[Kubrow] Why Should You Use Kubrow Over A Sentinel?

[Liminal]

Not right it now it can't.

 

/burn

Yeah I know but it's surely a bug :P

 

Room full of heavies, likely using AoE's.

 

Sentinel.

 

Uh...

You can still play it smart. You have powers, cover, and you can make them move into a choke point.

[Zeitzbach]

Room full of heavies, likely using AoE's.

 

Sentinel.

 

Uh...

 

Void Survival : barely has any AoE beside the Grenade though

.

Grineer Survival, bombard and napalm are to worry. They also gut kubrows anyway. At least sentinels don't eat Heavy gunner bullets to make them die faster.

 

Corpus Survival : not much AoE either. Shockwave Moa is easily avoided (and your sentinel is floated). Railguns are pretty meh too.

 

Infected Survival : Volatile is bugged and is the only reason Sentinels really die atm. When it gets fixed, my Sentinel will finally stop losing health from miles away.

[DirtyIrishman]

Kubrow don't really need a buff, I think with proper mods and having them at rank 30 and potatoe'd they are just find strength wise. Where they lack is diversity, as I mentioned in a previous post the way they are built the mod setup is pretty much cookie cutter and doesn't support future diversity with new mods being added in. What they really need to tweak are the downsides, because for most of us the downsides outweigh the benefits of having them tag along. I can take my Sentinel with me on any mission without having to consider the consequences of that, which makes it useful no matter what I am doing. When you take your Kubrow you have to consider a lot of different things before you decide if it's worth the risk taking him out, that makes him lackluster at best, if not useless.

[Nitresco]

This has just devolved into idle passive aggressive banter rather than anyone offering solutions to fix a decent new mechanic to the game. How pitiful.

We are currently discussing the efficacy of the current system in various situations.

 

Funny how you come in here on your high horse and act like we're being useless when your own input is doing exactly squat. Goodbye.

[AfroGamerNinja]

...guess I'll just stick with my Shade.

[Nitresco]

Void Survival : barely has any AoE beside the Grenade though

.

Grineer Survival, bombard and napalm are to worry. They also gut kubrows anyway. At least sentinels don't eat Heavy gunner bullets to make them die faster.

 

Corpus Survival : not much AoE either. Shockwave Moa is easily avoided (and your sentinel is floated). Railguns are pretty meh too.

 

Infected Survival : Volatile is bugged and is the only reason Sentinels really die atm. When it gets fixed, my Sentinel will finally stop losing health from miles away.

Sentinels excel in half these situations. Kubrows excel in the other. I don't see the problem.

[Kestral9999]

Kubrow don't really need a buff, I think with proper mods and having them at rank 30 and potatoe'd they are just find strength wise. Where they lack is diversity, as I mentioned in a previous post the way they are built the mod setup is pretty much cookie cutter and doesn't support future diversity with new mods being added in. What they really need to tweak are the downsides, because for most of us the downsides outweigh the benefits of having them tag along. I can take my Sentinel with me on any mission without having to consider the consequences of that, which makes it useful no matter what I am doing. When you take your Kubrow you have to consider a lot of different things before you decide if it's worth the risk taking him out, that makes him lackluster at best, if not useless.

I honestly am somewhat speaking out of turn, I no longer play on PC and am instead a PS4 player now, so I haven't even used a Kubrow yet. I'm just going off of what has been said in this thread and it seems like the drawbacks heavily outweigh the benefits, which is unfortunate since the Kubrows were so heavily hyped and they take so much more effort to maintain than a Sentinel. Something definitely needs to change with them.

[RahuHordika]

This has just devolved into idle passive aggressive banter rather than anyone offering solutions to fix a decent new mechanic to the game. How pitiful.

They way I've seen it forums have always been like this whenever a new feature is introduced.

Poster1: OMG this feature sucks! Use something else/Go back!

Poster2: Not really, it has it's uses.

Poster 1:The feature I like is way better, ignore the feature I don't like completely and accept I say this sucks you stupid moron!

And so on comes a bickering back and forth. Besides to be honest the opening post and title of the thread are not very helpful when it comes to attracting constructive feedback, much less being constructive on thier own.

