[Re: Ui] I Wonder...

[Kappatalist]

If anyone in charge really acknowledges the glaring problems at the core of this new UI when you hold it up to the previous iteration.

 

Yes, they're fixing... or "fixing" problems with it in every hotfix thus far, which is admirable, but there's a certain futility to trying to improve something which, at its peak, and barring radical change, will still never trump its predecessor.

 

inb4 Tulz?

 

EDIT to add "what could have been" to the OP

Mockup, made with the utmost of laziness.  Enjoy.  Also, pretend the starmap itself isn't a POS in this picture - I'm not good enough to modify that thing in GIMP.  Additionally pretend that all the text is actually readable, because they manage to make it that small.  Again, blame GIMP.

Ya see, if you want to stand up all RP-like and walk around, you can do that.  But most players will want everything at their fingertips, and tbh nothing did that better than the old UI.  This is just the best of both worlds.

 

Edited July 23, 2014 by Kappatalist

[vaugahn]

And what would these "glaring problems" be? The new UI is easily fixable.

[Nachoguy5]

Plenty of issues with the new UI.

Bulkier frames covering half the menus

Wiggle waggle menus making it hard to focus on what the hell you're doing

Splitting the Mods menu into 4 separate menus (Seriously, what the hell?)

Mods not immediately on the line in the middle disappear for no reason so you keep having to scroll up and down to double check and look for whatever you could find in 5 seconds if you could actually see all your damn mods

[Dtexas]

I personally think the only issue is the way its angled for some of the areas, especially when modding stuff. Maybe its just my resolution, but when modding something the mod names and pictures are kind of blurry due to the angle the new ui is on.

 

Id prefer if there was an option to have it angled or not, or at least have the camera zoom in more on the screens overall.

[xRastaban]

If anyone in charge really acknowledges the glaring problems at the core of this new UI when you hold it up to the previous iteration.

 

Yes, they're fixing... or "fixing" problems with it in every hotfix thus far, which is admirable, but there's a certain futility to trying to improve something which, at its peak, and barring radical change, will still never trump its predecessor.

 

inb4 Tulz?

 

I think it's amazing and I like it a lot better than its predecessor, personally. Some things are harder to find but hopefully they'll fix it.

[Kappatalist]

And what would these "glaring problems" be? The new UI is easily fixable.

Everything takes longer to do, for one - be it walking around, or more keystrokes, or confusion, or whatever.

All the movement and slant on UI elements will ALWAYS make this UI less readable than a flat UI, which we had.

Why did they find the need to try to change the Foundry again?  Did we not learn from last time that they had nailed it from Day 1?

The Star Chart... uh, Radial, Solar- Planetary... thing is approximately 78% less intuitive than the branching starchart we used to have, and also gives next to no visual feedback or at-a-glance support.  not to mention nothing is connected anymore.  I've seen so many threads from confused noobs re: this, which is a telltale sign of "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG".

 

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EDIT:

Add these on too.

Plenty of issues with the new UI.

Bulkier frames covering half the menus

Wiggle waggle menus making it hard to focus on what the hell you're doing

Splitting the Mods menu into 4 separate menus (Seriously, what the hell?)

Mods not immediately on the line in the middle disappear for no reason so you keep having to scroll up and down to double check and look for whatever you could find in 5 seconds if you could actually see all your damn mods

 

EDIT 2 (Electric Amendaloo): I don't doubt it can be fixed - however the amount of work necessary to dig themselves out of the UI chasm they've wrought would be a bit big, short of rolling back the whole UI, which they won't do.  In a perfect world (SERIOUSLY NO PUN INTENDED YO) we would have a fusion of the old UI with the styling of the new UI, which, don't get me wrong, is slick and consistent.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Kappatalist

[vaugahn]

Everything takes longer to do, for one - be it walking around, or more keystrokes, or confusion, or whatever.

All the movement and slant on UI elements will ALWAYS make this UI less readable than a flat UI, which we had.

Why did they find the need to try to change the Foundry again?  Did we not learn from last time that they had nailed it from Day 1?

The Star Chart... uh, Radial, Solar- Planetary... thing is approximately 78% less intuitive than the branching starchart we used to have, and also gives next to no visual feedback or at-a-glance support.  not to mention nothing is connected anymore.  I've seen so many threads from confused noobs re: this, which is a telltale sign of "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG".

