Simply Swap Kubrow Dna Integrity With Loyalty

[Hixlysss]

People, STASIS.

 

Put your KUbrow in Stasis and no worries on him dropping.

Yes, we put our kubrow in stasis, then we have to wait 3 hours before we use them again. That doesn't address the issue of losing DNA integrity with every freaking mission you go on. As it stands, keeping loyalty and DNA integrity up is a bit much and really limits what you can do with your kubrow. Oh, you wanted to run several missions with your kubrow? Well Sorry, you're out of DNA integrity shots and you've used up all your loyalty boosting petting today, so you're kubrow is now at -80% DNA Integrity and -40% loyalty, if you run one more mission your kubrow is now at -100% DNA integrity and is now dead. You have lost your kubrow.

 

The current way they function does not benefit the people who PLAY this game. The game is "Grind, grind, grind." Which means "Go into mission over and over and over and over." And we want to run with our kubrow, but if we run more than what...maybe 15 missions we lose our kubrow. We can run as many missions as we want with our tenno, but the kubrows have a hard set LIMIT on how many runs we can do with them per day before we have to put em away.

[Hexagoros]

But this leaves a 3 hour period you can't use him/her to bring into battle, and as people have said, (And now that I am on board.) People should *not* be penalized just for not being here. There's so many ways to forget to put them in stasis, like I just forgot to /)_-''

 

That problem will be gone once you can afford a regular supply of Stabilizers.

 

Seriously, once you unlock some of the higher planets and Void missions, 100K credits is seriously not that much.

[Kratos]

That problem will be gone once you can afford a regular supply of Stabilizers.

 

Seriously, once you unlock some of the higher planets and Void missions, 100K credits is seriously not that much.

The problem exists regardless for those who happen to accidentally leave their computer home due to an emergency or vacation. Not me, specifically. I can just run 4 T3E and get the credits necesarry, but it's going to be hard doing this if you're not there, or if you're a new player just getting into the game.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Rarityframe

[Davoodoo]

That problem will be gone once you can afford a regular supply of Stabilizers.

 

Seriously, once you unlock some of the higher planets and Void missions, 100K credits is seriously not that much.

Seriously what do you need to keep regular supply of stabilizers??

Play only dark sectors and voids??

100k itself isnt a problem but after few missions your kubrow is dead anyway so you need to keep with high earnings.

 

But why is it even needed to buy those stabilizers?? what special feature does kubrow have??

Full powered body armor packed with dual miniguns and homing missile launcher on its back?? no they are just biting dmg isnt that much higher than maxed sweeper and range on sweeper is higher and it doesnt cost you to keep it alive.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Hexagoros]

Seriously what do you need to keep regular supply of stabilizers??

Play only dark sectors and voids??

100k itself isnt a problem but after few missions your kubrow is dead anyway so you need to keep with high earnings.

 

But why is it even needed to buy those stabilizers?? what special feature does kubrow have??

Full powered body armor packed with dual miniguns and homing missile launcher on its back?? no they are just biting dmg isnt that much higher than maxed sweeper and range on sweeper is higher and it doesnt cost you to keep it alive.

 

My modded, level 30 sunika is more help than most random players.

 

He has more health than my Valkyre at 1200+ hp, and more armor of my rhino prime, at roughly 600+ armor irc.  This is when he is linked to my Valkyre, which is my main warframe.

 

That 'SHOULD' require some hefty player investment.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Hexagoros

[Davoodoo]

My modded, level 30 sunika is more help than most random players.

 

He has more health than my Valkyre at 1200+ hp, and more armor of my rhino prime, at roughly 600+ armor irc.  This is when he is linked to my Valkyre, which is my main warframe.

 

That 'SHOULD' require some hefty player investment.

Sweet, my carrier have 640 hp and get up after being killed so 1280 hp, 105 armor,  375shields, regens my shields when they drop, slows nearby enemies and sucks all loot back to me, ive put enough work to slap all 8 mods on sweeper so he can basically solo most, if not all of solar chart.

