TisForTat Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) While I do not agree Warframe is still a Beta, this video hightlights the problem with early access to new games/content. For Warframe, that would include Update 14 which has had many mixed feelings by the community. Regarding my reason for not considering Warframe a Beta, there are many other multiplayer games in a similar phase that are still constantly evolving yet considered a complete game. If these games did not, the playerbase would inevitably move on to a newer game. This is especially true in PvE games which Warframe falls under. PvP games have a longer shelf life solely because competing against players offers a different experience every time. I am not advocating that Warframe resorts to PvP as their end game, merely that in order for Warframe to survive it must continue to evolve, but with one condition. That condition is to evolve in complete phases. Why? For the very reasons that the video above highlighted. "Adapt or perish, now as ever, is Nature's inexorable imperative." -H.G. Wells Edited July 21, 2014 by TisForTat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senketsu_ Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Dark sector conflits are exclusive PvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)LilVanu Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Dark sector conflits are exclusive PvP Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they say they're adding both PvE and PvP dark sector conflicts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123Olympian Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Warframe is far from completion son. I have been here a while and you a while as well. This is far from release. Just because they throw out some ships does not mean they are ready. 14.0.123091287401974 is great evidence needed at that. -Note I can not hear anything thanks to the windows 8 laptop deciding on not giving sound. </3 Edited July 21, 2014 by 123Olympian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Atroxium Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBladeX Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Warframe will be in beta as long as it has to. Edited July 21, 2014 by APBladeX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionus Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Look at all of those placeholder bosses and tell me this game is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYLUX6574 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) This game will always be in beta or there for a very long time Edited July 21, 2014 by SYLUX6574 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Atroxium Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 A true friend, sits by you'r side even when times are rough. We are that friend, to whom might have a rough time. This video does represent a issue of these types of releases. But warframe is something different, and we have kinda gone past that worry point of time. Imagine this, at one point the game might feel done, when they fix core mechanics and those scenarios. Those are the factors after that, what we have now is essentially what will keep going for a long time, as long as the players are there. The supporters are there. Dont worry as long as you are that friend, it will be ok. -Cpt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandoran_Stallion Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Look at the old weapon designs, the bosses, the positively ancient corpus ships, the bugginess of U14 and how long it's taken DE with 24/7 work to patch it, and tell me it's not beta. Because I know people will say this: Paying makes it full is not an excuse. Its a free to play game. They need those transactions to keep the company running. People are basically saying "They chose to make this game free to play; therefore they cannot call it 'beta.'" It's absolutely unreasonable to penalize a company with an open beta free to play by forcing them to call it a full release, simply because they wish to get paid. So following that, Warframe is still a beta. It has no endgame, and that alone make it fail as a full release and require a 'beta' title. I support the Beta tag for the near future until I can see Warframe doing reasonably well under a full release tag. Edited July 21, 2014 by UpgradeInProgress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MoRockaPDX Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 It is pretty clear that DE is aware of these limitations and has been investigating ways to address it. Many possible scenarios could play out, but I think [DE]Steve mentioned moving toward PC/Console update parity. This would require a, likely, update/hot fix release schedule change. In other words DE would likely have to internalize or seperate the early release of updates. If they delayed they will have to rely on internal testers to discover bugs, If they split te servers in two they will need more resources. There are of course many other possibilities, this is just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furyion Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 barely technicaly..it is open beta..and still work in progress...and all the progress is great so far from closed beta..cant wait futures.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cepmosod Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) My biggest issue is that Kubrows are a HUGE feature of U14, and Steve told us to basically figure out for ourselves how incubating, hatching, growing and using Kubrows works.How can we even begin to test and bughunt when we don't even know what to look for, let alone how the dang thing even works?If it's still in Beta, they need to get their priorities straight. "Surprises" (wasted plat and bugs galore) are definitely not needed. Finding and reporting issues is. Edited July 21, 2014 by Cepmosod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MoRockaPDX Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 ^ that is a valid concern, and why introducing a test server to iron out bugs before releasing updates and provide update parity PC/Console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TisForTat Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they say they're adding both PvE and PvP dark sector conflicts? The Dark Sector Conflicts were said to have PvP priority with the option of PvE. Warframe is far from completion son. I have been here a while and you a while as well. This is far from release. Just because they throw out some ships does not mean they are ready. 14.0.123091287401974 is great evidence needed at that. -Note I can not hear anything thanks to the windows 8 laptop deciding on not giving sound. </3 That depends on your view of Warframe's progression which is different than my own. I have been here since the Lato Vandal, just after the Braton Vandal. The ships along with the rest of the update are the main point of this thread which is for future updates to be given a delay for more QA before release. Either your speakers are broken, your audio software is uninstalled, you have the wrong audio device set, or you muted them. Warframe will be in beta as long as it has to. I partially agree in this way: The game will continue change as long as it needs to. Otherwise what is the incentive for people to keep playing after a certain point? Look at all of those placeholder bosses and tell me this game is finished. That is a fair point, however bosses don't serve much purpose in this game anyways aside from farming them to acquire parts to build a Warframe or acquiring mods found only in their drop tables then never fighting them again either. This game will always be in beta or there for a very long time If I were to agree with you on your definition of Beta, then I would also agree that this game will always stay as one. A true friend, sits by you'r side even when times are rough. We are that friend, to whom might have a rough time. This video does represent a issue of these types of releases. But warframe is something different, and we have kinda gone past that worry point of time. Imagine this, at one point the game might feel done, when they fix core mechanics and those scenarios. Those are the factors after that, what we have now is essentially what will keep going for a long time, as long as the players are there. The supporters are there. Dont worry as long as you are