Better Dumb Enemies: Infested Analysis U14

[notionphil]

Well, instead of knocking you down, the ancients' long range attack could instead lock you in place, forcing you to shoot their hand in order to break free. Since Chargers and Runners pose no threat as long as you can jog, this would present a danger, while also not locking the player into a long, drawn-out animation where they have no control. And since they have pretty absurd range, it would feel less unfair when an ancient hit you from across the room because now you can actually do something about it. 

 

The disruption effect could just prevent the use of powers (or decrease their efficiency) temporarily, instead of just taking away all your energy. As far as the aura goes, the HUD distortion effect might be good by itself.

 

Replace Toxic damage with Corrosive damage, increase the damage, and make the Mutalists' clouds small enough that you can roll to the side and not still be in the AoE. You should be punished for running into the cloud or staying in the cloud, not just because you happened to be in the huge, almost-instant AoE and you get stuck with a status effect that's going to deal 200-300 unavoidable damage straight to health. 

 

Give Runners and Leapers some physical armour (like the Shield Lancers) to protect them somewhat from the front (this armour would only be effective against ranged weapons). 

 

Give special crawlers the ability to buff allies with their damage type (except toxic).

 

That's just off the top of my head. 

 

The current updated infested is just more unavoidable attacks with irritating effects that can only be solved by increasing DPS. only the Ancient Healer really adds anything that requires any thought, and even then, it can be overcome easily by higher DPS..

 

Your attack is actually far more dangerous than the current one IMO, which is as likely to drag you out of trouble as into it. Being held in place and having to target a single elongated limb, or be torn apart by a mob of chargers/leapers etc....not going to be the most popular change in the world.

 

I do agree (and suggest) that you should be able to shoot the ancient (or the arm) while being dragged however, which would stop his pull. Honestly, I have found that if I keep moving I rarely get pulled by ancients. The only time they get me now (and this is not a L2P post, but just observations) is when I am stationary, or when there is a huge crowd and I couldn't see them.

 

I think their pull should require clear LOS and have a reasonable max range. Getting pulled from behind a crowd will get old fast.

 

RE: disruption, it does not take away all of your energy any longer according to patch notes. I have seen it work correctly, and also fully drain me.

 

RE: Toxic, I do suggest that you (and everyone who cares) should go run a few test missions against infested and just observer and stay alive. These clouds/procs are simply not doing 200+ unavoidable health damage anymore. They really aren't, at least when I played all day on Sat they weren't. I rarely got a proc, and when I did, it dealt like 10 damage a tick.

 

Having said that, I absolutely abhor procs being RNG based, but if the effects are reasonable like a low chance for 20% of your HP, it's not the end of the world.

 

I think we're all still fearing the original One-hit-KO-clouds that the Mutalist's started out with.

 

Imagine if an ancient required a skillshot? What sort of fury would explode on the forums?! Even the fact that you have to back away from infested while firing is already upsetting some people.

 

The current updated infested is just more unavoidable attacks with irritating effects that can only be solved by increasing DPS. only the Ancient Healer really adds anything that requires any thought, and even then, it can be overcome easily by higher DPS..

 

Please keep this convo true...

 

Nothing in the new infested requires more DPS than before. The major difference is that in order to escape significant harm you must use a combination of melee and firearms, or firearms and evasion.

 

You don't need to increase DPS, you just need to apply the right type of DPS to certain targets first, while being more mobile. The pull is an exception to this which can become unfair and should be tweaked.

 

In the chaotic carnage fest that is WF, almost all of our problems will/should be solvable by throwing DPS in the general direction of our enemies. All we can hope is that "more DPS" is not the best solution, but simply one solution.

 

I feel that the Disruptor's power resist + the Healers self-buff if you hurt allies + the toxic anti gas buff fit this. More DPS is a solution, but target prioritization and changing damage types are the best solution.

 

I'd love tweaks, but I'll take this over the old infested "apply DPS in this direction" which worked equally well against every mob in the faction, on every level.

[noveltyhero]

My feedback on this would rely on the art of the pull from the Ancients. It is a dodgy looking rope pulling you, it would be cool if:

 

1. There was a build up in animation so you know a difference between him attacking normally and him pulling somebody or you

2. The animation was different, maybe their mouths open up or they bend over  and their back opens up to grapple you, something different so it looks like it fits and you understand what is going on by reflex

[notionphil]

My feedback on this would rely on the art of the pull from the Ancients. It is a dodgy looking rope pulling you, it would be cool if:

 

1. There was a build up in animation so you know a difference between him attacking normally and him pulling somebody or you

2. The animation was different, maybe their mouths open up or they bend over  and their back opens up to grapple you, something different so it looks like it fits and you understand what is going on by reflex

 

This is a really good point, it's tough to know if he's going to attack or pull.