That being said a few individuals aside it's good to know there are some people on their senses who try to argue this calmly and want to make the Kubrows better rather than just keep saying 'Sentinels are better' and going nowhere.

Edited July 23, 2014 by RahuStalker

[Kestral9999]

They way I've seen it forums have always been like this whenever a new feature is introduced.

Poster1: OMG this feature sucks! Use something else/Go back!

Poster2: Not really, it has it's uses.

Poster 1:The feature I like is way better, ignore the feature I don't like completely and accept I say this sucks you stupid moron!

And so on comes a bickering back and forth. Besides to be honest the opening post and title of the thread are not very helpful when it comes to attracting constructive feedback, much less being constructive on thier own.

That being said a few individuals aside it's good to know there are some people on their senses who try to argue this calmly and want to make the Kubrows better rather than just keep saying 'Sentinels are better' and going nowhere.

Didn't have the energy to type all that at the time (Since I'm slacking off at work lol) but those are pretty much my thoughts exactly. I wasn't necessarily demonizing anyone in particular, I just felt like the community is usually a little better at keeping conversations constructive rather than multiple pages of exactly what you were referencing. 

 

And Nitresco, I can be disappointed when a subject gets derailed. You don't need to patronize me as if I personally offended you.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Kestral9999

[DirtyIrishman]

I honestly am somewhat speaking out of turn, I no longer play on PC and am instead a PS4 player now, so I haven't even used a Kubrow yet. I'm just going off of what has been said in this thread and it seems like the drawbacks heavily outweigh the benefits, which is unfortunate since the Kubrows were so heavily hyped and they take so much more effort to maintain than a Sentinel. Something definitely needs to change with them.

The only thing the Kubrow really have going for them is that they supposedly do more damage than a Sentinel does. The problem with this is they tend to only attack one target at a time and they do so rather slowly from what I've seen. The AI also tends to register them as a much bigger threat than your Sentinel shooting at them does so enemies will quickly switch targets (even off of you sometimes) to attack your Kubrow.

 

*If your sentinel dies it does not lose anything, if you die and revive your sentinel will also come back.

*If your Kubrow dies it loses Loyalty, if you die and revive your Kubrow does not come back.

 

*Sentinels cost about 115,000 credits to make and require no upkeep.

*Kubrow require farming Earth repeatedly for an egg, then cost 100,000 to make plus an additional 100,000 credits roughly one to two weeks for upkeep.

 

*Sentinels require 24 hours to make.

*Kubrow require the construction of the incubator power core (8 hours), incubating the egg (48 hours), and then reaching maturity (24-48 hours) for a total of around 104 hours to make.

 

*Most enemies will not directly attack your sentinel making them easier to keep alive as they stay by your side.

*Kubrow have a higher threat priority than even the player it seems (may be a bug) so enemies will sometimes go out of their way to attack the Kubrow. In addition a Kubrow can run off on its own and has no map marker, so if it dies you may not be able to find it to revive it.

 

*Sentinels have no loyalty, they always do maximum possible damage regardless of how many times they have died in a fight.

*Kubrows damage will degrade each time they die and can only recover from this 1.5 times a day.

 

*Sentinels have a wider range of utility they can offer, even beyond the sentinel specific abilities. For example putting up a shield while reviving allies, or slowing enemies who get within melee range of you.

*Kubrow are limited only to their two breed specific abilities (many of which mirror the Sentinel powers) and the one non-breed specific ability to have a chance to open a locked locker.

 

*You can switch between your different Sentinels freely between missions, this allows for wider versatility as you can bring your Carrier to one map, then your Wyrm to the next.

*It requires three hours to switch between your Kubrow, making it difficult (or impossible) to take advantage of the different breeds when tackling different mission types.

 

*You can custom tailor the appearance (color, shape) however you want for your Sentinel.

*Body shape, fur color, and pattern are all determined randomly and the chances of getting what you actually want are very slim. Most common variety appears to be plain white.

 

*Sentinels look like tamagotchi.

*Kubrow act like tamagotchi.