 

Guess what, doesnt require me to pay anything anymore.

 

That bit of extra survi and dmg literally isnt worth 100k upkeep.

[Lumireaver]

Almost makes it seem like the current implementation was a typo.

[Xarteros]

Firstly, I understand that you can put it in stasis, but as everyone has mentioned, you can't use it or swap it for 3 hours unless you burn the 10 plat. The main issue I have with it is that you CAN'T let it grow out of stasis, unless I've been misinformed. You have to leave it out in the incubator and it loses integrity before you can even use the damn thing. At the very least, you should get your matured Kubrow at 100% health and be able to either use it or put it in stasis

I do understand the idea behind genetic degradation, since it's a feral egg, you've manipulated its genetic structure. I still wouldn't call it a clone, unless you physically clone it when it dies. If we control it with some form of retrovirus (to manipulate its DNA and override certain genetic traits to restore long-buried ones), it makes sense to degrade over time and be able to fix it back up with another retrovirus injection, but even so it shouldn't be as fast and it still wouldn't affect health, so swapping Loyalty to have the passive loss over time would make more sense.

I think having a high-costing penalty for letting your Kubrow die should be more than sufficient. Make it so every time it dies, it loses 25% of its DNA integrity since you have to either do some fancy medical stuff or outright clone a new one. Enough deaths and i hear it becomes permanently dead (at -100% DNA integrity)? That way, you still have to invest the same cost to fix it, but it isn't degrading so rapidly over time, which makes no sense from a genetic standpoint. Any creature that died naturally after 10 days due to genetic breakdown isn't worth using as a pet.

I think at the very worst, at -100% DNA Integrity, it should begin to revert to its feral state (since you're only modifying a natural feral Kubrow, it could be reversible), becoming completely unusable until you get DNA Stabilizers, or possibly some bigger, more powerful injection that you need Earth plants to craft (some Moonlight Dragonlily or something) which would give those plants another use again.

I suppose I'd still want Loyalty to drop when you let it die during a mission, so Loyalty reduces over time as well as with death, and DNA integrity just reduces with death. That way, you're forced to use up your loyalty-increasing cuddle sessions if you let it die a lot, but you can still have a net-gain in loyalty if you log in once every day and pat your Kubrow (or chuck it in stasis to avoid losing any more)

 

[Casardis]

^ The numbers will need adjusting of course, so that both things doesn't get lost too fast. I think the Kubrow would lose more loyalty from neglect rather than mission "deaths" since it's loyal to guard you and defend you till the end.

 

They also need to fix them so they actually bleed out. The whole Kubrow thing is so buggy that I wonder sometimes if the wrong build got out when they delayed the release XD /half-joking

[TheStag]

I do not think that the current system is very bad, but it needs some tweaks. The DNA Stabilizer needs to have a much reduced build and credit cost, and when a Kubrow dies, the loyalty should not go down as much as it currently does. Simple tweaks could made the current system much better than it currently is. It is easy to see what DE was trying to do, but they turned Kubrows into a massive time/credit sink in the process of attempting to achieve their goals.

[NuLycan]

Honestly, I don't see why the Kubrows need to keep their DNA integrity up at all. We found a naturally created egg and hatched it.

 

How in the world did every single player get a faulty egg that produced a kubrow that requires to be fed constant meds to be at its best? EDIT: I guess that egg was technically faulty because it normally would have become feral, but as a gameplay aspect it's still lame.

 

It should just have loyalty, or maybe a small fee to revive it if it dies. As it stands, Kubrows seem to be little more than a constant plat/credit sink.

Edited July 22, 2014 by NuLycan

[HerasDeath]

I just realized Kubrows are diseased....this makes me sad. I will never unfreeze my kubrow anymore.It pains me to wait 3hours just so her health will drop another 20%, sick of this.

Edited July 22, 2014 by HerasDeath

[gallowsCalibrator]

This makes about 91294821984% more sense than the current system.

 

 

People, STASIS.

 

Put your KUbrow in Stasis and no worries on him dropping.