 

It appears that now you can strafe to dodge either, but it would be good to know.

[noveltyhero]

This is a really good point, it's tough to know if he's going to attack or pull.

 

It appears that now you can strafe to dodge either, but it would be good to know.

Additionally, not sure if this was just me though but I found that the Mutalists spawn way too much and since they hover awkwardly they can be quite hard to hit when there are 5 of them, a swarm of enemies and their clouds cover up the map :S

 

+The pull itself should not do any damage, I died from one and it really tends to bug you into places since your character is in a different position when downed

[SableSonata]

I don't know about you, but enemies can still attack me while I'm being dragged or getting up. They can also hit you with toxic or take your energy as they bring you closer. Being stopped and immediately able to defend yourself is better than being completely defenseless for several seconds while enemies wail on you.

 

Most of the time when I get pulled it's because I got stuck on the map or on enemies and I get hit from across the room. I don't think collision issues are something that should punish the player.

 

Ancient Disruptors can still take all of your energy if they get their proc, and now they also drain energy if you're near them. Solution: kill them faster.

Toxin still does at least 100-150 damage depending on armour and enemy level, and the amount doesn't change that it's random, unavoidable damage that does not recover on its own. Solution: kill them faster.

 

Nothing requires more DPS, but now you're punished more for having lower DPS. They didn't make the enemies harder to kill, but they made them stronger, meaning you're in more danger the longer they live. More DPS is the best solution, because that's the only way to avoid most of the status effects and knockdowns, or being swamped with enemies. They are more dangerous, but they require no thought. The best solution in all situations is more DPS.

 

Even the Ancient Healer isn't a priority target because it's easier to just kill everything around it instead of focusing on the ancient because if anyone attacks anything else, intentional or not, it'll just heal itself. 

[notionphil]

 

More DPS is the best solution, because that's the only way to avoid most of the status effects and knockdowns, or being swamped with enemies. They are more dangerous, but they require no thought. The best solution in all situations is more DPS.

 

Player A: Prioritizes DPS over mobility, without regard to which target its being applied to, and which damage type/weapon he has equipped (EX: constant firing at closest enemy) 

 

Player B:  Plays evasively, neutralizes high value targets first, uses melee and range when appropriate, avoids auras and toxic clouds.

 

You honestly believe Player A will survive better vs Infested? He'll be constantly pulled, staggered by explosions from volatile runners, leapers etc.

 

EDIT - none of your points address the fact that the Infested were previously so mindbogglingly boring, you could literally sit in a corner with the ignis and the mouse button held down, and kill them infinitely. Or stand on a tower and click penta forever. Which many actually did.

 

We're not comparing New Infested vs the-best-faction-that-could-ever-be-created-by-a-game-dev. We are comparing it to the mindless, boring old infested. (and then making suggestions to improve it).

Edited July 21, 2014 by notionphil

[Feallike]

The new Infested was a change for the better.

 

New Healer, Now you can't sit up high with explosive weapons. -.- You have to aim now, WOW SO HARD!!!!

 

-Mutalist: Yes there hitbox needs fixed, but thats it.

 

-Volatile runners are obviously glitched. >.>

 

Everything else is fine.

[Thelonious]

Player A: Prioritizes DPS over mobility, without regard to which target its being applied to, and which damage type/weapon he has equipped (EX: constant firing at closest enemy) 

 

Player B:  Plays evasively, neutralizes high value targets first, uses melee and range when appropriate, avoids auras and toxic clouds.

 

You honestly believe Player A will survive better vs Infested? He'll be constantly pulled, staggered by explosions from volatile runners, leapers etc.

 

EDIT - none of your points address the fact that the Infested were previously so mindbogglingly boring, you could literally sit in a corner with the ignis and the mouse button held down, and kill them infinitely. Or stand on a tower and click penta forever. Which many actually did.

 

We're not comparing New Infested vs the-best-faction-that-could-ever-be-created-by-a-game-dev. We are comparing it to the mindless, boring old infested. (and then making suggestions to improve it).