 

This is all I can think of off the top of my head.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Severanth

[Zeitzbach]

Sentinels excel in half these situations. Kubrows excel in the other. I don't see the problem.

 

Where exactly? Sentinels can be used in all of them and perform well, especially the carrier with its huge amount of utility.

 

Shield recharge (guardian) is great everywhere.

Coolant Leak helps with infected and any melee grineer.

Vacuum is awesome because you can focus on fighting instead of looting.

 

My current Kubrow can't even do anything beside useless digging (that I barely get to use) and maybe that locker picking (which isn't that great). Its finisher takes too long to finish. THe enemy could empty a whole clip on kubrow as it tries to kill the enemy. It's very risky when that happens and I am forced to clear the whole room asap because my Kubrow health was being depleted, bringing me out of my cover.

 

The damage is awesome but as usual, it's melee and when enemies are above lv 40, you don't really want to go out and melee without protection.

 

When Kubrow first came out, I thought it was going to be awesome, I thought i will finally have a loot slave to go along with my Nekky while Carriers eat all the stuffs. Why can't we just bring both of them out anyway? It sucks that you're limited to either Sentinel or Kubrow. Having to choose between extremely useful one to an annoying one really killed any interest I have for Kubrow.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Zeitzbach

[TheErebus.]

The only thing the Kubrow really have going for them is that they supposedly do more damage than a Sentinel does. The problem with this is they tend to only attack one target at a time and they do so rather slowly from what I've seen. The AI also tends to register them as a much bigger threat than your Sentinel shooting at them does so enemies will quickly switch targets (even off of you sometimes) to attack your Kubrow.

 

*If your sentinel dies it does not lose anything, if you die and revive your sentinel will also come back.  Only once. Then it's gone for the missions

*If your Kubrow dies it loses Loyalty, if you die and revive your Kubrow does not come back. Then don't let it die. Kubrows are not sentinels, you need to protect them, as much as a sentinel protect you.

 

*Sentinels cost about 115,000 credits to make and require no upkeep. Ok.

*Kubrow require farming Earth repeatedly for an egg, then cost 100,000 to make plus an additional 100,000 credits roughly one to two weeks for upkeep. 100,000 for an entire week! *gasp*. It's not that much, go do a sechura run 5 times for 5 wave sonly and you can get it.

 

*Most enemies will not directly attack your sentinel making them easier to keep alive as they stay by your side. Fair point.

*Kubrow have a higher threat priority than even the player it seems (may be a bug) so enemies will sometimes go out of their way to attack the Kubrow. In addition a Kubrow can run off on its own and has no map marker, so if it dies you may not be able to find it to revive it. Kubrows tend to stay near to you, I don't know where you got aht one frome, also because if a kubrow is going straight to an enemy that enemy WILL target the creature coming towards it. It's basic logic.

 

*Sentinels have no loyalty, they always do maximum possible damage regardless of how many times they have died in a fight. 

*Kubrows damage will degrade each time they die and can only recover from this 1.5 times a day. Go back to my 1st point.

 

*Sentinels have a wider range of utility they can offer, even beyond the sentinel specific abilities. For example putting up a shield while reviving allies, or slowing enemies who get within melee range of you. Fair ppoint.

*Kubrow are limited only to their two breed specific abilities (many of which mirror the Sentinel powers) and the one non-breed specific ability to have a chance to open a locked locker.  Oh yes, of course. You know the exact same thing happened to the sentinels long ago when they were placed in.

 

*You can switch between your different Sentinels freely between missions, this allows for wider versatility as you can bring your Carrier to one map, then your Wyrm to the next. Ok.

*It requires three hours to switch between your Kubrow, making it difficult (or impossible) to take advantage of the different breeds when tackling different mission types. You seem to keep on thinking kubrows need to do everything a sentinel does. Which in turn, makes your tenno not need to do anything (i.e carrier). 

 

*You can custom tailor the appearance (color, shape) however you want for your Sentinel.

*Body shape, fur color, and pattern are all determined randomly and the chances of getting what you actually want are very slim. Most common variety appears to be plain white. Check the scrambler and how it's gone. DE is changing it.

