So...the Jackal Now Breaks The Rules [Aka Pvp Now Effects Pve]

[Coatduck]

We were, and it took a clip and a half to take out one leg. 

 

Please tell us, what is your conclave when you run it solo, so we can test this ourselves....We kinda need to confirm this.

I think about 1860 if I recall. Was a while ago.

Again, you should make sure it's the legs you're shooting, a few times it told me that I was shooting the leg when I was really hitting the body.

He also has a few seconds of leg invulnerability after he stands up if I recall, so keep that in mind.

[Gigaus]

I think about 1860 if I recall. Was a while ago.

Again, you should make sure it's the legs you're shooting, a few times it told me that I was shooting the leg when I was really hitting the body.

He also has a few seconds of leg invulnerability after he stands up if I recall, so keep that in mind.

 

Yes, thank you...I'm Mastery rank 11; I've beaten the Jackal plenty of times, and know it's mechanics. You don't need to explain these to me-- Though thank you all the same.

 

I'm gonna try running it with a 1860 conclave and take pictures. Care to share what weapons you were using, and frame too? 

[Coatduck]

Frame was trin, though I didn't end up using any abilities I don't think, maybe a link to get those mine ospreys to stfu. Boltor prime with half-assed mods (Which is what I used on him), akbolto and glaive prime just to get my conclave up high so that I could see what you were talking about level wise.

 

And as for explaining the mechanics, it seems to me as though you don't understand the mechanics*, as I took him out solo with a half-assed build that was designed to boost conclave and make the enemy more difficult without actually adding anything to your damage.
*By mechanics I of course mean what you're referring to as a mechanic but what I'd refer to as a bug, I.E the UI showing you're aiming at the leg while you're actually aiming at the body.

[Gigaus]

Frame was trin, though I didn't end up using any abilities I don't think, maybe a link to get those mine ospreys to stfu. Boltor prime with half-assed mods (Which is what I used on him), akbolto and glaive prime just to get my conclave up high so that I could see what you were talking about level wise.

 

And as for explaining the mechanics, it seems to me as though you don't understand the mechanics*, as I took him out solo with a half-assed build that was designed to boost conclave and make the enemy more difficult without actually adding anything to your damage.

*By mechanics I of course mean what you're referring to as a mechanic but what I'd refer to as a bug, I.E the UI showing you're aiming at the leg while you're actually aiming at the body.

 

Alright, and thanks for clarifying.

 

And I can understand that, however at the same time I've run it previously [can't run it right this second, because jackal's node is infested </3 ], and gone in with sniper rifles and the like, heck I mentioned I used the Soma. We did down him a few times, don't get me wrong, but even his legs had so much HP that we ended up having to spend more ammo than we should have to down him....And even when we did, we did so little. When the infested doggy is off the node, I'll run it again with a high conclave build, and see how it turns out. 

[Coatduck]

Alright, and thanks for clarifying.

 

And I can understand that, however at the same time I've run it previously [can't run it right this second, because jackal's node is infested </3 ], and gone in with sniper rifles and the like, heck I mentioned I used the Soma. We did down him a few times, don't get me wrong, but even his legs had so much HP that we ended up having to spend more ammo than we should have to down him....And even when we did, we did so little. When the infested doggy is off the node, I'll run it again with a high conclave build, and see how it turns out. 

Again this makes no sense to me. Do you have an extinguished key on? Because I fought him 10 levels higher with no team to back me up with a barely modded gun and it took me under a minute, and this was a nightmare mission. I'm sorry but if you're having a problem it's not the game that's the issue.

[Gigaus]

Again this makes no sense to me. Do you have an extinguished key on? Because I fought him 10 levels higher with no team to back me up with a barely modded gun and it took me under a minute, and this was a nightmare mission. I'm sorry but if you're having a problem it's not the game that's the issue.

 

All I can say is I haven't played against him since...I'd say a week after this thread was made. Perhaps they've changed it so it's more reasonable. Perhaps they lied, again, and it's not based on Conclave but another value, such as number of players or some such.

 

And...I'll be blunt here, maybe you're lying.....Sorry, but it seems a bit out of place that...you got him at level 65 with only one player's conclave rating, number one, and number two didn't have the same issue so many others on this forum were for a couple weeks when he was lower levels....I need to test this out for myself before I say anything else. 

[Coatduck]

All I can say is I haven't played against him since...I'd say a week after this thread was made. Perhaps they've changed it so it's more reasonable. Perhaps they lied, again, and it's not based on Conclave but another value, such as number of players or some such.