 

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I wouldn't call those core issues, all of them are easily fixable. A toggle for the tilted menus, labels on the planet wheel thingy, node connections and clarified node graphics. Not to mention the new foundry is arguably better than the last one, it has more items per page and removed that useless resource scroll bar.

 

I'd wait a few weeks before passing judgement. 

Edited July 23, 2014 by vaugahn

[Kappatalist]

I wouldn't call those core issues, all of them are easily fixable. A toggle for the tilted menus, labels on the planet wheel thingy, node connections and clarified node graphics. Not to mention the new foundry is arguably better than the last one, it has more items per page and removed that useless resource scroll bar.

 

I'd wait a few weeks before passing judgement. 

Tilt Toggle: acceptable solution.  Agreed.

Labels, Connections, Graffix: as long as we get moar Starchart, so where's the work in that?

Foundry: here's where I cannot agree.  The 2x3 layout, being so massive, forces a whole hell of a lot of eye movement.  It gets annoying and painful to look at, especially being BRIGHT WHITE and all.  And you have got to be joking if you think that a hidden resources menu which is not viewable alongside the Foundry is a good thing to have.  It offers 0 at-a-glance-ness, and I don't care how cool it looks.

 

(EDIT: More items on screen is fine, but 2x3 is NOT the way to do it.  If we had an old-style Foundry with, say, 1x5 or 1x6, with a materials bar, that'd be the bee's knees.  The required mats for each item do that grid sh!t too - it's like eye-strain inside of eye-strain.  Nothing flows in this thing, really.)

 

I'm definitely going to give it time, but NOT to "get used to it" as so many W.Knights like to say.  I'm interested in how they intend to mend this sad, sad, broken thing.  Function>Form.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Kappatalist

[vaugahn]

Tilt Toggle: acceptable solution.  Agreed.

Labels, Connections, Graffix: as long as we get moar Starchart, so where's the work in that?

Foundry: here's where I cannot agree.  The 2x3 layout, being so massive, forces a whole hell of a lot of eye movement.  It gets annoying and painful to look at, especially being BRIGHT WHITE and all.  And you have got to be joking if you think that a hidden resources menu which is not viewable alongside the Foundry is a good thing to have.  It offers 0 at-a-glance-ness, and I don't care how cool it looks.

 

I'm definitely going to give it time, but NOT to "get used to it" as so many W.Knights like to say.  I'm interested in how they intend to mend this sad, sad, broken thing.  Function>Form.

 

"Get used to it" is almost always a troll response. There's no reason to get used to broken features.

 

For the star chart problems, check out this guy's mock-up:

 

That's closer to what we need for the node level of the starchart...definite progression between levels. As for the foundry thing, that all comes down to personal preference (I never used the resource scroll, it's much more convenient IMO having the resources in the tile) and so for that reason they should give an option to change it from 2-wide to 1-wide or just have the entire thing narrowed together and remove some of that dead space on the tiles. There's definitely work required, but I think this UI has more potential than our last one.

 

Edit: here's the thread that screen's from, plenty of other good stuff there https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/266471-some-u14-ui-suggestions-with-screens/

Edited July 23, 2014 by vaugahn

[Kappatalist]

"Get used to it" is almost always a troll response. There's no reason to get used to broken features.

 

For the star chart problems, check out this guy's mock-up:

 

That's closer to what we need for the node level of the starchart...definite progression between levels. As for the foundry thing, that all comes down to personal preference (I never used the resource scroll, it's much more convenient IMO having the resources in the tile) and so for that reason they should give an option to change it from 2-wide to 1-wide or just have the entire thing narrowed together and remove some of that dead space on the tiles. There's definitely work required, but I think this UI has more potential than our last one.

 

Edit: here's the thread that screen's from, plenty of other good stuff there https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/266471-some-u14-ui-suggestions-with-screens/

That is a nice mockup indeed, and it's good to see people on the right track... sorta, but there's something missing... connections from planet to planet.  If it had that, gg, we winner.  Now here's the problem with having this circle menu to begin with - it only presents one possible logical progression system, and that's linear.  Our old system branched out and gave us tons of options.  Are we just going back in time at this point to the days when giving the player almost no options was acceptable?