 

*Sentinels look like tamagotchi.

*Kubrow act like tamagotchi.

These two points are pure garbage that don't have any reason to be there.

If you wanted to be more specific, then be more specific.

This is all I can think of off the top of my head.

[EelPlus]

I believe part of their design purpose was to give players something to do outside of missions.

[HansDecatur]

Plus, you can make imprints which allow you to immediately create the exact same one so you never really lose them.

 

talk about immediately with a 48h timer to breed and another 48h to mature :-D not considering the egg farm

[Kestral9999]

The only thing the Kubrow really have going for them is that they supposedly do more damage than a Sentinel does. The problem with this is they tend to only attack one target at a time and they do so rather slowly from what I've seen. The AI also tends to register them as a much bigger threat than your Sentinel shooting at them does so enemies will quickly switch targets (even off of you sometimes) to attack your Kubrow.

 

*If your sentinel dies it does not lose anything, if you die and revive your sentinel will also come back.

*If your Kubrow dies it loses Loyalty, if you die and revive your Kubrow does not come back.

 

*Sentinels cost about 115,000 credits to make and require no upkeep.

*Kubrow require farming Earth repeatedly for an egg, then cost 100,000 to make plus an additional 100,000 credits roughly one to two weeks for upkeep.

 

*Sentinels require 24 hours to make.

*Kubrow require the construction of the incubator power core (8 hours), incubating the egg (48 hours), and then reaching maturity (24-48 hours) for a total of around 104 hours to make.

 

*Most enemies will not directly attack your sentinel making them easier to keep alive as they stay by your side.

*Kubrow have a higher threat priority than even the player it seems (may be a bug) so enemies will sometimes go out of their way to attack the Kubrow. In addition a Kubrow can run off on its own and has no map marker, so if it dies you may not be able to find it to revive it.

 

*Sentinels have no loyalty, they always do maximum possible damage regardless of how many times they have died in a fight.

*Kubrows damage will degrade each time they die and can only recover from this 1.5 times a day.

 

*Sentinels have a wider range of utility they can offer, even beyond the sentinel specific abilities. For example putting up a shield while reviving allies, or slowing enemies who get within melee range of you.

*Kubrow are limited only to their two breed specific abilities (many of which mirror the Sentinel powers) and the one non-breed specific ability to have a chance to open a locked locker.

 

*You can switch between your different Sentinels freely between missions, this allows for wider versatility as you can bring your Carrier to one map, then your Wyrm to the next.

*It requires three hours to switch between your Kubrow, making it difficult (or impossible) to take advantage of the different breeds when tackling different mission types.

 

*You can custom tailor the appearance (color, shape) however you want for your Sentinel.

*Body shape, fur color, and pattern are all determined randomly and the chances of getting what you actually want are very slim. Most common variety appears to be plain white.

 

*Sentinels look like tamagotchi.

*Kubrow act like tamagotchi.

 

This is all I can think of off the top of my head.

Gotcha, well obviously much needs to be changed since they are so much more maintenance than Sentinels. I guess that is the sacrifice you make for an organic companion though... 

[Marnus]

Excuse me, but what is the point of taking in mission a thing that will NEED attention?

Personally in high Survival I have already enough thing to think about (teammates, enemy, etc...) whitout needing to watch a furry ball every second to be sure he is okay.

 

I I won't talk about the stupidity of the Kubrow AI ATM (try use them in void, with lasers... "here I stay right in the middle of it, after all, it just killing me, right?").

Beside all of this for DAMAGE? You should think in term of DPS instead. And by seeing the time needed for the kubrow (between the need to move and the length of the animation), their DPS isk to stay low, whatever damage they do.

 

And don't launch me of the cost...

 

Mine get to the grinder/release/anything ASAP to make place to other with eventually more rare (and trade-able) traits

Edited July 23, 2014 by Marnus

[DirtyIrishman]

 

The only thing the Kubrow really have going for them is that they supposedly do more damage than a Sentinel does. The problem with this is they tend to only attack one target at a time and they do so rather slowly from what I've seen. The AI also tends to register them as a much bigger threat than your Sentinel shooting at them does so enemies will quickly switch targets (even off of you sometimes) to attack your Kubrow.

