How Lephantis Was Ruined. (Aka Giving Something Alot Of Health Doesnt Make A Fight Harder)

[Renegade343]

So you want everything to be easy even with your 5 forma boltor prime?

 

If you want it that easy go find bosses in early missions and spam those

Well, just boosting health would not do. It just takes more magazines from the 5 Forma Boltor Prime to take it down. 

 

Why not make some new mechanics to actually test skill, then reward a new item for defeating the Super Lephantis (like an Infested sniper)?

[Azawarau]

Well, just boosting health would not do. It just takes more magazines from the 5 Forma Boltor Prime to take it down. 

 

Why not make some new mechanics to actually test skill, then reward a new item for defeating the Super Lephantis (like an Infested sniper)?

He needs both

 

Ive had this discussion quite a few times with a certain forum cat on another forum who suggests a better AI for enemies and no bulking up

 

I always say it wont matter because we have the advantage of first attack and can easily sweep and multi sweep enemy waves

 

A better AI alone wont serve this boss if he cant last 4 seconds against the gun youre using

[Renegade343]

He needs both

 

Ive had this discussion quite a few times with a certain forum cat on another forum who suggests a better AI for enemies and no bulking up

 

I always say it wont matter because we have the advantage of first attack and can easily sweep and multi sweep enemy waves

 

A better AI alone wont serve this boss if he cant last 4 seconds against the gun youre using

Maybe because I wrote down the word 'just', then?

 

Of course it would need a larger health pool, but not to the point where it is basically a sponge large enough to suck up the Pacific Ocean. 

[Zeimaster]

Lephatis is Great! Stop crybabying!

 

All the bosses in this game are to easy, and Lephatis is now how a boss suppose to be!

 

Endgame bosses does not suppose to be a cake walk. In no game, are endgame bosses a cake walk.

I am happy the DE buffed, this Boss!

 

You crybaby tenno always, ask and say, "oh its to easy," but when DE buff, the way bosses suppose to be, you guys crybaby!

 

Lephatis is still to easy! I beat him 4 times today, for 11 storm so I can trade and sell it.

 

My last thing to say is the Lephatis is still to weak. Lephatis should take no affects from all warframe abilities!

 

Nuff Said!!!

 

 

I believe Lephatis needs more platforming elemets. Like when the floor falls in, there should be platforms, the size of the landing pads, you have to jump to and from them to dodge gas clouds, Lephatis scythe, and Lephatis darts. Lephatis should be in the middle, attacking the warframes on the platforms. Last the platforms should be moving around, and if you fall you should take damage.

 

ps this game is so easy, my early days of play sonic the hedgehog, streets of rage, golden axe, super mario world, crash bandicoot, and many others will put this game to shame.

 

Let me stop you right there, "You crybaby tenno always, ask and say, oh its to easy," but when DE buff, the way bosses suppose to be, you guys crybaby!" This is what you think people do, I and many others never complained about bosses bieng too easy, I for once found the Lephantis before the buff quite the challenge and now I find him an enormous waste of time that eventualy turns into a run around the arena trying to get ammo after people run out of ammo restores. 

 

One more thing: This game is not made for YOU its made for everyone, because you find things too easy does not mean everyone shares your opinion, either we find a middle ground or people are going to stop playing this game because DE only changes things a group of people like, for example this buff Bosses got seems to be fine with many self called "Veterans" but have you ever stopped and tought that there are other players who play this game beside you?

Edited July 23, 2014 by Zeimaster

[Chiwwy1]

Let me stop you right there, "You crybaby tenno always, ask and say, oh its to easy," but when DE buff, the way bosses suppose to be, you guys crybaby!" This is what you think people do, I and many others never complained about bosses bieng too easy, I for once found the Lephantis before the buff quite the challenge and now I find him an enormous waste of time that eventualy turns into a run around the arena trying to get ammo after people run out of ammo restores. 

 

One more thing: This game is not made for YOU its made for everyone, because you find things too easy does not mean everyone shares your opinion, either we find a middle ground or people are going to stop playing this game because DE only changes things a group of people like, for example this buff Bosses got seems to be fine with many self called "Veterans" but have you ever stopped and tought that there are other players who play this game beside you?

This guy wins. Don't really care what you think of me for saying that.

[Twilight053]

Are you people drunk? I find him fun.

[fatpig84]

Excuse me for saying this, but what?

 

yes a boss with an instant kill maneuver unless you have a mod that helps you get away with it.

And in this case, it is a simple Rush mod :3

[ZackNeutron]

The only thing that bothering me about Lephantis that are His taking little damage & drop not worth it at all.

Edited July 23, 2014 by ZackNeutron

[TenshuYuusha]

I regulary take 20 minutes soloing Lephie and i enjoyed myself, now it took 2 hours to defeat one myself, and only dieng once when i was not paying attention.