 

And...I'll be blunt here, maybe you're lying.....Sorry, but it seems a bit out of place that...you got him at level 65 with only one player's conclave rating, number one, and number two didn't have the same issue so many others on this forum were for a couple weeks when he was lower levels....I need to test this out for myself before I say anything else. 

Added levels come from modding based on conclave and the fact that it was nightmare mode. It also averages out conclave to make it fun for the whole family.

Currently he's infested, otherwise I would boot fraps and record me doing it again for you, because it's not hard.

Remember when I said sometimes it bugs out and tells you that you're shooting the arm when in fact the body's hitbox is in the way?

This is very clearly the problem you're having, unless of course you completely don't know what you're doing.

I've given you a number of reasons why this could have happened but you seem to be ignoring all of them and just saying I'm lying now. Shall I direct you to the thread documenting my journey through the game using only unranked excal/skana? https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/243663-sword-alone/ just in case you need it, you can refer to the jackal entry where I took him out with a level 12 un-potato'd skana, then consider that the conclave rating is higher than it should be because I'm using forma'd gear, and the forma did nothing because at that point I had just gotten rid of polarities.

I know what I'm talking about here, don't try to tell me I'm lying because you can't figure out how to kill the second boss you ever fight.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Coatduck

[Gigaus]

Added levels come from modding based on conclave and the fact that it was nightmare mode. It also averages out conclave to make it fun for the whole family.

Currently he's infested, otherwise I would boot fraps and record me doing it again for you, because it's not hard.

Remember when I said sometimes it bugs out and tells you that you're shooting the arm when in fact the body's hitbox is in the way?

This is very clearly the problem you're having, unless of course you completely don't know what you're doing.

I've given you a number of reasons why this could have happened but you seem to be ignoring all of them and just saying I'm lying now. Shall I direct you to the thread documenting my journey through the game using only unranked excal/skana? https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/243663-sword-alone/ just in case you need it, you can refer to the jackal entry where I took him out with a level 12 un-potato'd skana, then consider that the conclave rating is higher than it should be because I'm using forma'd gear, and the forma did nothing because at that point I had just gotten rid of polarities.

I know what I'm talking about here, don't try to tell me I'm lying because you can't figure out how to kill the second boss you ever fight.

 

No, you've told me one reason why this may be happening, and it's a graphical UI glitch which has no bearing on whether or not damage is done to a boss. Aaaaaaand you basically said that the situation is -worse- while claiming it's better-- If it's 55+ with 3 people, then how did it get to be 60 with just one?....That's pretty damn inconsistent. 

 

I'm calling it right now, it really seems like you're trying to boast and look better than you are...'Oh I ran the game with all this under leveled stuff and did all this stuff'-- That's nice, what does any of that have to do with what's being discussed here?....FFS, you're acting like a try hard just trying to 'prove' you're not lying....Which....none of it actually proves you're not totally BSing and just trying to puff out your chest...Again, I can't say anything until I actually test it out, so...You can scream and shout all you want; There's no way to prove what you're saying is true, and getting mad at me isn't going to do anything about it. 

 

now, please sit down and have some patience, or get out of my thread. I don't tolerate try-hards that are full of themselves. 

Edited September 11, 2014 by Gigaus

[Coatduck]

No, you've told me one reason why this may be happening, and it's a graphical UI glitch which has no bearing on whether or not damage is done to a boss.

Remember when you said you understood the mechanics? Well if this is what you think you're clearly wrong. If you think you're shooting the leg when in fact you're shooting the body, you're going to go through a clip and a half before you do anything to him.

If you're actually shooting the leg it doesn't take long to kill him, if you're shooting the body he's a bullet sponge, and sometimes the UI tells you you're shooting the leg when in fact you're shooting the body. That would perfectly explain your issues.

As for your accusations, I mentioned in my original post that it was nightmare.

High Level Enemies: Enemies will have a higher level than normal. - From the wiki. Seems to me to be about 10-20 levels higher in nightmare. Challenge was timer if you care.

Enemy Damage Buff: Enemies will have innate triple damage buff. - Also wiki. Self explanatory.

I also mentioned that it averages out your team's conclave, it doesn't add them, meaning the enemy boost is only very slight from a mission with multiple people.

Meaning that assuming your conclave was the same as mine (which you've never actually mentioned, so yours could be even lower), we start off even, you get a 10 level increase from having a team, I get a 20 level increase from nightmare. That math works out perfectly. I saw this thread and was concerned that you were correct. I tested it and when I came back to tell you that it's just an issue on your end and was met with hostility from the get-go

Seriously it's like you want me to break down the game engine to tell you how the math works here, because this all makes perfect sense and is completely reasonable. This situation is solved, and if you don't want to admit that you didn't notice the UI bug, then fine, go ahead and convince yourself that you couldn't have had such a hard time and he's clearly invincible, after all, you're mastery 11.

