Bossing Nerf... De... Why?

[-DM-Endless]

I stopped after that.  Don't complain about something until you've experienced the change.

If you didn't stop reading u will see that I was talking about the idea of challenging as well as saying that there was not a single reason to touch that boss if not buffin it. so why a fix? (exept for solo issues, wich i already said it is fine)

[Zeitzbach]

Apparently, the only type of 'challenge' DE believes in, are pwn-auras of doom.

 

Actually making enemies 'tough,' however, is a no-no.

 

Go figure.

 

Pwn aura was actually challenging since you could easily avoid all of them by changing the way you move around the map. Enemy radar helped too to make sure you don't get pulled from behind.

 

Being stupid tough is stupid. It didn't change the way you play. It was a left click and hold, with the only change being "You need more bullets than before"

[-DM-Endless]

Pwn aura was actually challenging since you could easily avoid all of them by changing the way you move around the map. Enemy radar helped too to make sure you don't get pulled from behind.

 

Being stupid tough is stupid. It didn't change the way you play. It was a left click and hold, with the only change being "You need more bullets than before"

You're right, but right now is the only option. There where a lot of suggestions about increasing the dificulty on this forums, yet none of these ideas were imlemented yet.

[Suprkeke]

Apparently, the only type of 'challenge' DE believes in, are pwn-auras of doom.

 

Actually making enemies 'tough,' however, is a no-no.

 

Go figure.

How about make Lephantis actually hard. Hard as in "you should have good weapons, high shields/hp and/or very good reflexes or you'll die" instead of "Oh you want to use a rusty shotgun and a broken sword, don't worry, we'll turn Lephantis from T-Rex to a chicken".

[Zeitzbach]

You're right, but right now is the only option. There where a lot of suggestions about increasing the dificulty on this forums, yet none of these ideas were imlemented yet.

 

Bosses changes are a lot harder to implement. Number tweak is just a change in the formula in the function. It doesn't take long.

 

Meanwhile, new patterns require new animation, new effect, hitbox, etc. The amount of work required is at least 100x bigger. A single boss might actually take them a whole iteration (which is usually 2 months) to make.

 

This is what most people don't really understand. I used to think it was easy to just post a suggestion and tell them to work on it until I got into college and started programming. I went from "Your suggestion is great!" to "Lol no wonder the Dev never bothered replying"

[Aramanth]

If you didn't stop reading u will see that I was talking about the idea of challenging as well as saying that there was not a single reason to touch that boss if not buffin it. so why a fix? (exept for solo issues, wich i already said it is fine)

 

Because apparently he was too difficult.  Now people say he's too easy.  And that nonsense over scrambler refunds, and people demanding Bite even though they didn't lose their pet because it's unfair, and people complaining about how haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard it is to level kubrows up even though there's so much evidence suggesting they went straight to T4 survival with an unranked, unmodded pet.  I've seen Tumblr posts less whiny than people have been since U14 came out!

 

 

You know what?  This is my fault.  I don't know how or why, but it must clearly be because I'm too stupid to understand something.  There is no way a community can be this childish over things they know are being worked on, so the only logical answer is everyone's far too intelligent for someone like me to comprehend and I'm just too dumb to get it.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Aramanth

[Latronico]

Pwn aura was actually challenging since you could easily avoid all of them by changing the way you move around the map. Enemy radar helped too to make sure you don't get pulled from behind.

 

Being stupid tough is stupid. It didn't change the way you play. It was a left click and hold, with the only change being "You need more bullets than before"

 

This.

You guys have a strange idea of challenge. 

 

For me a challange is to fight an intelligent boss, maybe with no so high health and damage values but capable of realize serious tactics. Reach wave 200 in a defense mission for me isn't a challange, is stupid. 

 

And about the 'everyone has a Boltor Prime so let's get a buff to everything'. It's stupid too. There are dozens of weapons and you balance a game following just one of them of course.

Because, of course, if you want to do something you MUST adapt to 'pro players' way of play with Rhino Prime, Loki Prime, Boltor Prime, Dragon Nikana and so on. Of course. 

 

And then, when you will have just a boring game where you're forced to use the same gear as all the others, let's cry because it sucks and there is no fun at all. 

[jawnt]

Because matchmaking puts rank 2 people with mk1 Bratons with 1900 conclave people and that's a good way to get people to quit.

[Cwierz]

Him being a bullet sponge had nothing to do with difficulty. He was immune to status proc because my 80% Status boar prime couldn't inflict a single corrosive and burn on it was dumb. The attacks were easily dodged. My Oberon could easily outheal all of them all.