I can still do that myself, perhaps just make Lephantis scale with the number of players in the Squad, not their Conclave rating, tone down his damage resistance just a wee bit, but keep the healthpool the way it is. For now, Lephantis is the closest this game has to a Final Boss until DE gets some ideas... isn't there supposed to be a new solar system we can visit coming?

[LtZefar]

Lephatis is Great! Stop crybabying!

 

All the bosses in this game are to easy, and Lephatis is now how a boss suppose to be!

 

Endgame bosses does not suppose to be a cake walk. In no game, are endgame bosses a cake walk.

I am happy the DE buffed, this Boss!

 

You crybaby tenno always, ask and say, "oh its to easy," but when DE buff, the way bosses suppose to be, you guys crybaby!

 

Lephatis is still to easy! I beat him 4 times today, for 11 storm so I can trade and sell it.

 

My last thing to say is the Lephatis is still to weak. Lephatis should take no affects from all warframe abilities!

 

Nuff Said!!!

 

 

I believe Lephatis needs more platforming elemets. Like when the floor falls in, there should be platforms, the size of the landing pads, you have to jump to and from them to dodge gas clouds, Lephatis scythe, and Lephatis darts. Lephatis should be in the middle, attacking the warframes on the platforms. Last the platforms should be moving around, and if you fall you should take damage.

 

ps this game is so easy, my early days of play sonic the hedgehog, streets of rage, golden axe, super mario world, crash bandicoot, and many others will put this game to shame.

 

 

Pfffft hahahahahaha I can't believe someone likes the boss. :D

 

Also a Hard boss? No. He's slow a snail, Giant weakspots, poor weak spot system which is the most boring type of boss you can do because it's mostly waiting, being Rhino the boss still pose no threat to me and it's just an awful looking boss.

 

Giving him more health and defense or rather just 75% damage reduction to everything isn't making the boss harder. It just makes it take longer to kill.

 

What they need to do is drastically change this boss so that it's more active and not the snail paced boss fight it is now. Your idea of making him more interesting won't do much much. We have Novas that can teleport wherever they want. She can bring the entire group with her too.

[NethLX2]

The only beef I have this bosses buff is that it makes it considerably less appealing to group up. The scaling with multiple players seems to be ridiculous, especially in the case of Lephantis...

Edited July 24, 2014 by NethLX2

[Renegade343]

Contents from post #1. 

Would this be a better solution (I do need feedback on it to make it as perfect as possible so I could send it to DE(L), so I would appreciate it [and maybe take it into account if it is better])?

 

Link:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/271918-super-lephantis-rework-for-those-players-who-want-the-challenge-similar-from-the-level-80-lephantis/

[SeaUrchins]

The only thing that bothering me about Lephantis that are His taking little damage & drop not worth it at all.

 

^ that. Rewards for Lephantis run are not worth the key.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Actually, giving something more health can make it harder.

[Renegade343]

Actually, giving something more health can make it harder.

Yes, but up to a certain point, or else it would have (or be): 

 

1. So much health it could be assumed to be invulnerable. 

2. Boring. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Yes, but up to a certain point, or else it would have (or be): 

 

1. So much health it could be assumed to be invulnerable. 

2. Boring. 

The idea is that giving something more health makes ammo management more important, and it it takes more skill to go longer without making a mistake that will get you killed.

[Renegade343]

The idea is that giving something more health makes ammo management more important, and it it takes more skill to go longer without making a mistake that will get you killed.

Or why not a balance of both new mechanics to keep players on their toes and the bullet sponge (linked with damage) factor?

 

Going to extremes in this case will just harm DE(L) and the players. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Or why not a balance of both new mechanics to keep players on their toes and the bullet sponge (linked with damage) factor?

 

Going to extremes in this case will just harm DE(L) and the players. 

I have not had a chance to play it so I can't say whether they took it too far or not.  I am only challenging the stance that raising health can "never" increase difficulty.   I don't deny that it is a fine balance.

[Renegade343]

I have not had a chance to play it so I can't say whether they took it too far or not.  I am only challenging the stance that raising health can "never" increase difficulty.   I don't deny that it is a fine balance.

Raising health would increase difficulty (just take more bullets to die, meaning a larger chance of messing up), but too much and player satisfaction would decrease. Which is why I do support bringing this buffed Lephantis back, but not in a pure bullet sponge way. 

[DSpite]

 

Let me stop you right there, "You crybaby tenno always, ask and say, oh its to easy," but when DE buff, the way bosses suppose to be, you guys crybaby!" This is what you think people do, I and many others never complained about bosses bieng too easy, I for once found the Lephantis before the buff quite the challenge and now I find him an enormous waste of time that eventualy turns into a run around the arena trying to get ammo after people run out of ammo restores. 

