Argon Crystals, Kubrows. A Trend We're Seeing?

[eksby]

Degrading resources increases Replay value.

Degrading resources to increase replay is a cheaper alternative than to address game design flaws.

Degrading resources allows you to bypass the need for more content by making existing content harder to obtain.

Maximum Game dev logic.

You've said exactly what I wanted to say. 

[OptimumBow0]

It fits into lore. Kubrows as of right now are cloned from genetic material from BAD clones of them, so ours degrade, ableit a lot slower. They are far, far more powerful than the wild ones and far, far more powerful than a Sentinel. They are living, breathing, organic-like things in the game, so we must take care of them, or they die.

DE should probably add in another stage into the Kubrow quest, because I haven't gotten cloned, genetic material for my Kubrow yet.

 

I'd rather the DNA stabilization be changed in one of the following ways:

 

1. It's made cheaper.

2. It lasts longer.

3. It's a 1-time deal (because the impermanence of stabilization does not make sense to me; if it's impermanent, let the dog die, but if I can actually stabilize it, why does my dog continue to degrade?)

 

My justification for the 1-time stabilization - I've already spent 100,000 on the power core. That's twice the cost of a carefree sentinel. Then there's the argon cost which is a lot more than any sentinel as of now requires. And there's the longer timewall. And longer grindwall. And the loyalty upkeep. 

 

All that could be made bearable if we actually got cloned DNA and the stabilization cost was toned down. 

 

You might not see a problem, but for quite a few players, 100k is too much. Even for a week. 

Amen.

[CorrTerek]

Then play less.

 

Telling people to stop playing the game is not an effective way to keep players. 

 

alright, let's clear this up one by one.

 

- Argon Crystals are available outside of the Void now. so in the random Missions you're playing from time to time, you should always have few handy.

so Argon Crystals are more available now, since they're being used by non-one-time blueprints.

 

Where are they available outside of the Void? The latest hotfix removed them from Mercury, where they'd been erroneously dropping previously. Does Phorid still drop them? 

[Wahooo]

Argon crystals are fine, man Argon is a noble gas and I think it's not supposed to form crystals.

 

Ar can crystallize but it is pretty damn cold.  I've used liquid Ar plenty for different lines of work and it is pretty similar to liquid nitrogen but even colder, like dry ice, it sublimates, goes from solid directly to gas since the pressure and temperature conditions to keep it liquid is pretty extreme as well.

 

Anyway.  Having one resource degrade and need small amounts is not a big deal at all.  The amount i've seen float away with nothing to spend it on is pretty large, and I'm not exactly a hardcore player.

As long as it doesn't move to more and more like it I don't see a problem.

 

As far as Kubrow goes I haven't made one since I haven't had much time to jump through the hoops since the update, but that is kind of a lot of credits on a regular basis.  I know the game needs a credit sink, but i just blew through a million right before the update on some large trade taxes and fusing some high ranked mods.

And since Kubrow are on earth and something low level players are going to look at, that is a LOT of credits.

[Etsoree]

DE should probably add in another stage into the Kubrow quest, because I haven't gotten cloned, genetic material for my Kubrow yet.

 

 

I personally think that it's overall bearable. It's endgame material, endgame content that they gave us with nothing else to do. Personally I have one of the four at 30, two matured and my third maturing now. They hit 30 kinda fast, too, and they're EXTREMELY easy to keep alive in missions once you know how to do it.

 

They level themselves up too basically from the massive damage they cause on enemies. Mine keeps one-shotting level 30 Corrupted.

[fatpig84]

You might not see a problem, but for quite a few players, 100k is too much. Even for a week. 

 

You only need to use the stabilizer once every 2 days since it heals 40%, so 100k over 12 days ain't that big.

Unless you must have your Kubrow at 100% health all the time of course, then you got a problem.

[Killist]

Self-depleting resource... pet maintenance.... I wonder if equipment maintenance is around the corner

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

I'd rather just have the Kubrow degrade purely through in game mission time. So while in the ship, the Kubrow is 'safe' from any further degradation. 

[JohnProdman]

Telling people to stop playing the game is not an effective way to keep players. 

He's the one that said it.

[PachTrick]

Ar can crystallize but it is pretty damn cold.  I've used liquid Ar plenty for different lines of work and it is pretty similar to liquid nitrogen but even colder, like dry ice, it sublimates, goes from solid directly to gas since the pressure and temperature conditions to keep it liquid is pretty extreme as well.

 

Yeah that's what I meant, you only get Argon crystals in extreme conditions, so it decays in the game.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Yeah that's what I meant, you only get Argon crystals in extreme conditions, so it decays in the game.

"Buys an artificial argon cooler to go next to my flux capacitor."

[taiiat]

Where are they available outside of the Void? The latest hotfix removed them from Mercury, where they'd been erroneously dropping previously. Does Phorid still drop them? 

no hotfix has mentioned Argon Crystals being removed from the Missions outside of the Void we were getting them from. they aren't a Common Resource so datamining with fair certainty that they may or may not be available outside the Void anymore (excluding Vay Hek ofcourse), is time consuming.

 

but no Hotfix has mentioned it, so i have no reason to believe it's changed.

 

Degrading resources to increase replay is a cheaper alternative than to address game design flaws.

'not having infinite content that's being produced faster than a player can consume it' isn't a flaw.