 

The issue here might be the ignis/penta, not the infested themselves.

What you're implying here is that the infested was buffed because the players [tools] were too strong.

In which case that buff is just adding to the power creep pile.

Just saying.

 

And I don't think the player B strategy is totally viable in practice.

With the amount of enemies on the screen and their spawning randomness, evasive maneuvres can only last so long, before you get f*cked by -one- single enemy you couldn't neutralize, because you couldn't see him coming or got overwhelmed. The last one being more probable than before thanks to damage resistance auras.

 

So DPS is still a relevant factor here. A newbie can get f*cked both ways: because he couldn't evade attacks properly, and because he doesn't have enough dps to avoid being zerged.

 

The point is, I don't know if anyone underlined it, they got a double buff (arguably triple with the increased move speed): they get more ways to neutralize the player (through cc's), AND they get a way to neutralize our damage.

2 factors (in both literal and mathematical manner)

Which results in an exponential increase of their threat level.  

 

Transition for the player (adapting his playstyle to those new factors), and further balancing, gets more difficult if multiple factors are introduced at the same time.

It would have required slow and progressive implementation for every factor to be properly tweaked.

imho

Edited July 21, 2014 by Thelonious

[notionphil]

The issue here might be the ignis/penta, not the infested themselves.

What you're implying here is that the infested was buffed because the players [tools] were too strong.

In which case that buff is just adding to the power creep pile.

Just saying.

 

And I don't think the player B strategy is totally viable in practice.

With the amount of enemies on the screen and their spawning randomness, evasive maneuvres can only last so long, before you get f*cked by -one- single enemy you couldn't neutralize, because you couldn't see him coming or got overwhelmed. The last one being more probable than before thanks to damage resistance auras.

 

So DPS is still a relevant factor here. A newbie can get f*cked both ways: because he couldn't evade attacks properly, and because he doesn't have enough dps to avoid being zerged.

 

The point is, I don't know if anyone underlined it, they got a double buff (arguably triple with the increased move speed): they get more ways to neutralize the player (through cc's), AND they get a way to neutralize our damage.

2 factors (in both literal and mathematical manner)

Which results in an exponential increase of their threat level.  

 

Transition for the player (adapting his playstyle to those new factors), and further balancing, gets more difficult if multiple factors are introduced at the same time.

It would have required slow and progressive implementation for every factor to be properly tweaked.

imho

 

Agreed with nearly everything you are saying here, as stated in the OP.

 

(except power creep. Enemy strength increasing is not power creep, it's balance with our existing creep).

 

Transition was too abrupt and not clear enough. Procs, even reduced, are still RNG and add even less certainty/understanding to combat.

 

DPS (past "average") is a relevant factor. It's just not the MOST relevant factor, or the best way to deal with infested. Mobility and target prioritization are very, very important now.

 

....until the uber late waves when spawn rates don't take into consideration all the new ways we can be killed...and it's game over for pretty much everyone. But that's a spawn rate issue; I'll take interesting/fun/challenging play instead of boring play that can be made indefinite.

 

EDIT - added power creep statement

Edited July 21, 2014 by notionphil

[Azamagon]

I personally like all the new stuff on the Infested, in particularly the spasticly dodging Leapers :)

 

But the fact that Disruptors (and Magnetic procs in general) still have 100% energy drain is still stupidly broken and a BORING mechanic. Magnetic proc can still be antishields, hud scramble and anti-casting... but the 100% energydrain needs to be removed. It's so dull.

[SableSonata]

Player A: Prioritizes DPS over mobility, without regard to which target its being applied to, and which damage type/weapon he has equipped (EX: constant firing at closest enemy) 

 

Player B:  Plays evasively, neutralizes high value targets first, uses melee and range when appropriate, avoids auras and toxic clouds.

 

You honestly believe Player A will survive better vs Infested? He'll be constantly pulled, staggered by explosions from volatile runners, leapers etc.

 

EDIT - none of your points address the fact that the Infested were previously so mindbogglingly boring, you could literally sit in a corner with the ignis and the mouse button held down, and kill them infinitely. Or stand on a tower and click penta forever. Which many actually did.

 

We're not comparing New Infested vs the-best-faction-that-could-ever-be-created-by-a-game-dev. We are comparing it to the mindless, boring old infested. (and then making suggestions to improve it).