 

One more thing: This game is not made for YOU its made for everyone, because you find things too easy does not mean everyone shares your opinion, either we find a middle ground or people are going to stop playing this game because DE only changes things a group of people like, for example this buff Bosses got seems to be fine with many self called "Veterans" but have you ever stopped and tought that there are other players who play this game beside you?

 

 

 

Has it even occurred to you that Lephantis is about as close as an "end boss" as you can possibly get in this game. I was taken into Void missions by friends I made when my weapon was (from memory) putting out under 1K DPS and I struggled. A lot. I didn't even know where I was at the time. I had to go and read up on it afterwards.

 

I fought Hay Vek for the first time when my gun was doing around 5k-6k DPS and me and my other team mates with similar guns got slaughtered, also because we did not have a full grasp of the tactics to use on that level. When I went back there with a multi Forma Boltor Prime, and other fun guns in the team, we sprayed and he died.

 

We thought, what was that? That's what scaled weapons will do.

 

Many players, when they hit Lephantis will have guns that may not even have any slots left unpolarized. Many "end game gun setups" may hit 25K-30K+ spike DPS. Lephantis at 80th level will melt. That's the point, you fight him when your frames and gear is up to par.

 

If you are going there and "it's taking 2 hours" then obviously your team builds sucks. End of story.

 

The "veterans" on this forum can probably theorycraft a team that can kill Lephantis in 10 seconds, given how many weird abilities we have that interact and amplify damages to obscene levels.

 

And yes, screw new players, as they have no right to say "we cant kill Lephantis quickly" as THEY SHOULD NOT EVEN BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. One mate had made a ton of keys and we farmed the old Lephantis. It felt VERY WRONG. If you can take on an "end boss" and be certain you can kill him to a 95% probability, with the only downside being "takes a while", then the boss is still broken, and he needs to do a ton more things that boil down to "player standing in wrong place too long = instant death", and If someone gets downed, the chances of another team mate managing to stand still long enough to "fix" the player being zero. End bosses should punish the smallest of errors, DE is making it easy for people by just giving them a longer fight, in fact HELPING new players, as it will allow them to kill an "end boss" with inferior guns.

 

... this is still a pointless argument. DE can never make anything the correct level of "hard" because it will ALWAYS annoy a bunch of people no matter what, as it will be the wrong level of "hard" for someone.

[Renegade343]

Has it even occurred to you that Lephantis is about as close as an "end boss" as you can possibly get in this game. I was taken into Void missions by friends I made when my weapon was (from memory) putting out under 1K DPS and I struggled. A lot. I didn't even know where I was at the time. I had to go and read up on it afterwards.

 

I fought Hay Vek for the first time when my gun was doing around 5k-6k DPS and me and my other team mates with similar guns got slaughtered, also because we did not have a full grasp of the tactics to use on that level. When I went back there with a multi Forma Boltor Prime, and other fun guns in the team, we sprayed and he died.

 

We thought, what was that? That's what scaled weapons will do.

 

Many players, when they hit Lephantis will have guns that may not even have any slots left unpolarized. Many "end game gun setups" may hit 25K-30K+ spike DPS. Lephantis at 80th level will melt. That's the point, you fight him when your frames and gear is up to par.

 

If you are going there and "it's taking 2 hours" then obviously your team builds sucks. End of story.

 

The "veterans" on this forum can probably theorycraft a team that can kill Lephantis in 10 seconds, given how many weird abilities we have that interact and amplify damages to obscene levels.

 

And yes, screw new players, as they have no right to say "we cant kill Lephantis quickly" as THEY SHOULD NOT EVEN BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. One mate had made a ton of keys and we farmed the old Lephantis. It felt VERY WRONG. If you can take on an "end boss" and be certain you can kill him to a 95% probability, with the only downside being "takes a while", then the boss is still broken, and he needs to do a ton more things that boil down to "player standing in wrong place too long = instant death", and If someone gets downed, the chances of another team mate managing to stand still long enough to "fix" the player being zero. End bosses should punish the smallest of errors, DE is making it easy for people by just giving them a longer fight, in fact HELPING new players, as it will allow them to kill an "end boss" with inferior guns.

 

... this is still a pointless argument. DE can never make anything the correct level of "hard" because it will ALWAYS annoy a bunch of people no matter what, as it will be the wrong level of "hard" for someone.

End game gun setup that can actually have some reliability of getting to said spike DPS is a little bit unlikely. 

 

And also, you did say about "theorycrafting a team", meaning it may not survive contact in practice. 

 

And as for making a correct level of "hard", a balance between bullet sponge, damage output and new mechanics would work quite well to bring the "hard" in Lephantis (or we could keep the normal Lephantis and have the "hard" Lephantis be an option with the ODA key). 