[Just4Games]

How to kill Jackal:

1. Hide behind a pillar.

2. Shoot one of his legs.

3. Shoot his head/body when he's down.

4. Repeat till he's dead.

5. Enjoy.

 

 

While he's down you actually bypass the shields.

[ihaveBO]

Saw this post and decided to try it out solo:

 

C1879 (trying to match 1860) gear up against a lvl 57 Jackal. Took it out under a minute too.

 

My setup:

Rhino (no abilities used)

Latron Prime (Down graded mods with additional radiation damage only, rank 7 serration and unranked crit mods)

Angstrum (unused)

Dragon Nikata (unused; didnt even coptor during boss fight)

 

Took little damage even though it is my first Jackal run in a year or so.

Edited September 11, 2014 by ihaveBO

[Coatduck]

Remember when I said this boss fight was easy and should take you less than a minute even in nightmare mode? Yeah.
Well clearly you don't know what you're doing, because two other people just came in, play tested it, and backed up what I said.
Next time don't start accusing people of lying until you actually have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

[Coatduck]

Now in the video you'll see that I started off by shooting the shoulder. If you look at what the UI says, it almost always just says "Jackal" with a few flashes of "Jackal Right Arm" and it's pretty darn sparatic. Sure sometimes I could shoot the shoulder and it would work but sometimes it was shielded and I couldn't get through that. Notice though that when I moved to the foot it worked every time, so long as I landed the shot.

If you look at about 30 seconds you can see that after he stands back up his leg is invincible for a few seconds. This could also cause you some trouble if you didn't understand what was happening.

As for his level, it's 16 levels lower than it was when I fought him in nightmare. This math also works out, in that nightmare boosts enemy levels by around 10-20 levels, 16 being just about smack in the middle average. I'd go fight him in nightmare but again he's not under nightmare right now.

As for casting link after killing him, I saw he'd fired some rockets and I hate explosion procs. Other than that you should see that I didn't use a single ability and I only used my boltor.

From the time that I first fired my gun to the time that he died it was 40 seconds, about 10 of which I was showing you that the hit-boxes are derpy and that's probably why you had as much trouble as you did, so 30 second boss fight.
Now
Do you want me to draw you a picture?
Here, I'll draw you a picture

 

See how you can shoot at the arms but the shoulders are still inside the blue hitbox? or how as shown in yellow you can shoot at the arms but hit the sheilded hitbox before you hit the red one? Now do you understand how it can look like you're shooting at his arms but in fact you're hitting his body? I don't know what more I can do here, I've already recorded a video and drawn a picture to explain this to you.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Coatduck

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

Scaling enemies is a good thing and keeping them at a set level is a good thing.You need a biased mix. Which way the mix goes depends on the game.In a game like Warframe, you should be more heavily in favor of a set level, but in a game like Skyrim or Fallout, scaling is better.WhyWarframe:      Warframe is like a generic stage based "campaign." Sort of like a FPS's campaign. You advance through the "stages" (planets) where you meet stronger enemies. In shooters, your skill compensates more powerful enemies. In Warframe, your s*** does. So you go through the planets defeating more and more difficult enemies. You're also able to go back and replay easier planets. The reason the easier planets should not scale (or scale very little) is that your accumulated "skill" (your farmed s***) should not be punished. Otherwise, you cheat players, and you render high level s*** almost useless (the "almost" part is after this paragraph) as it is still only as effective (overall) as starter s***. In other words, if it took two hits to kill an enemy 100 hours ago, then you're saying that it should still take two hits to kill the same enemy on the same level...100 hours later.

     This system basically forces players to simply complete the campaign (all the planets) only once and then leave. Why, because their high level s*** was only used to complete the harder levels. 

 

 

Skyrim:

 

   Skyrim is literally open world. You can start the game and immediately go attack an endgame enemy. All weapons, armors, spells, quests, and basically all other forms of s*** are their from the get go. This means that you could go max out something then go stomp easy quests around the world unless there was scaling. Whether you are new or have been playing for a while, there will always be a challenge. The reason this is different from Warframe is that in Warframe, you only get things in a (sort of) set order. In Skyrim, you can get the best weapon in the game right from the get go. In Skyrim, it is "easier" to obtain s***.

 

Now, remember that you need a good mix. Warframe has a small amount of scaling along with special missions like nightmare mode, dark sectors, the Void, etc.

 

Skyrim needs to make sure that end game stuff can't be retrieved within a few hours of the start. In other words, the final boss shouldn't be killed by an iron sword. 

 

Scaling is used to keep things fresh. Set levels are used to keep things fun/fair.