 

However, about 200 shotgun ammo down the drain (Ammo mutation helped), I still couldn't take down a single head. Only got a bunch of them down to half hp.

 

That had absolutely nothing to do with challenge. That's just being pointless and time consuming. If I wanted to clear it fast, all I had to do was arrange a team of 4 rhino stomping it to prevent it from moving with 4x projection.

Lephantis has a dps cap on him, which means in all honesty you probably did do enough damage to kill him, you were just using a non-ammo effiecent weapon and the damage you were doing was limited.

I beat him with another friend using my marelok thats about 2/3ish the way through a forma re-level and a coptering weapon. In this case, a boar prime probably isn't the best pick for taking him down. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by Cwierz

[Zeitzbach]

Lephantis has a dps cap on him, which means in all honesty you probably did do enough damage to kill him, you were just using a non-ammo effiecent weapon and the damage you were doing was limited.

I beat him with another friend using my marelok thats about 2/3ish the way through a forma re-level and a coptering weapon. In this case, a boar prime probably isn't the best pick for taking him down. 

 

Boar prime was to test the status effect if it was working on it or not. Even with a DPS cap, a well landed shot on the Grineer Head could easily net me a couple of shots dealing 200+ damage non crit which made the Grineer head extremely easy (not counting the fact it couldn't hit me at all to begin with). Sadly it appeared much less compared to the Infected and Corpus head.

 

I also brought like 40 Dojo Ammo gear with me at that time which I made ahead of time for some T4. I left the nest alive because my ammo mutation kept me supplied all the time as long as I continue to kill the infected. My rage gave me the infinite energy to keep healing and sustaining.

 

I could continue to take him down but I chose not to. It wasn't a challenge. It was a waste of time. If I went and bragged about "Soloing lephantis by repeating the same thing and wasting my ammo gears for 30 minutes+", they wouldn't clap and say I was "good" for beating it. They would call me "stupid" for wasting time on it.

 

I already have Eleventh Storm and Equilibrium anyway. When I realized that this "fake challenge" was pointless, I aborted the mission and went back to farming credit. The time requierd to kill Lephantis could easily net me 120k+ if I bothered to go farm Sechura / Hiera instead along with some keys and rare card (for hiera) for trasmutation.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Zeitzbach

[Tr1ples1xer]

Having bosses scale as your conclave rating increases is a system, which basically PUNISHES players for improving their gear with level ups, high tier mods and even equipping their frame with a primary, secondary and a melee weapon.

 

Imagine having to kill a boss called X with a level 30 Lato. Bad damage, low fire rate, small clip. Just a bad weapon in general. You do manage to kill the boss after struggling for 20 minutes. After that you level up some more, grab twin vipers, level them up and go back to boss X to try out your new weapon which deals 10 times more damage and has 5 times higher fire rate than your old shabby Lato.

 

The first thought that pops into mind is that the boss has no chance, and this is as it SHOULD be. Unfortunately due to scaling the boss now has 10 times more health and 5 times more armor taking yet again 20 minutes to kill. Can you see what's wrong with this picture?

 

DE should add content appropriate to high-tier/maxed out players instead of just mindlessly scaling beginner content linearly harder depending on what the player is wearing.

EXACTLY  !

 

Glad I'm not the only one that feels like this.

 

My maxed weapons should unleash hell wherever they go. 

[slappy330]

My Boltor prime does 800 damage per round-it does 22 to each head

 

My dread does constant 20k+ crits without headshots even-barely got to 1k EVEN with red crits

 

My syanpse is...I can't even get an accurate reading of weather I'm seeing two 2k hits or just one 20k...-doing less that 1k dps

 

Someone help and explain..why does lephantis have 12312341123523 armor?

[-DM-Endless]

Bosses changes are a lot harder to implement. Number tweak is just a change in the formula in the function. It doesn't take long.

 

Meanwhile, new patterns require new animation, new effect, hitbox, etc. The amount of work required is at least 100x bigger. A single boss might actually take them a whole iteration (which is usually 2 months) to make.

 

This is what most people don't really understand. I used to think it was easy to just post a suggestion and tell them to work on it until I got into college and started programming. I went from "Your suggestion is great!" to "Lol no wonder the Dev never bothered replying"

You are totally right on every word you write.

 

I agree with you but I meant to say that until DE does not implement all what is need to make a boss harder in the way you described, we will face enemies with more life, more damage etc.. and this is an approach already used in many games since ever, so I can't complain.

[Zeitzbach]

You are totally right on every word you write.

 

I agree with you but I meant to say that until DE does not implement all what is need to make a boss harder in the way you described, we will face enemies with more life, more damage etc.. and this is an approach already used in many games since ever, so I can't complain.