 

*If your sentinel dies it does not lose anything, if you die and revive your sentinel will also come back.  Only once. Then it's gone for the missions

Note: Incorrect. If my Sentinel dies, it will revive itself only once. If I die (as in bleed out completely) and then use a Revive my Sentinel comes back with me no matter if it already revived itself that run.

*If your Kubrow dies it loses Loyalty, if you die and revive your Kubrow does not come back. Then don't let it die. Kubrows are not sentinels, you need to protect them, as much as a sentinel protect you.

Note: "Then don't let it die" is not a valid argument, ignoring this point.

 

*Sentinels cost about 115,000 credits to make and require no upkeep. Ok.

*Kubrow require farming Earth repeatedly for an egg, then cost 100,000 to make plus an additional 100,000 credits roughly one to two weeks for upkeep. 100,000 for an entire week! *gasp*. It's not that much, go do a sechura run 5 times for 5 wave sonly and you can get it.

Note: Why should I have to when I don't need to do that for my Sentinel?

 

*Most enemies will not directly attack your sentinel making them easier to keep alive as they stay by your side. Fair point.

*Kubrow have a higher threat priority than even the player it seems (may be a bug) so enemies will sometimes go out of their way to attack the Kubrow. In addition a Kubrow can run off on its own and has no map marker, so if it dies you may not be able to find it to revive it. Kubrows tend to stay near to you, I don't know where you got aht one frome, also because if a kubrow is going straight to an enemy that enemy WILL target the creature coming towards it. It's basic logic.

Note: Kubrows chain attack, if your Kubrow runs into a room and kills something it will immediately move onto the next nearest thing if it is attacking. This can cause your Kubrow to run off quite a bit from you.

 

*Sentinels have no loyalty, they always do maximum possible damage regardless of how many times they have died in a fight. 

*Kubrows damage will degrade each time they die and can only recover from this 1.5 times a day. Go back to my 1st point.

 

*Sentinels have a wider range of utility they can offer, even beyond the sentinel specific abilities. For example putting up a shield while reviving allies, or slowing enemies who get within melee range of you. Fair ppoint.

*Kubrow are limited only to their two breed specific abilities (many of which mirror the Sentinel powers) and the one non-breed specific ability to have a chance to open a locked locker.  Oh yes, of course. You know the exact same thing happened to the sentinels long ago when they were placed in.

Note: Sentinels already went through this growing pain, so Kubrow should not have had to as well.

 

*You can switch between your different Sentinels freely between missions, this allows for wider versatility as you can bring your Carrier to one map, then your Wyrm to the next. Ok.

*It requires three hours to switch between your Kubrow, making it difficult (or impossible) to take advantage of the different breeds when tackling different mission types. You seem to keep on thinking kubrows need to do everything a sentinel does. Which in turn, makes your tenno not need to do anything (i.e carrier). 

Note: Your argument isn't valid to the point being made here, so I'm going to disregard it.

 

*You can custom tailor the appearance (color, shape) however you want for your Sentinel.

*Body shape, fur color, and pattern are all determined randomly and the chances of getting what you actually want are very slim. Most common variety appears to be plain white. Check the scrambler and how it's gone. DE is changing it.

Note: This doesn't change the fact that what you get at the point of creation is still totally random and more often than not nothing like what you wanted.

 

*Sentinels look like tamagotchi.

*Kubrow act like tamagotchi.

These two points are pure garbage that don't have any reason to be there.

If you wanted to be more specific, then be more specific.

This is all I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[TheErebus.]

That was my last post as there is nothing else to say.

It's obvcious from the start that this thread was gonna become like this anyway.

 

I end it with saying:

If you want to stick with sentinels: Fine. Do it.

If you want to stick with your kubrow: Fine, do it.

 

Making these threads only instigate what you all see right before you.

[Kestral9999]

I entirely agree. Though there definitely is a need for some Kubrow feedback threads, since they should be on par with Sentinels and not heavily disadvantaged. This one was one sided from the beginning, I've no idea why I thought there would be room for legitimate debate and constructive content.