 

EDIT: Checked that thread, and I'm especially liking that mockup of the Esc menu, but there's again one problem - why is one-screen accessability locked behind a keystroketo begin with?

Edited July 23, 2014 by Kappatalist

[vaugahn]

That is a nice mockup indeed, and it's good to see people on the right track... sorta, but there's something missing... connections from planet to planet.  If it had that, gg, we winner.  Now here's the problem with having this circle menu to begin with - it only presents one possible logical progression system, and that's linear.  Our old system branched out and gave us tons of options.  Are we just going back in time at this point to the days when giving the player almost no options was acceptable?

 

Well unfortunately it looks like that's the way we're going. With the way planets unlock now it probably makes more sense for noobs to have a linear progression. Let's be honest though, the branching of the old map was barely relevant once you had places on each planet unlocked and just used the starmap. It would be nice to see them make the map more interactive with the ship, maybe let you "fly" it from place to place through the solar rails to make up for that lack of options. 

[Kappatalist]

Mockup, made with the utmost of laziness.  Enjoy.  Also, pretend the starmap itself isn't a POS in this picture - I'm not good enough to modify that thing in GIMP.  Additionally pretend that all the text is actually readable, because they manage to make it that small.  Again, blame GIMP.

Ya see, if you want to stand up all RP-like and walk around, you can do that.  But most players will want everything at their fingertips, and tbh nothing did that better than the old UI.  This is just the best of both worlds.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Kappatalist

[vaugahn]

Just add in an option to appear at that screen on login and post-mission and it would essentially be the old UI with a ship behind it.

 

I may be in the minority here, but personally I don't hate the planet-ring. It's the new node menu that really bothers me.

[Kappatalist]

Just add in an option to appear at that screen on login and post-mission and it would essentially be the old UI with a ship behind it.

I didn't even think of that, but yes.  YES.  VERY YES.  mbison.mpg.

 

I may be in the minority here, but personally I don't hate the planet-ring. It's the new node menu that really bothers me.

The ring is alright, I suppose.  You know what'd be nice?  You have the ring, and when you click on a planet, the solar node cluster materializes in front of you, prepanned to your planet of choice, or some such thing.  When you pan to another planet, the ring visibly rotates to the planet you're looking at.  Would be a lot less jarring than before, when panning to another planet would just interpolate the camera quickly to the new planet.  Here, everything's just on a carousel.

[vaugahn]

I didn't even think of that, but yes.  YES.  VERY YES.  mbison.mpg.

 

The ring is alright, I suppose.  You know what'd be nice?  You have the ring, and when you click on a planet, the solar node cluster materializes in front of you, prepanned to your planet of choice, or some such thing.  When you pan to another planet, the ring visibly rotates to the planet you're looking at.  Would be a lot less jarring than before, when panning to another planet would just interpolate the camera quickly to the new planet.  Here, everything's just on a carousel.

 

That, pretty much. The node map was more compelling because it felt like a tactical map or something, and the spinny ring is nice because it matches the theme of the ship and is slightly faster than the spread-out starmap. A combination of the two would be best in my opinion.

 

I have this vision in my head of something like the linked nodes of the old system, but mapped to the surfaces of the planets. That would be awesome, I don't even care if like half the missions would be hidden on the far side of the planet D:

[Kappatalist]

That, pretty much. The node map was more compelling because it felt like a tactical map or something, and the spinny ring is nice because it matches the theme of the ship and is slightly faster than the spread-out starmap. A combination of the two would be best in my opinion.

 

I have this vision in my head of something like the linked nodes of the old system, but mapped to the surfaces of the planets. That would be awesome, I don't even care if like half the missions would be hidden on the far side of the planet D:

Okay.  I'll be honest, that would be quite quite badass.  But we both know how inconvenient it would get XD  Additionally, a lot of missions aren't actually planetside, but rather on ships in planetary orbit/space.  I feel like we're getting somewhere though.  #DEReadThis

[vaugahn]

Okay.  I'll be honest, that would be quite quite badass.  But we both know how inconvenient it would get XD  Additionally, a lot of missions aren't actually planetside, but rather on ships in planetary orbit/space.  I feel like we're getting somewhere though.  #DEReadThis

 

Well my art skills are extremely lacking, but I picture planetside missions being mapped to the surface of the planet and space missions being elevated off the surface...basically, have every mission have an actual place relative to the planet it's on. But yeah that would be hilariously impractical. 