There's no point unless you don't want to use them, as it takes 3 hours to recover from stasis and actually be combat-ready, unless you want to pay 10 plat to rush it.

Edited July 22, 2014 by gallowsCalibrator

[Slaviar]

It should be changed. Current system doesn't make sense. Tenno are able to grow usable infested weapons but can't manipulate Kubrow's DNA without breaking sth? Also it's hard to keep Kubrow's loyalty high because you are able to replenish it only few times per day and they die a lot. Would be easier to farm credits to buy stabilizers or leave your Kubrow on board when it's health is low

[SirAuron]

All this is too much work and simply too much to have to log.

 

Even in stasis, if you take it out, you have to log back in to put it in stasis again later.

 

Sounds lame.

Edited July 22, 2014 by SirAuron

[SirAuron]

I do not think that the current system is very bad, but it needs some tweaks. The DNA Stabilizer needs to have a much reduced build and credit cost, and when a Kubrow dies, the loyalty should not go down as much as it currently does. Simple tweaks could made the current system much better than it currently is. It is easy to see what DE was trying to do, but they turned Kubrows into a massive time/credit sink in the process of attempting to achieve their goals.

I see you love taking care of pets, others do not feel that way.

[SirAuron]

All the other f2p MMOs I have played have simple pet systems.

 

Dungeon Fighter Online

Rusty Hearts

Vindictus

Dragon Nest

Tera

Marvel Heroes

Guild Wars 2(Rangers only)

Fallout(Not an MMO, but close enough)

DC Universe

 

Those are great pet systems. No high maintenance bullS#&$, straight up simple stuff. AT this point, Zanuka sounds like a better pet. So much for Kubrow(mania), people are sticking to sentinels. Don't see a lot of kubrows around, if one is around, it's usually only one Kubrow that is around.

 

Sentinels is the way to go. They take care of themselves and don't force you to put aside other things to care for them like some high maintenance Diva girlfriend that wants you all to yourself and nags you to death and wants this or wants that.

 

The dev team once again fails to think things through, they dive in headfirst and make changes later.

[Varzy]

I like this. DE, please consider.

 

Also, is anyone testing to see if kubrows actually die when DNA degregation reaches -100%?

[Grabehn]

I like this. DE, please consider.

 

Also, is anyone testing to see if kubrows actually die when DNA degregation reaches -100%?

I read on the Steam forums that a Dev told someone that they do die if that happens, but there wasn't a quote AND it was "someone talking about someone else", so I couldn't say for sure.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Grabehn

[Xarteros]

If nothing gets changed, I propose they create a new blueprint that uses various Earth plants (since they currently have no real purpose anymore) to create packs of DNA stabilizers. If a Kubrow reaches -100% DNA Integrity, make them turn feral instead of dying, and make a more difficult to craft Stabilizer blueprint, that requires the rarer Earth plants. I've made a quick example of 3 Blueprints below.

20% Booster 5-pack --> 25,000 Credits, 10 Sunlight/Moonlight Threshcone extract
50% Booster 3-pack --> 30,000 Credits, 10 Sunglight/Moonlight Threscone extract, 5 Sunlight/Moonlight Dragonlily extract

100% Booster 1-pack* --> 50,000 Credits, 10 Sunlight/Moonlight Dragonlily extract, 5 Sunlight/Moonlight Jadeleaf extract

*(Only thing that can cure your Feral Kubrow from -100%)

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

If nothing gets changed, I propose they create a new blueprint that uses various Earth plants (since they currently have no real purpose anymore) to create packs of DNA stabilizers. If a Kubrow reaches -100% DNA Integrity, make them turn feral instead of dying, and make a more difficult to craft Stabilizer blueprint, that requires the rarer Earth plants. I've made a quick example of 3 Blueprints below.

