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Are We A Warframe Or The Warframes?


Kachocalvo
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basically OP nailed it, but DE continues to fumble around with their own lore

 

each Warframe has an individual tenno inside it, thus excal is a different tenno than rhino for instance

 

but DE has for whatever reason, left this sort of open-ended becuz they like to let everyone kinda decide this for themselves, and whatevs ok im cool with that (i especially like that we wont ever get speaking tenno and/or taking our helmets off, leave that to fan-fiction)

 

but the latest move with the personalized ship and kubrow just muddy's the waters for sure

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Vor said something in the Prolog that I found interesting. He said something about the Warframes being the emotional state of the Tenno, rather than a suit.

 

Wow I didn't notice this.

So we can really be Mia for a week and Michael for the rest of the time, based on our emotions?

 

In the future, changing sex is just so easy.

 

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We are Tenno not the frame itself. Ive always thought that Tenno are souls that inhabit and control the variety of frames. To adapt a line from bioshock Warframes are the paint but Tenno are the canvas. The warframes likely have muscules, sinew, cybernetic implants, and more but the frames themselves are soulless, unmoving, lacking of passion or ambition.

 

At least thats how Ive always looked at it

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The best explanation I can come up with is that the Tenno evolved into non-corporeal beings. They move between frames and become the gender/character of the suit they are in.

 

If you know Babylon 5, they're exactly like the Vorlons with their "encounter suits".

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I mean, in game, I am an individual Tenno with different warframe suit options, each one with its own powers, or I control a bunch of different individual Tennos, each one with its own unique warframe suit and powers?

 

Previously to U14, it was stated by DE that gender swap was not possible because we were not controlling a character with different suit options, but different characters, each with its own armor and powers.

 

But now in U14 I AM the Operator of Ordis, with an INDIVIDUAL ship and a Kubrow loyal to ME, no matter wich character I'm playing. That's a bit confusing.

 

If only the ship had any sign of place for other Tennos (different rooms or cryopods with my other Tennos, or even better, to see any of them wandering through it), it would make sense again.

 

EDIT: Clarifications suggested by PsychedelicSnake post.

 

We are a single Tenno able to wear each and every different Warframe.

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Recently I read a book by Richard Morgan called 'Altered Carbon'

 

It's basic premise was that humanity had learned to digitally copy your conscious mind. When you were born a 'stack' was implanted, basically a high tech hard drive that recorded everything you did. Bodies were called 'sleeves'. If you died and could afford it you could be resleeved in anything you wanted. Male or female sleeves, Military spec combat sleeves, etc. Hell, you could even have multiple copies of yourself running around.

 

I think of my Warframes in this way now.

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Recently I read a book by Richard Morgan called 'Altered Carbon'

 

It's basic premise was that humanity had learned to digitally copy your conscious mind. When you were born a 'stack' was implanted, basically a high tech hard drive that recorded everything you did. Bodies were called 'sleeves'. If you died and could afford it you could be resleeved in anything you wanted. Male or female sleeves, Military spec combat sleeves, etc. Hell, you could even have multiple copies of yourself running around.

 

I think of my Warframes in this way now.

So, cylons then.

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P.s.Rhino P and Hydroid are not male, the first one is a piece of black fat, the latter is an unkown monster.

Edit: No Excalibro P never existed, it's not even in the codex!

It did exist, they took the codex entry out. It was onlly avalible in the earlier stages of the game. I can say that they took out the codex entry because I read the entry myself before it was taken out.

Edited by TheDoctor33
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I agree with multiple posts that maintain the question at hand - of uni-Teno > uni or pol-Warframe - is an artificial one brought about by inconsistencies between the LOGICAL consequences of GAMEPLAY and ACTUAL Lore

 

That said, new information revealed in the Mirage Quest falls very heavily on the side of:

***WARNING!  Do not open if you haven't finished Mirage Quest***

1. Tenno retain a humanoid form within the warframe (Mirage has eyes and smiles)

2. Tenno are mortal, which would argue against the "living energy" concept

3. Tenno are unique, as the Mirage warframe was lost when the Tenno inside it died

 

Alas, the Hidden Message archive itself is plagued with a logical inconsistency ...

Namely how did the information to make "the lost" Mirage's warframe components survive if the warframe itself was "burned away"?  Must be that The Lotus is not all knowing and that there may be another agency - perhaps the one who inscribed the clues - at work that The Lotus does not know about or was intentionally not informed

 

Edit:  Apologies to TheDoctor33 and others ... post corrected to hide spoilers

Edited by ElHefe
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I agree with multiple posts that maintain the question at hand - of uni-Teno > uni or pol-Warframe - is an artificial one brought about by inconsistencies between the LOGICAL consequences of GAMEPLAY and ACTUAL Lore

 

That said, new information revealed in the Mirage Quest falls very heavily on the side of:

1. Tenno retain a humanoid form within the warframe (Mirage has eyes and smiles)

2. Tenno are mortal, which would argue against the "living energy" concept

3. Tenno are unique, as the Mirage warframe was lost when the Tenno inside it died

 

Alas, the Hidden Message archive itself is plagued with a logical inconsistency ...