that friend, it will be ok. -Cpt I agree with the principle that this game will keep going as long as there are players, but I also firmly believe that in order for this game to keep those players, the game must continue to progress. Warframe is in fact progressing, but I'm somewhat worried about the execution of this progression. Look at the old weapon designs, the bosses, the positively ancient corpus ships, the bugginess of U14 and how long it's taken DE with 24/7 work to patch it, and tell me it's not beta. Because I know people will say this: Paying makes it full is not an excuse. Its a free to play game. They need those transactions to keep the company running. People are basically saying "They chose to make this game free to play; therefore they cannot call it 'beta.'" It's absolutely unreasonable to penalize a company with an open beta free to play by forcing them to call it a full release, simply because they wish to get paid. So following that, Warframe is still a beta. It has no endgame, and that alone make it fail as a full release and require a 'beta' title. I support the Beta tag for the near future until I can see Warframe doing reasonably well under a full release tag. New content that has not been thoroughly tested will always be plagued with bugs, which falls under my original point of delaying further updates for QA testing. There is a flip side to that. There are players that call a product no longer Beta when it has micro-transactions, but keep the following things in mind: 1) The Founders package started in the closed Beta and remained available for quite a bit of time into open Beta. What do you call these "Founders"? 2) Digital Extremes made a deal with Valve to join Steam 3) Digital Extremes made a deal with Sony to join PS4 It is pretty clear that DE is aware of these limitations and has been investigating ways to address it. Many possible scenarios could play out, but I think [DE]Steve mentioned moving toward PC/Console update parity. This would require a, likely, update/hot fix release schedule change. In other words DE would likely have to internalize or seperate the early release of updates. If they delayed they will have to rely on internal testers to discover bugs, If they split te servers in two they will need more resources. There are of course many other possibilities, this is just one. There are many possibilities indeed. If Warframe were to split the game into two servers, the first comparison in mind would be LoL PBE, but as you said, it would cost extra resources. I was thinking more towards said internal testers to discover the majority of bugs before releasing updates live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkkterror Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I doubt there would be any discernible difference if they stopped considering Warframe a beta and deemed it "Released." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uppertiggy Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Although this is indeed supposed to be a beta alot of these releases are being treated as an actual full launch with alot of info being held back until features get released live,, this kind of thing is not helpfull when people are meant to be testing things or if one happens to release something that folks either don't want or could have easily given feedback to make something better before a large feature release. There is also the added worry that after a time when a game feels very complete that devs recently like to keep the "beta" tag as a crutch to justify features or mechanics that have been broken and untouched for a long time. PS: love extra credits they do great stuff which i think ALL game devs should take note of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodKitten Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TisForTat Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 I doubt there would be any discernible difference if they stopped considering Warframe a beta and deemed it "Released." I am inclined to agree with that. It would be still be an evolving MMORPG with or without the beta label until DE decided to stop adding content to Warframe. That is another reason in addition to other stated reasons why I do not consider Warframe a beta. Although this is indeed supposed to be a beta alot of these releases are being treated as an actual full launch with alot of info being held back until features get released live,, this kind of thing is not helpfull when people are meant to be testing things or if one happens to release something that folks either don't want or could have easily given feedback to make something better before a large feature release. There is also the added worry that after a time when a game feels very complete that devs recently like to keep the "beta" tag as a crutch to justify features or mechanics that have been broken and untouched for a long time. PS: love extra credits they do great stuff which i think ALL game devs should take note of. Regardless of whether or not we would consider ourselves "open beta testers", we are customers or potential ones if have yet to spend money. This is a commercialized product at the end of the day and like any product, it stops getting put on the shelves when it stops bringing in revenue. Warframe is here to stay until the playerbase moves on, but the playerbase staying is largely contingent on updates. My desire is to see further updates from here on executed far better than that of Update 14. It is by far the most controversial update released to date. There are just as many people praising this update as there as many people disappointed or frusturated. Extra credit does a superb job of evaluating the problem and the cause when it comes down to games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsmoke77 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 beta or not i still have a tenno love for the game it feeds my Mind all the time with out Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnProdman Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Fortunately for DE, it's not your opinion or definition of a Beta that matters, but their own. Thanks for the spam thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelGuardcc Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 its going to stay beta till someone gets Rank 30 and max rank atm is 16, so it will take a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tehnoobshow Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Minecraft was pretty complete when it was in "Beta". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tehnoobshow Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) its going to stay beta till someone gets Rank 30 and max rank atm is 16, so it will take a while Not possible, will need several thousand more weapons and several hundred more Warframes. Edit: Here's the math. Edited July 21, 2014 by Tehnoobshow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TisForTat Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 beta or not i still have a tenno love for the game it feeds my Mind all the time with out Fail. I doubt there are many players that post on the forums or play the game that do not have similar feelings. Why would they bother to if they did not care for the game? I feel similar to you either way, but I would like the community to survive. Fortunately for DE, it's not your opinion or definition of a Beta that matters, but their own. Thanks for the spam thread. I did not get the memo that you were the spokesman for DE and a forum moderator. If DE cares, they care, if they don't, then they don't. If this thread is considered spam by forum moderators, then they will delete or lock it, if this thread isn't considered spam by forums moderators, then they won't. Thanks for the spam reply. its going to stay beta till someone gets Rank 30 and max rank atm is 16, so it will take a while That would be one look at end game, but I would not say that defines the end phase of beta. By the time that happens well, someone else put it rather nicely. Minecraft was pretty complete when it was in "Beta". Indeed it was. Here is one video very relevant to that. Not possible, will need several thousand more weapons and several hundred more Warframes. Edit: Here's the math. Yep, even if we factor in the solar system bonus experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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