That's going a bit far. Obviously someone who's going for max DPS is going to use the proper elements, and they're not going to be significantly less mobile because you can move and shoot at the same time. The difference is in whether or not one prioritizes certain enemies, which doesn't make a whole lot of difference. And it doesn't change that if you have low DPS, you will be punished for it because even if you prioritize, their effects aren't based on skill; just on how long you let them live. Lower DPS, longer life, more opportunity to exercise their arbitrary effects.

 

And people still stand on towers with pentas and ogris...es. In fact, because infested punish players for even being close to them, it's an even better strategy than before. Melee is pretty much useless against infested now because they punish by proximity more than ever. 

 

The only significant change to infested survival was the Ancient Healer, and the only thing it really changed is that now the Healers will be the last to die.

[notionphil]

That's going a bit far. Obviously someone who's going for max DPS is going to use the proper elements, and they're not going to be significantly less mobile because you can move and shoot at the same time. The difference is in whether or not one prioritizes certain enemies, which doesn't make a whole lot of difference. And it doesn't change that if you have low DPS, you will be punished for it because even if you prioritize, their effects aren't based on skill; just on how long you let them live. Lower DPS, longer life, more opportunity to exercise their arbitrary effects.

 

And people still stand on towers with pentas and ogris...es. In fact, because infested punish players for even being close to them, it's an even better strategy than before. Melee is pretty much useless against infested now because they punish by proximity more than ever. 

 

The only significant change to infested survival was the Ancient Healer, and the only thing it really changed is that now the Healers will be the last to die.

 

So your point is, "when other skills are utilized properly, adding DPS makes you more effective against the infested"?

 

Yes, that is definitely true. That's not contrary to my point at all. My point, if we crystallize it to one statement is:

 

Target prioritization, situational awareness and mobility are more important than ever with the new Infested changes, and that is a good thing.

 

We must play very differently for you to find the old infested more interesting and engaging than the new. Well, can't agree on everything.

[notionphil]

I personally like all the new stuff on the Infested, in particularly the spasticly dodging Leapers :)

 

But the fact that Disruptors (and Magnetic procs in general) still have 100% energy drain is still stupidly broken and a BORING mechanic. Magnetic proc can still be antishields, hud scramble and anti-casting... but the 100% energydrain needs to be removed. It's so dull.

 

I'm going to spend a few runs this week getting disrupted and get down to the bottom of how these guys are working, to see if its as intended. It really would be nice for the codex to actually give numbers and such for how enemies work.

[ForgemasterHD]

While I have no issue with most of the changes made to the infested (save maybe scorpion pulls), My issue is with the Ospreys. I don't mind an enemy that can lay down poison clouds, but I take issue with the ospreys simply because they blend in too much with the rest of the crowd. Generally speaking, the Osprey are hard to locate before they can launch their attack, and really seem to come out of nowhere. This makes concentrating on target priority difficult, as they can seemingly come out of nowhere.

 

Unfortunately, I cannot think of any good way that we could make them more visible without radical alterations to how they look, but I do think something about how they fly or how they look needs to make them more...apparent when faced with a crowd.

[Thelonious]

(except power creep. Enemy strength increasing is not power creep, it's balance with our existing creep).

 

No, it's just another good reason for players to ask for buffs.

Now they're way tougher to fight against, everything that was not optimal to fight with (be it frames or weapons) is now even weaker in comparaison.

i.e: I'm even less inclined to bring anything else than Vauban+Penta (or whatever combo is OP against infested) now the risk of failure is way higher.

In the end it just widens the gap of imbalance.

 

....until the uber late waves when spawn rates don't take into consideration all the new ways we can be killed...and it's game over for pretty much everyone. But that's a spawn rate issue; I'll take interesting/fun/challenging play instead of boring play that can be made indefinite.

 

Spawning is an issue in ANY GAME TYPE. Not just in endless missions. 

I already told you, you just cannot give enemies abilities with skill-based counterplay, if the spawning RNG is not moderated at some point.

 

You can be as evasive as you want, or focus targets like a sniper, it does not matter when you can't see it coming, or when there's absolutly no timing window

Try avoiding 3 ancients grappling you one after the other (one of them behind your back) while kiting chargers and focusing your fire on an osprey.

It happens, really. In any mission. And for unexperienced players, it means only thing: game over.

[notionphil]

 

Spawning is an issue in ANY GAME TYPE. Not just in endless missions. 