 

TBH, the Aura on Infected along with the pulls was one of the great change they added, and also a step toward the right direction. Bosses are much harder to fix. Right now, they're trying to get the exact scaling down so they will be challenging at all level. After they finally fix the number tweaking issue, they can work on further refining the design and rework some attacks that the other team should be working on.

 

They changed bosses before in the past and made Vor pretty challenging to fight to the point people would say "Newbie probably won't even be able to get past him" which showed that they did it right. Nef Anyo is waiting for a rework as well. I'm glad they actually bothered doing something and not just bury it under yet another boss.

[RahuHordika]

You guys have a strange idea of challenge. 

 

-snip-

Well it appears as the lack of actually challenge and strategy has turned a lot of people into masochists who enjoy being one shotted and spending 45 minutes to take down an enemy by the looks of how enemy nerfs in general are handled.

Personally I think the Hyena Pack is the bess boss(es) we have right now, they are not subjected by any bs gimmicks, one shotting and unavoidable attacks (well, minus Th) and no such thing as invincibility, relying on movement to avoid being damaged. A challenging boss needs to be dynamic with all of it's assets, not this 'rawr I am invincible and deal lots of damage, my only moves are avoided by running randomly and without thought and you can only kill me in my weak spots that ocassionally are revealed'.

[Kartumterek]

You guys seriously need to make up your minds. Either easy or hard enemies.

 

this game is catering way too much to the whiner crowd

[ZackNeutron]

I think Lephantis got nerfed is normal. Because this boss drop nothing except Rebound and Quick Return.

[ZackNeutron]

What DE could do to correct this issue.

Instead of having scaled Bossing, Add a Difficult selection.

Easy> Normal > Hard > Extreme > Nightmare

Each mode gives Different amount of EXP and kinds of mods

 

 

But, I completely agree with this. DE should add difficulty level with Assassination mission.

The higher the difficulty, the higher chance to get rare mods and high rewards.

[fatpig84]

People forgot about Corrosive projection.

When I went in, it was tough watching my Marelok doing 200+ damage.

 

But once I got a team with 3x Corrosive projection, he still gave you the immense danger of not dodging, but killing him was much more tolerable. Play smart fellas, not run into a wall without thinking.

 

 

P.S. Make Tethra mods drop from level 80 Lephantis only !!

Edited July 24, 2014 by fatpig84

[KingTaro]

So I tried the Lephantis after this nerf and it's back to "just stand still and shoot untill it goes down, no need to dodge cause no insta-kill now."

 

While there were some that considered the boss a bit tough to deal with, most people were pleased with the boss actually feeling like a boss, so why did it get nerfed?

 

Instead of nerfing, I'd have have preferred if those bosses got an appropriate reward making it worth the time.

[BlackHole777]

 Reason is pretty noticeable, it's Entertaining to fight something that is difficult to beat. The people who complained about being Blasted by Projectiles, simply have never tried dodging.

What I'm confuse about.

Why is DE going with minority complain instead of the Majority's support?

What DE could do to correct this issue.

Instead of having scaled Bossing, Add a Difficult selection.

Easy> Normal > Hard > Extreme > Nightmare

Each mode gives Different amount of EXP and kinds of mods

ODA was fun while it lasted.

 

 

I agree 100 % that there should be harder and more difficult bosses, however

adding more and more health doesn't make a boss fun, in makes it boring

 

higher level, more health

 

and I don't think either side has a majority

[Uzpian]

You guys seriously need to make up your minds. Either easy or hard enemies.

This why DE can't do what is needed to be done sometimes.

[Dalawantahr]

Because matchmaking puts rank 2 people with mk1 Bratons with 1900 conclave people and that's a good way to get people to quit.

This is a problem, helped a guy to open more planets by killing Jackal, he was new player. It was a long fight the Jackal was level 51 bullet sponge. At the end he said "Damn that was hard!". Imagine what was going trough his mind, the horror of facing any boss without help from vets. I told him sorry for the difficult fight, 'cause of the boss was scaling to me, but I think he fail to understand other than Warframe is so freaking hard to play.

[fatpig84]

This is a problem, helped a guy to open more planets by killing Jackal, he was new player. It was a long fight the Jackal was level 51 bullet sponge. At the end he said "Damn that was hard!". Imagine what was going trough his mind, the horror of facing any boss without help from vets. I told him sorry for the difficult fight, 'cause of the boss was scaling to me, but I think he fail to understand other than Warframe is so freaking hard to play.

 

If you went in with just a sword, you won't get such numbers XD

[Tulzscha]

Please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/204165-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-a-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.