20% Booster 5-pack --> 25,000 Credits, 10 Sunlight/Moonlight Threshcone extract

50% Booster 3-pack --> 30,000 Credits, 10 Sunglight/Moonlight Threscone extract, 5 Sunlight/Moonlight Dragonlily extract

100% Booster 1-pack* --> 50,000 Credits, 10 Sunlight/Moonlight Dragonlily extract, 5 Sunlight/Moonlight Jadeleaf extract

*(Only thing that can cure your Feral Kubrow from -100%)

Man, now this is sheer genius! Take my +1k!

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

All the other f2p MMOs I have played have simple pet systems.

 

Dungeon Fighter Online

Rusty Hearts

Vindictus

Dragon Nest

Tera

Marvel Heroes

Guild Wars 2(Rangers only)

Fallout(Not an MMO, but close enough)

DC Universe

 

Those are great pet systems. No high maintenance bullS#&$, straight up simple stuff. AT this point, Zanuka sounds like a better pet. So much for Kubrow(mania), people are sticking to sentinels. Don't see a lot of kubrows around, if one is around, it's usually only one Kubrow that is around.

 

Sentinels is the way to go. They take care of themselves and don't force you to put aside other things to care for them like some high maintenance Diva girlfriend that wants you all to yourself and nags you to death and wants this or wants that.

 

The dev team once again fails to think things through, they dive in headfirst and make changes later.

I myself don't bother with kubrows at all - I made one for the quest, and have him locked away in stasis. I get into brutal battles that would definitely get him killed. Just my fang primes and Dread do well for me. Agreed.

Edited July 23, 2014 by -SLX-J3tAc3

[Xarteros]

Given the fact that sentinels can get something like 600 health and a Kubrow can easily rock 1800-2500 health with lifesteal whenever you use melee, I think it's perfectly fine to be higher maintenance than sentinels. They aren't better in every way, but they sure do have some advantages.

Take a look at their damage as well, Maul gives up to 330% base damage, and Bite gives 330% Crit chance and 220% crit damage. Sunika and Sahasa Kubrows can pack in an extra 120% Finisher damage too.

As soon as they take permanent death off the table, they can let us Potato and Forma our Kubrows to get a bit more mod capacity and make them something seriously tough. Currently Kubrows are a bit of a joke compared to what they could be, since they have only 30 Mod capacity (Huras and Sunika are the only ones with a natural V polarity).

If we could safely Potato and Forma our kubrows, it would be like having 4 new sentinels to choose from. There's no reason to have two of the same breed (unless you are an enthusiast and forma different builds on duplicate Kubrow) and if you don't like your Kubrow visually, you'll have the option of changing it (when they fix it and bring it back).

[anti_tank]

I think 25,000 - 50,000 is still way to much. I'm building weapons, formas, warframes, orokin reactors and catalysts all the time and it's almost impossible to keep up. What I propose is that they add in a new programme where you actually get to breed the kubrows into a more pure breed. Add males and females, and make it so that you can breed them so pure, that the DNA will eventually not deteriorate. Abviously this doesn't come Free, you'll have to keep making room by getting rid of the parents, selling them or putting them in stasis to breed later and sell the pups. And there is the cost of things to help them breed like mood elevators to get them...... In the mood. And add a food system in, to feed the mother, father and pup, but make it an easy thing to get, plenty of meat about right?

[Xarteros]

Well, as I suggested, a 5-pack of 20-25% health boosters is actually really good value. you use one a day for 5 days on 25,000 credits. Is that not reasonable? The other packs are just high cost because they heal more in one go.

If DNA integrity gets swapped with Loyalty, every time your Kubrow dies it will lose 20% DNA integrity, so active players who use their kubrow more will be earning more than enough to afford the higher-healing DNA stabilizers. If DNA integrity stays as it is, the higher packs should still be made as a higher value-for-cost, so it's cheaper in the long run to spend on the bigger kits, but you can still build the cheap smaller kits to tide your kubrow over once per day.

We already have Male and Female kubrows, so I definitely want breeding (with some simple Mendelian genetics, so you can work out what traits the puppies could have), but that's discussion for another topic. This thread is just for discussing the DNA integrity vs Loyalty and possible other alternatives.