I already told you, you just cannot give enemies abilities with skill-based counterplay, if the spawning RNG is not moderated at some point.

 

You can be as evasive as you want, or focus targets like a sniper, it does not matter when you can't see it coming, or when there's absolutly no timing window

Try avoiding 3 ancients grappling you one after the other (one of them behind your back) while kiting chargers and focusing your fire on an osprey.

It happens, really. In any mission. And for unexperienced players, it means only thing: game over.

 

And I already told you:

 

I agree about the spawning mechanism

 

And:

 

 

[from OP of "better dumb enemies thread"]

We don't need all enemies to be powerful. We just need occasional challenges or situations which make us feel "tested" so we can be victorious.

 

 

 

How To Improve Infested (and enemies in general going forward)?

 

• Remember that when you add complexity, you need to adjust spawn rates/XP rewards and enemy density calculations. Killing 10 mindless waddling ancients at a time was a simple button press. New ancients should probably be more rare and worth more XP. You don't need 10 at a time to make combat challenging anymore.

   

• Remember that every single enemy doesn't need to be "interesting". It's great for a few enemy combos to mix up gameplay, but we don't need every enemy to stagger, stun, kd, shock, poison or drain.

   

Challenge can stem from a few special enemies or occasional difficulty spikes to test our skills; it doesn't require a constant run for our lives!

 

None of these negate my opinion that Infested are a better faction now. Spawning still needs to be fixed, as I have been saying for a long time.

 

EDIT - RE: your examples. No, that unfortunate scenario actually doesn't happen to "inexperienced players".

 

Infested isn't even on the low level planets normally. On def and survival Ancients don't spawn until after you already have a chance to exit and complete the mission. And they don't spawn en-masse in non endless missions until high level. So, if "inexperienced players" are sticking around until wave 10+, or running level 30+ missions, they they are asking for a challenge.

Edited July 21, 2014 by notionphil

[Kaboinglefop]

I agree with most of your improvements and would make fighting the infested faction much more enjoyable, especially the ability to shoot the ancient while being dragged to have them drop you.

[weirdee]

runners always exploding unless you melee them somewhat limits gameplay

[notlamprey]

I always felt that the Volatile Runners served the purpose of delaying/preventing shield recharge, and that their explosions didn't need to be powerful or cause stagger. They already seemed to serve a purpose.

 

I'm not sure I like the return of stagger bombs, and I'm dubious about their preference to explode when killed with guns.

[Thelonious]

And I already told you:

 

 

And:

 

 

 

 

 

None of these negate my opinion that Infested are a better faction now. Spawning still needs to be fixed, as I have been saying for a long time.

 

EDIT - RE: your examples. No, that unfortunate scenario actually doesn't happen to "inexperienced players".

 

Infested isn't even on the low level planets normally. On def and survival Ancients don't spawn until after you already have a chance to exit and complete the mission. And they don't spawn en-masse in non endless missions until high level. So, if "inexperienced players" are sticking around until wave 10+, or running level 30+ missions, they they are asking for a challenge.

 

Oh sorry, I admit I was too lazy to read all of the OP. I apologize.

 

Just one thing though: Invasions appear everywhere but Mercury, with the planet level range. 

En-masse spawns, and much worse, "backdoor" spawns, happen whatever the level range is.

As long as one enemy type can spawn (enemy type appearance is still dependant on level range, which is around 10 for ancients), 2 or more is also a possibility.

Why do you think we get so many threads of new players complaining about stun-locks, or even specifically about ancients? because it happens very soon (and very often) in the new player experience.

 

It's not challenge, nor dynamic difficulty increase. It's bad RNG mechanics. Just like dropping 2 lokiP chassis in a row, or none after trying 30 times. Extreme cases that happen way too much in this game, and result in a very bad player experience.

Much more obvious when playing solo, where every single enemy matters, but multiplayer is just as much affected (with even more enemies)

 

And it's not like it only affects Infested either...

But you already know that for sure. I'm just preaching to the choir.

[SableSonata]

Target prioritization, situational awareness and mobility are more important than ever with the new Infested changes, and that is a good thing.

 

But they're not more important now (except maybe mobility, but even that's not in a good way). Infested plays exactly the same now as it did before, except enemies have more unavoidable, irritating attacks. Knowing that there's a mutalist osprey doesn't help you if the AoE is so large that it's practically unavoidable. Mobility is only more important because now players are punished simply for being close to enemies. 