Namely how did the information to make Mirage's warframe components survive if the warframe was "burned away"?

Spoiler much!!!!

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My itch is that, if we are supposed to be comanding individual beings (a Rhino, a valkyr, whatever), each with his/her own personality (just look at codex entries to find the "his" and "her", they are treated like individuals), I'd like to actually see them in the ship, as I stated in the first post. Imagine yourself walking to the back of the ship, where they are stacked in cryopods, or another possibility, laying around the ship, or even other one, seen training through an unpassable door.

 

About the thing on "Unique" copies of warframes, just check Valkyr's codex entry - "... the ORIGINAL Valkyr..." Valkyr was liberated from the Zanuka project. Now there are more Valkyrs - maybe new Tennos? Same can be applied to mirage.

 

And if we are a unique Tenno using different Warframes... then I want the Gender Swap. Don't remember the game moto being "Transexual Ninjas Play free!".

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Valkyr's codex also states that she was scared and angry after she had been captured and tortured, which implies that Valkyr has her own self, and this can be applied to all other Warframes. So I find it difficult to comprehend the idea that we are supernatural beings moving freely from frame to frame. If each Warframe is soulless then where did Valkyr's "old self" go? Did it just vanish?

If you would like to think it that way it's totally fine and I respect that.

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I agree with multiple posts that maintain the question at hand - of uni-Teno > uni or pol-Warframe - is an artificial one brought about by inconsistencies between the LOGICAL consequences of GAMEPLAY and ACTUAL Lore

 

That said, new information revealed in the Mirage Quest falls very heavily on the side of:

***WARNING!  Do not open if you haven't finished Mirage Quest***

1. Tenno retain a humanoid form within the warframe (Mirage has eyes and smiles)

2. Tenno are mortal, which would argue against the "living energy" concept

3. Tenno are unique, as the Mirage warframe was lost when the Tenno inside it died

 

Alas, the Hidden Message archive itself is plagued with a logical inconsistency ...

Namely how did the information to make "the lost" Mirage's warframe components survive if the warframe itself was "burned away"?  Must be that The Lotus is not all knowing and that there may be another agency - perhaps the one who inscribed the clues - at work that The Lotus does not know about or was intentionally not informed

 

Edit:  Apologies to TheDoctor33 and others ... post corrected to hide spoilers

That kind of made it sound like Tenno are jelly mutants (see Dark Sector) and Warframes are life-support units with gimmicks and whatnot. dun like :/

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Pretty sure this is just a game mechanic that doesn't quite sync with the "reality" of the game. Like Booker Dewitt eating hotdogs out of the garbage in the middle of Columbia while all the gentry folk pay him no mind whatsoever. Nor does he have to take a crap even once over the course of your adventure, despite eating about 15 pineapples found in random mailboxes.

 

DE doesn't bother answering the "lore" question of how we play 20 Tenno suites because there IS no good way to answer it within the confines of how the game works.

 

But if you REALLY have to choose something, why not go full retard? Every Warframe is you and exists in a parallel dimension. Your loadout module is not a storage closet, but a complex hub/bridge between these dimensions using Orokin Tech...allowing any version (aka Warframe) of you to be swapped out with another dimension's version on the fly (even similar versions of Warframes with different shaped heads). The parts you make with the BP's are simply beacons to the trans-dimensional coordinates of the corresponding part of the "Youframe" from the other dimensions. You wouldn't want to port over just the head or nervous system of the other you, so you need all the parts to transfer the whole other you, "making" the frame.

The Tenno Council can "research" whatever new frame they choose by using Orokin tech to plumb the infinite depths of the multiverse for useful Tenno designs. So they can choose to ignore the universe where Tenno formed as having the power to spell extremely well, and focus on more useful dimensions where they developed the power to stomp their feet hard enough to stop time. Infinite dimensions means infinite variations of Warframes. All they need is time....and "development" costs...

Why not just pull every Tenno from every dimension into this one and kill every last thing is sight? I dunno...some BS rule about not being able to take matter from one dimension without replacing it with your own, how about that? Yeah that sounds good...

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Most of the Lore entries, flirtation with Alad V, Valkyr, and now Captain Vor seem to suggest that Tenno are individuals. So Excalibur is not changing his 'frame to Rhino, and Rhino certainly isn't changing to Nyx. Those are just gameplay elements so that we have more than one character to play as. 

Ember's Lore entry does seem to imply that there can be multiples of the same Warframe, however. Such as an entire ship of children with fire powers likely growing up to be Ember. Or the original Valkyr being the result of a Corpus experiment (which does beg the question of where any other Valkyr comes from, or if there is only one.) 

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I think the unfortunate truth is that the lore of this game isn't very well thought out. It's clear that DE has some overarching concept, but the details seem to get made up as they go along and this creates inconstiencies. What's more is that if you watch the dev streams you get the feeling (at least i do) that the devs consider "story" as some feature like a new tileset or prime weapon and not the fundamental part that it should be. It's actually quite surprising given that almost all successful/great games nowadays have an almost Hollywood-like narrative at their core. I've seen people here categorize Warframe as (near) triple-A, but at least story wise this game is miles away from that.

