appropriate mods to survive said mission?

 

In the end. Many, many, many of us, do not like this randomization of Kubrow customization. We would like to have some sort of solid way to get what we want. If you want us to breed, then I suggest you take a good look into Sonic Adventure 2's Chao Garden, because it had an amazing system for breeding, and I spent months just breeding the pets and not even playing the game for the game. If you want to go lore, try for the quest system so we can obtain this perfectly restored Orokin relic, capable of breeding our Kubrows to our liking.

 

Heck, add them both in even. Best of both worlds.

 

 

...

 

 

Wow I spent a long time typing that out... Geeze. I need a drink.

 

 

Quick Edit: There is always a better solution compared to only RNG as the sole solution. 

YOU ARE A GENIUS  +1 man 

[Zaresin]

Mod card packs. 

>Large part of the community.

So far the OP (well, the one before the merge) only has 270 something upvotes. That isn't even 2% of the currently playing (via steam) playerbase.

 

 

 

That has already been addressed numerous times in the thread.  Please read the thread.

[SquirmyBurrito]

That has already been addressed numerous times in the thread.  Please read the thread.

 

There are 758 posts in this thread. How about hell no. Especially when there is nothing to address here. Everything I stated was a fact in the portion of my post that you quoted.

[Arkezuli]

Just to jump back to this, you knew that the player base would associate this with PW and thus you had to know that we would not like it and you still put it in the game? Seriously?

[Cutoff]

 

^ This.

 

A. Thousand. Times.

 

I mean... SERIOUSLY...?!?

You're seeing the playerbase would not approve of it, and immediatelly relate to PW's same, awful, Plat-Powered-Full-RNG system, and you STILL "decided to run with it" because it "looked cool"?!?

Just... WHAT?!?

Edited July 21, 2014 by CenSilver

[Zaresin]

There are 758 posts in this thread. How about hell no. Especially when there is nothing to address here. Everything I stated was a fact in the portion of my post that you quoted.

 

then don't expect me to reply to you being lazy when it has already been addressed by numerous players within the first 15 pages.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Zaresin

[SquirmyBurrito]

then don't expect me to reply to you being lazy when it has already been addressed by numerous players within the first 15 pages.

 

How is me refusing to read 750+ posts me being lazy? I entered this thread well after it had already started, read the OP and replied to it. I then proceeded to read almost every post that came after mine. I'm not being lazy. If my facts were already addressed it should be easy to pull that reply back up. And as I pointed out, there is nothing to say. Those were facts.

 

-Mod packs exist and are a plat for random items transaction that has existed in this game for a while now.

-The amount of upvotes is my only way (short of going through and counting) to figure out how many people are supporting this idea. That number isn't even 2% of the 26k that were playing earlier.

[Zaresin]

How is me refusing to read 750+ posts me being lazy? I entered this thread well after it had already started, read the OP and replied to it. I then proceeded to read almost every post that came after mine. I'm not being lazy. If my facts were already addressed it should be easy to pull that reply back up. And as I pointed out, there is nothing to say. Those were facts.

 

-Mod packs exist and are a plat for random items transaction that has existed in this game for a while now.

-The amount of upvotes is my only way (short of going through and counting) to figure out how many people are supporting this idea. That number isn't even 2% of the 26k that were playing earlier.

 

Read from page 4 to page 19......it is asked and responded to by numerous well known players who have said it better than I ever could.  Not wasting anymore time replying to you as in the time it took you to reply you could have already started reading.

[ForgemasterHD]

 

-Mod packs exist and are a plat for random items transaction that has existed in this game for a while now.

-The amount of upvotes is my only way (short of going through and counting) to figure out how many people are supporting this idea. That number isn't even 2% of the 26k that were playing earlier.

As stated above, both of these are addressed numerous times.

Edited July 21, 2014 by ForgemasterHD

[Airwolfen]

-The amount of upvotes is my only way (short of going through and counting) to figure out how many people are supporting this idea. That number isn't even 2% of the 26k that were playing earlier.

 

one thing about the upvotes though. not that many people are actively looking on the forum. be it in favor or against the topic. and even the small portion that goes to the forum needs to find the thread.

 

player count and topic votes are not comparable.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Read from page 4 to page 19......it is asked and responded to by numerous well known players who have said it better than I ever could.  Not wasting anymore time replying to you as in the time it took you to reply you could have already started reading.

 

I am juggling numerous different things right now.

1. What does being a well known player have to do with anything?

2. I am a fairly well known player, but I don't expect people to put more value in what I say than what a new forum member says.

3. Either this thread got messed up, or I've been part of it for a lot longer than I realized... I'm on the fourth page.

4. I read pages 4-7, and this is what was said:

A) Mod packs guarantee some rares (my reply- So? The scrambler guarantees that your kubrow comes out with a color.)

B) Mod and key packs are different (my reply- lolwut, again you are guaranteed a color for your kubrow, unfortunately you don't seem to be guaranteed a DIFFERENT color. That should be fixed.)

C) There are free ways to obtain that (my reply- There are free ways to obtain kubrow patterns, but like mods it all comes down to RNG or lucky trades).

D) Someone calling players impatient and DE greedy (no reply)

 

The fact that 300 is a small portion of 26k did not seem to be addressed.

 

One change that could completely normalize this feature would be to put it more in line with a gumball machine. Meaning, we get to keep all the gumballs. A new gumball doesn't take the place of the previous gumball.

 

one thing about the upvotes though. not that many people are actively looking on the forum. be it in favor or against the topic. and even the small portion that goes to the forum needs to find the thread.

 

player count and topic votes are not comparable.

 

That was my point. People can't claim to have the majority on their side (which is what the 'many players agree' arguments are).

[Magnagar]

-Mod packs exist and are a plat for random items transaction that has existed in this game for a while now.

-The amount of upvotes is my only way (short of going through and counting) to figure out how many people are supporting this idea. That number isn't even 2% of the 26k that were playing earlier.

 

 

Mod packs arent cosmetics. Mods are also obtainable through in-game while cosmetics are only obtained throught the market as platinum purchases only.

 

Big difference....

 

 

You don't see Mods being sold seperately through the market do you? Cosmetics are selective and it should always be that way.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Mod packs arent cosmetics. Mods are also obtainable through in-game while cosmetics are only obtained throught the market as platinum purchases only.

 

Big difference....

 

 

You don't see Mods being sold seperately through the market do you? Cosmetics are selective and it should always be that way.

 

Correct, mod packs aren't cosmetics. But they are an example of plat for random that people didn't seem to mind. Kubrow fur patterns and colors can be obtained through in-game kubrow hatching. Not really a big difference.

 

Should? Why? Because you say so?

[Arkezuli]

WE DID IT GUYS!!!

 

THEY REMOVED THE SCRAMBLING!!!

 

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

*Hugs everyone enthusiastically*

 

[[DE]Rebecca]

This has been removed as of 14.0.5:

We have disabled the Kubrow Genetic Scrambler while we consider feedback on it.

Locking to read through feedback for further thoughts now that it is removed from the game.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/269089-hotfix-1405/