 

There is absolutely zero thought involved. No matter how much you pay attention, and how much you move, unless you hide on top of something and rain death down, you will inevitably be hit by an annoying ability, and that doesn't make the game fun, because the only thing a player can do to actually avoid it is to kill enemies faster, and if it takes them longer to kill something, then they're going to be hit with said abilities more often, regardless of how aware or mobile they are.

 

Situational awareness, prioritization and mobility don't help when you round a corner and suddenly you're on your back with no energy, poisoned, and surrounded by enemies that can effectively stunlock you, if you live long enough to get up, that is. 

[CapedBaldy]

I admit I skimmed through the topic, but nobody here mentioned 2 healers giving each other resistance auras? The healers damage resistance is so wonky I don't even know how it works, it's not very intuitive. Ever since the change, I've changed my priority on infested to healers because they're literally the only thing that's actually dangerous, only to find out I deal paltry damage even when they're alone with just a melee weapon. I don't understand how it works at all.

Edited July 22, 2014 by CapedBaldy

[Renegade343]

That would make even more sense now, as the runners and leapers do deal "burst" damage.

Yes, but let there be a bit of variety of how the Infested deal their damage. Either large burst damage, or weak continuous/fast damage.

[Redscyte]

  Iv said it before and ill say it again, the key to good mechanics are not in the damage but the utility, TBH id rather a charger just 1 hit me that to be tied up in never ending pulls back and forth between Ancients to see whose going to fist me first, all while its the crawler thats whacking me to death. I wont lie i love the challenge it, i love the sense of fear when i hear the shrieks of the infested but with 2/3 of the melee weapons null-void due to crap animations that leave you exposed, and range weapons dropping off due to them closing the range down, its bad enough that the infinite loop of CC is what kills you.

 -I have special builds just for the infested all using Max Fortitude and Surefooted, but its that 20% left over that gets you killed. These need to add up to 100%. Takes up two mod slots, cmon.

 -Some say "well just block" well i would love to, but that means my melee has to bee out 100% of time, and with melee in a bad of spot as it is, your killing yourself on your own. Seriously DE, go play Dynasty Warriors and profit.

  -Block makeups. I have tested over and over with block/parry make ups, and I thought this new sword and board would be amazing. but NO. You would think that with a shield in your hand its special utility would be to soak up damage with less stamina use, That was a hope. Parry does nothing almost feeling its broken just like Quick Thinking.

  -Apply some Left for Dead mechanics, make ancients grab you in a hold and make a very distinct alert for teammates to come free there buddy. While in the hold drain you energy chunk by chunk, not instantly. 

  -That instant energy drain... Prolly the most broken part about them, there are builds centered around energy, 1/2 the game is all about the abilities. To be shut down so fast to enemies that weren't there a second ago is bogus. Like the guy above me said RNG in action games is bad. I should not leave a room, look outside see a wave of infested, crap my pants and turn around to go back to that room, and instead of finding sanctuary, find 3 ancients sapping my energy while in a tugging match over whose gonna fist me first.

  -Add reversals, Let the hook hit and say if i dont hit my dodge/parry/w.e button then he pulls me, otherwise i wrap my hand around it and pull him into me = sick animation + total ninja badassery, right?

Add if you like infested survivals for shyts and giggles

[Mazikeen]

These changes are indeed definitly a step in the right direction.

But I feel that complete loss of control is just like immunity : whoever uses them, the other is unable to fight back. These two kind of abilities are just fun destroyers; bad design.

The stagger from Runners being a (short) complete loss of control, I'm not a big fan. I'd rather have a partial loss of control. For instance, the explosion could project some slime, snaring us for a few seconds.

And, as suggested before, the hook (from ancients or scorpions) should not prevent us from shooting (only secondary weapons, like during bleedouts?). Or, allows us to cut the "rope" with the melee weapon (but it could be weird to cut it with a hammer or a whip, so, maybe use melee to just free).

Regarding the Ospreys, I do not see any big issue. A bigger hitbox would be nice. Maybe putting the gas cloud on the floor (a bit like Oberon's Hallowed Ground) would make it easier to avoid. But, since as long as we move, we take zero to one tick, I feel it's fine.

The biggest limitation to Infested remains pathfinding. Any bottleneck greatly reduces their offensive capacity (more than other factions, who tend to fallback/wait). And solving this point might prove difficult (because they all walk and all melee... wall/ceiling crawling for crawlers?)