 

Maybe DE should hire a proper writer and start Lore 2.0. 

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I think the unfortunate truth is that the lore of this game isn't very well thought out. It's clear that DE has some overarching concept, but the details seem to get made up as they go along and this creates inconstiencies. What's more is that if you watch the dev streams you get the feeling (at least i do) that the devs consider "story" as some feature like a new tileset or prime weapon and not the fundamental part that it should be. It's actually quite surprising given that almost all successful/great games nowadays have an almost Hollywood-like narrative at their core. I've seen people here categorize Warframe as (near) triple-A, but at least story wise this game is miles away from that.

Maybe DE should hire a proper writer and start Lore 2.0.

Dark Souls says hi to your Hollywood approach. Matter of fact, Warframe's delivery of lore has been compared to the Souls series. Just, I dunno, use the snipets the devs give you and piece it together yourself, isn't that more fun? Your opinion/interpretation of the lore is certainly enhanced by paying attention to detail and delving into the game's obscure and out-of-the-way entries and details, and it just challenges you to think more. I honestly hope they continue to follow the breadcrumb trail style of storytelling (this coming from a huge Souls fan, to be expected of course). Edited by (PS4)Swiggey
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DE doesn't bother answering the "lore" question of how we play 20 Tenno suites because there IS no good way to answer it within the confines of how the game works.

 

But in fact there is a way to answer it right. Each warframe is not unique but a class of warframe (or combat training school, or whatever you want to call it). From your own group of Tennos, you choose one to go on the mission. Think of these groups as independent cells of an organization, resistance guerrilla style. This way, everything fits - fixed genders, more than one warframe class in a mission, collective companions and arsenal... even the reference to "original" Valkyr.

 

Anyway, I like your idea, the weirdest I've read ;)

Edited by Kachocalvo
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It did exist, they took the codex entry out. It was onlly avalible in the earlier stages of the game. I can say that they took out the codex entry because I read the entry myself before it was taken out.

 

I guess you must be a boring man :(

Can't imagine some dude replied that seriously.

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I'd swear that long, long ago in the past year, when the "Give us the gender swap" thing started, DE Steve stated in a livestream that we are in fact controlling different unique characters, what made gender swap impossible, but I'm not going to search through past livestreams to confirm it. if anyone is so kind and has tons of free time to do that search, I'd be honored.

 

Steve was referring to the "Character" of the Warframes, not the Tenno pilots.

 

E.G. Ember is a femm-form Warframe, it's a fundamental to the frame, just as fire is.

 

What that means for our Tenno pilot is still very much up in the air.

 

Though the Mirage quest confirms that Warframe are not unique to a specific Tenno as we build a copy of the Warframe worn by a now dead Tenno, which is referred to in-story not just as a game mechanic. The previous pilot my have been the last or only Mirage pilot, it doesn't matter but we know that _we_ are not that pilot so the Warframe-Tenno relationship cannot be a unique one.

 

So there is definitely not just one Ember, one Excalibur (a-la Borderlands)

Edited by SilentMobius
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But in fact there is a way to answer it right. Each warframe is not unique but a class of warframe (or combat training school, or whatever you want to call it). From your own group of Tennos, you choose one to go on the mission. Think of these groups as independent cells of an organization, resistance guerrilla style. This way, everything fits - fixed genders, more than one warframe class in a mission, collective companions and arsenal... even the reference to "original" Valkyr.

 

Anyway, I like your idea, the weirdest I've read ;)

 

Except every experience and story progression mechanic in the game. They all assume a single POV, a single in-game character.

 

Personally the only interpretation that fits everything (IMHO) is the one used in dark sector:

 

Warframes adjust the pilot to fit.

 

Nadia Sudek couldn't fit inside Nemesis without losing a forearm as shifting her shoulders, elbows, pelvis and knees by about 2 feet summed (Nadia was 5'5 Nemesis was close to 7ft tall man a male-shape suit)

 

Warframe-era suit lines were created with specific first-gen Tenno as a reference point and the shape, power type and "personality" of the Warframe comes from them.

Edited by SilentMobius
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I mean, in game, I am an individual Tenno with different warframe suit options, each one with its own powers, or I control a bunch of different individual Tennos, each one with its own unique warframe suit and powers?

 

Previously to U14, it was stated by DE that gender swap was not possible because we were not controlling a character with different suit options, but different characters, each with its own armor and powers.

 

But now in U14 I AM the Operator of Ordis, with an INDIVIDUAL ship and a Kubrow loyal to ME, no matter wich character I'm playing. That's a bit confusing.

 

If only the ship had any sign of place for other Tennos (different rooms or cryopods with my other Tennos, or even better, to see any of them wandering through it), it would make sense again.

 

EDIT: Clarifications suggested by PsychedelicSnake post.

they did clarify this. If you played the prologue you would have known a Tenno can wear all the warframes because we are like an army of Electro's beings of pure energy that can move between the suits.

 

edit: Vor said so himself.

Edited by Arlayn
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