 

it's physically impossible for a Developer to create content faster than a Player can consume it. you'd need a Development team that rivals the Playerbase in bodies in order for a Developer to do that.

do tell me which Developer on Earth has millions of employees. ah, yes. nobody.

 

replayability is crucial in a game that's expected to be played longer than the average linear Singeplayer story. players MUST have a reason to play the same content multiple times. otherwise content is consumed even faster, and it's already too fast as it is for any Developer to keep up.

[rangeless]

Well, DE also doesn't like the idea of veteran players slacking off and having those "Oh, it's one of those Tenno Reinforcement days where I can fiddle my thumbs, cook from my foundry without playing an actual game, then proceed to log off."

[SirAuron]

I don't mind a credit sink for Kubrows. Keeping their DNA up at the cost of credits is reasonable. But I always feel like I'm on a timer. The clock is always ticking. This is how they get you to keep playing the game.

 

Help me.

Looks more like keeping players on a short leash. 

[SirAuron]

Well, DE also doesn't like the idea of veteran players slacking off and having those "Oh, it's one of those Tenno Reinforcement days where I can fiddle my thumbs, cook from my foundry without playing an actual game, then proceed to log off."

So they add "Stabilize and pet pooch" to that ever so short chore list.

[DJ_Redwire]

The premise behind content that disappears or degrades over time is that they are trying to get players to log in more consistently. I'm not defending the practice nor downplaying it - that's just what they're trying to achieve. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by DJ_Redwire

[RextintorZ]

Constant use of Stabilizers? What are you talking about? I have my Kubrow since Update 14 came out and only had to use ONE stabilizer so far, and right now its life is at +80%.

 

People that keep complaining about this doesn't know how to play the game so they have to blame developers, not themselves.

Edited July 24, 2014 by RextintorZ

[SirAuron]

Self-depleting resource... pet maintenance.... I wonder if equipment maintenance is around the corner

Has for ship was mentioned as well to add "Ship Maintenance" to that.

[SirAuron]

Constant use of Stabilizers? What are you talking about? I have my Kubrow since Update 14 came out and only had to use ONE stabilizer so far, and right now its life is at +80%.

 

People that keep complaining about this doesn't know how to play the game so they have to blame developers, not themselves.

Actually they are NOT told how and when when to use it so what did you expect? How many actually know there is a stabilizer? How many kubrows have died due to unintended neglect?

 

The game should allow you to simply place the stabilizer into incubator and have it do the work for you like a battery. And the tenno can choose to do it himself if he likes.

 

There, no more complaints or less..

Edited July 24, 2014 by SirAuron

[SirAuron]

The premise behind content that disappears or degrades over time is that they are trying to get players to log in more consistently. I'm not defending the practice nor downplaying it - that's just what they're trying to achieve. 

Or they can choose to use stasis.and log in when they feel like it.

[SirAuron]

Need to keep up you Kubrow for a week? Play one game of Sechura

And where is this?

[fatpig84]

Actually they are NOT told how and when when to use it so what did you expect? How many actually know there is a stabilizer? How many kubrows have died due to unintended neglect?

 

The game should allow you to simply place the stabilizer into incubator and have it do the work for you like a battery. And the tenno can choose to do it himself if he likes.

 

There, no more complaints or less..

 

I can live with that if injectors are auto stabbed in every time the Kubrow is at 60% health.

[eksby]

Constant use of Stabilizers? What are you talking about? I have my Kubrow since Update 14 came out and only had to use ONE stabilizer so far, and right now its life is at +80%.

 

People that keep complaining about this doesn't know how to play the game so they have to blame developers, not themselves.

I never said constant use of stabilizers, if you read the first paragraph I said "every two weeks". 

 

However, for those who actually want their kubrows to have more survivability during missions, it won't be just "one stabilizer every two weeks".

 

 

And where is this?

It's on Pluto, Dark Sector defense.

 

Although, he's incorrect, Sechura gives about 23k credits per round, so playing one game of Sechura won't be enough to buy a stabilizer.

Edited July 24, 2014 by kuliise

[CedarDpg]

Argon crystals are fine, man Argon is a noble gas and I think it's not supposed to form crystals.

 

Argon is a solid below -189.35C and its crystal packing method is cubic, I believe.

 

So maybe we can get a cold storage unit that would stop Argon from evaporating. :)

Edited July 24, 2014 by CedarDpg

[eksby]

no hotfix has mentioned Argon Crystals being removed from the Missions outside of the Void we were getting them from. they aren't a Common Resource so datamining with fair certainty that they may or may not be available outside the Void anymore (excluding Vay Hek ofcourse), is time consuming.

 

but no Hotfix has mentioned it, so i have no reason to believe it's changed.

 

'not having infinite content that's being produced faster than a player can consume it' isn't a flaw.

 

it's physically impossible for a Developer to create content faster than a Player can consume it. you'd need a Development team that rivals the Playerbase in bodies in order for a Developer to do that.

do tell me which Developer on Earth has millions of employees. ah, yes. nobody.

 

replayability is crucial in a game that's expected to be played longer than the average linear Singeplayer story. players MUST have a reason to play the same content multiple times. otherwise content is consumed even faster, and it's already too fast as it is for any Developer to keep up.

To be fair, yes it's hard to create content that will keep everyone interested, and the devs have a hard time to keep up with demand. But I don't believe degrading resources is a good way about it. What if it was instead something we can work toward, for example the event leaderboards are always fun to do to get to the top. Maybe a weekly prize for being top 3 of something or other?