[DirtyIrishman]

You can't tell people not to compare the Kubrow to the Sentinel when we are forced to pick between using one or the other. If we have to make a choice between the two, then both sides need to be comparable in use. Right now the Kubrow, while not lacking in use, have too many drawbacks to make them comparable to the Sentinels. If you removed all the drawbacks such as loss of Loyalty and degrading Health, and long downtime when trying to switch between different ones you have, then they would be on par with the Sentinel in my opinion.

 

I honestly want to use my Kubrow, I freaking love the idea of them, but I'm just too afraid to bring it into the field because I don't want to suffer the consequences of it dying and I can't afford the upkeep to keep it alive.

 

As for this being a one sided conversation, the only reason that is even remotely the case is because there are more people who dislike how the Kubrow work currently than there are people who do.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Severanth

[Zeitzbach]

Let's just think of it this way.

 

Currently, Kubrow is near useless compared to Sentinels as they're just additional damage that won't work well higher up.

 

HOWEVER

 

Like Sentinel, Kubrow will get more utility added to it as time goes by.

 

So until then.

 

Use whatever you want but for now Sentinel > Kubrow because it had been around for much longer. However, in the future, These two might finally on pars.

 

At the same time, if you aren't planning on doing a hardcore solo run, feel free to use whatever because Kubrow is great until the enemy unit start scaling up into lv 45+ anyway. Just don't use Sahasa in infected because its finisher mod can crash the game.

 

Or DE will let you use both of them at the same time.

[TheErebus.]

You can't tell people not to compare the Kubrow to the Sentinel when we are forced to pick between using one or the other. If we have to make a choice between the two, than both sides need to be comparable in use. Right now the Kubrow, while not lacking in use, have too many drawbacks to make them comparable to the Sentinels. If you removed all the drawbacks such as loss of Loyalty and degrading Health, and long downtime when trying to switch between different ones you have, then they would be on par with the Sentinel in my opinion.

*now it's the last one*

You're opinion and I shall respect it.

Respect my opinion and we wont have trouble.

 

And comparing kubrow to sentinel can work, if the OP and title isn't one sided to the original. A better way to do it would be "Kubrow or sentinel? A friendly discussion" 

[RahuHordika]

And comparing kubrow to sentinel can work, if the OP and title isn't one sided to the original. A better way to do it would be "Kubrow or sentinel? A friendly discussion"

This.

Comparing a Kubrow to a Sentinel is a fair deal indeed, but what this thread has been mostly about, and even the OP itself, was not 'How do we make Kubrows on par with Sentinels?' but rather 'Hah! My toy is better than this new feature in development! Neena neena neena!

[DirtyIrishman]

This.

Comparing a Kubrow to a Sentinel is a fair deal indeed, but what this thread has been mostly about, and even the OP itself, was not 'How do we make Kubrows on par with Sentinels?' but rather 'Hah! My toy is better than this new feature in development! Neena neena neena!

Actually almost every single post I've made so far has been pretty much pointing out the current flaws with the system and how to fix them. I stated a long time ago (and I've said it in other posts as well) how DE could make Kubrow comparable to Sentinels. For simplicity I'll even say it again here.

 

DNA Integrity: Make this an optional function, all Kubrow start at +0% and if you use Stabilizers it can raise it to +100%, but remove then negative percentages. If I don't want to use Stabilizers for the Bonus HP, I shouldn't have to.

 

Loyalty: Make this work like current DNA Integrity, instead of degrading upon death your Kubrow loses Loyalty by a certain percentage when you do not interact with it at least once over a certain span of time. This turns interactions into something enjoyable and make it feel like we are maintaining a bond with our Kobrow instead of it being a chore.

 

Stasis: Remove this, it's not necessary and there are other ways you can get plat from players than forcing us to rush stasis just because we want to swap our Kubrow around. With the above changes it would also make putting a Kubrow in stasis only necessary when switching one out for another.

[Liminal]

I don't have an issue with people that prefer the space dawgs, my issue is that Kubrows require a lot of work for (IMO) lower utility than Sentinels, which are craft-and-forget.