[ZeWing]

yeah,cant believe that why still so many people think only make the enemy more Hp and more state op =let the game funny.Maybe they alreay brainwash by koraen Junk online game or "I WANNA BE" fan?lol

 

what ever Lephanits lv80 or higher for experienc Tenno kill this sandbag only need 10second ,and no meaning with its boring action pattern -only can make him look SMART but no more-jsut like a rank15 stupid tenno.

 

Lephanits have 3 head,one head only have 2 action pattern, say its not enough for big boss

more clever AI? no・・・・・・i think it need more action pattern(but NO QTE plx)

exsample

Bayonetta Temperantia

Gear of WAR3 's last boss

Pso2 Dark falz elder

 

these boss all have FUNNY action pattern and weakpoint,not by a OP state or any super clever AI

but all with high Difficulty

 

for An action game ,Tenno 's action system conpect is too poor and out date,no JUST Guard(need a stupid mod), no counter, only no meaning's rolling ,run and use power to protect ourself,

maybe this another problem make the game play like a Mcjob in boss battle             - our action choose too less-

Edited July 24, 2014 by ZeWing

[DSpite]

1) End game gun setup that can actually have some reliability of getting to said spike DPS is a little bit unlikely. 

 

2) And also, you did say about "theorycrafting a team", meaning it may not survive contact in practice. 

 

3) And as for making a correct level of "hard", a balance between bullet sponge, damage output and new mechanics would work quite well to bring the "hard" in Lephantis (or we could keep the normal Lephantis and have the "hard" Lephantis be an option with the ODA key). 

 

1) Multiple Boltor Primes would do just fine.

 

2) The understanding is already that shoddy teams can deal with 80th Lepanthis just fine, they just "take longer". I remember when Incursions first came out in EVE Online and teams lost hundreds of billions in ships in one battle, because they did not expect an enemy that targeted and focused fire and did logistic repairs on their own ships, just like players. Lephantis is not an armada of ships, it's one mob and has a simple scripted mechanic. In order for ANY team to fail it would have to REALLY bad. by "theorycrafted" I'm implying that the team can already kill him, and that the team is simply optimized for minimum time.

 

3) You can't make any mechanics that players wont be able to send to a wiki in the form of "steps A-D to kill Lephantis". This exists in ALL games that I'm aware of (feel free to point to ones that don't) and many even have exact places to stand or exact guns/setups to use.

 

The end boss in Borderlands 2 was a total time waste *@##$ the first time. It becomes a farm-able mob with an under 5 seconds TTK with a Bee Shield and a Conference Call shotgun. He opens his mouth once and dies. Is that combo OP? Only against him, as a CC is a pretty crap gun in normal play due to "balancing", but hey, optimal use there.

 

If DE finds a way to make all combats unpredictable and interesting via dynamic scripts, they should sell those to EVE Online, cause in 10 years and 50K players paying $14 a month, and still missions are repetitive as all hell.

[DSpite]

yeah,cant believe that why still so many people think only make the enemy more Hp and more state op =let the game funny.Maybe they alreay brainwash by koraen Junk online game or "I WANNA BE" fan?lol

 

what ever Lephanits lv80 or higher for experienc Tenno kill this sandbag only need 10second ,and no meaning with its boring action pattern -only can make him look SMART but no more-jsut like a rank15 stupid tenno.

 

Lephanits have 3 head,one head only have 2 action pattern, say its not enough for big boss

more clever AI? no・・・・・・i think it need more action pattern(but NO QTE plx)

exsample

Bayonetta Temperantia

Gear of WAR3 's last boss

Pso2 Dark falz elder

 

these boss all have FUNNY action pattern and weakpoint,not by a OP state or any super clever AI

but all with high Difficulty

 

for An action game ,Tenno 's action system conpect is too poor and out date,no JUST Guard(need a stupid mod), no counter, only no meaning's rolling ,run and use power to protect ourself,

maybe this another problem make the game play like a Mcjob in boss battle             - our action choose too less-

 

 

All those examples are based on guns and abilities that are pre-set, and the entire fight is staged. Every time it's played, it will more or less always follow a linear path, and all recordings of it will look pretty much the same.

 

It's not "high difficulty" unless you are implying that developing correct muscle memory is "high difficulty". You will find higher difficulty in games that require an entire team to act together, as that level of coordination is a lot trickier, and then only really in pvp, against a thinking enemy.

[Renegade343]

If DE finds a way to make all combats unpredictable and interesting via dynamic scripts, they should sell those to EVE Online, cause in 10 years and 50K players paying $14 a month, and still missions are repetitive as all hell.

Set attacks that play at random intervals that would actually make the players be more aware of the surroundings. Best compromise between time spent for DE(L) and general player satisfaction.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Renegade343