 

I've noticed the best way to make progress on discussing UI fixes is keeping calm, avoiding that knee-jerk reaction, and figuring out exactly which elements need fixing. Hopefully someone upstairs sees this thread D:

[Kappatalist]

Well my art skills are extremely lacking, but I picture planetside missions being mapped to the surface of the planet and space missions being elevated off the surface...basically, have every mission have an actual place relative to the planet it's on. But yeah that would be hilariously impractical. 

 

I've noticed the best way to make progress on discussing UI fixes is keeping calm, avoiding that knee-jerk reaction, and figuring out exactly which elements need fixing. Hopefully someone upstairs sees this thread D:

All we can do for now: don't stop posting.

[vaugahn]

All we can do for now: don't stop posting.

 

BLAH BLAH BLAH POST

 

Another fix I just thought of: when you use the ESC menu now, it teleports you to the station, and when you're done using that station you have to walk all the way back to wherever you were before. Why not make it so when accessing a station from the ESC menu it keeps you in the same place?

[Kappatalist]

BLAH BLAH BLAH POST

 

Another fix I just thought of: when you use the ESC menu now, it teleports you to the station, and when you're done using that station you have to walk all the way back to wherever you were before. Why not make it so when accessing a station from the ESC menu it keeps you in the same place?

In my mind it works like this: you know the multiscreen tutorial dioramas?  How they pan from screen to screen?  When you click to go to, say, your Foundry, your camera would pan quickly through your ship to the Foundry, with the top bar intact (note that UI elements like Foundry, while still diegetic in nature, will be flat and not pan around) so you could jump (pan, rather) to any other part on demand.  Navigation would have its own button, and also be the base screen you start on.

[vaugahn]

In my mind it works like this: you know the multiscreen tutorial dioramas?  How they pan from screen to screen?  When you click to go to, say, your Foundry, your camera would pan quickly through your ship to the Foundry, with the top bar intact (note that UI elements like Foundry, while still diegetic in nature, will be flat and not pan around) so you could jump (pan, rather) to any other part on demand.  Navigation would have its own button, and also be the base screen you start on.

 

That would actually be really nice. It seems like instead of a drastic overhaul it really just needs a lot of quality-of-life changes, which are sadly often hard to identify.

 

Another thing that's missing for some reason, an in-ship console for the inventory. Why that was not included I have no idea.

[Kappatalist]

That would actually be really nice. It seems like instead of a drastic overhaul it really just needs a lot of quality-of-life changes, which are sadly often hard to identify.

 

Another thing that's missing for some reason, an in-ship console for the inventory. Why that was not included I have no idea.

They made it look cool, now they need to make it usable.  And +1 on noting the lack of a Ship-ventory.  Also missing Friends and Clan, and no, clicking the Dojo to get to Clan doesn't count - that was a quick fix.

[vaugahn]

They made it look cool, now they need to make it usable.  And +1 on noting the lack of a Ship-ventory.  Also missing Friends and Clan, and no, clicking the Dojo to get to Clan doesn't count - that was a quick fix.

 

Which is weird because we have a news console, which is something that didn't even need its own console at all.

 

We know DE can make a functional UI, and we know they can make a good looking one...now they just need to put the two together

[Khranitel]

Don't hold your breath, OP.

 

This is a difference in direction, you are thinking ease of use is king, where to us immersion is king. You could certainly make the argument that the foundry information could be easier to read as an excel sheet, but it's not what we are going for.

So, apparently, we're stuck with nausea-causing menus, where we can have 2,5 rows of visible mods (instead of previous 5) half-covered by our frame, and with white-on-white fonts everywhere. Immersive as hell.

[vaugahn]

These are the spots where Clan and Friends should be put, at least until a more permanent solution is found.

 

 

This ship would offer better options for having stuff on consoles, though it doesn't look nearly as nice...perhaps additional models of ship for us to use in the future?