Argon Crystals, Kubrows. A Trend We're Seeing?

[SirAuron]

Argon crystals are fine, man Argon is a noble gas and I think it's not supposed to form crystals.

 

The Kubrow DNA thing is too much though, I don't have that many 100K for me to spend on.

1 pack 6 shots, 1 shot 40%, so it's 100k for 12 days.

For a month, you'll need an extra 300k.

You might say spending 300k is normal if you fuse mods and craft stuff, yes it's not much but now we'll need 600k for a month if we have a kubrow, that's @(*()$ insane.

People have forgotten the new player experience and you do fight Jackle pretty early on so they'll have that kubrow before they can even support it financially all the while buying, crafting, upgrading, etc.

 

So a lot of new players with dead kubrow corpse rotting in their ships with that horrid stench and Ordis *@##$ing(complaining) about it every 5 seconds.

[SirAuron]

I can live with that if injectors are auto stabbed in every time the Kubrow is at 60% health.

A good system would allow you to set it to use it at whichever % health you feel is necessary.

[taiiat]

A good system would allow you to set it to use it at whichever % health you feel is necessary.

60% would be sufficient. you're not saving any Credits by poking your dog when it's at lower Health. you're only delaying when to spend the Credit consumables by a day or two. ultimately you're spending the same amount regardless unless you're wasting parts of the consumables due to Health being too high.

[fatpig84]

A good system would allow you to set it to use it at whichever % health you feel is necessary.

 

A syringe heals up to 40%, that would be fine for me.

But more options more fun for all.

Edited July 24, 2014 by fatpig84

[Drache]

I really like the mechanic of argon crystals, feels very new and I have the sensation of importance of this resource, until I see it in Nami Solo…
It start become overused, some items that are too lame are using this, there no coherence  (coherence is a serious problem in warframe)
Keep the argon the way that it is, but use better, Rhino prime must have as cost,  not Hydroid, not Nami solo, not in Silva n’ Aegis research (indeed Silva n’ Aegis cost a forma to craft, there no sense with the power or potential of this weapon)
About the kubrow, warframe is not TAMAGOSHI, there no need to be so expensive the crafting (cause is a random element present, the quest for a perfect kubrow, with the colors, shape and role that you want), there no need to be so expensive the maintenance (they don’t need dna stabilisator, they need food) and there no need that intensive maintenance, have to be every day?
think about the practically of a kubrow, 3 hour to defreeze, cannot be used in every mission, intensive care, boring mods farming…

[AbaliskInfinite]

Or they can choose to use stasis.and log in when they feel like it.

Stasis recovery is 3 hours, which is another issue being prodded at.

[Tulzscha]

Please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/204165-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-a-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[TonyFoot]

I disagree on removing the time degredation of argon crystals. Veteran players know right off the bat that when new weapons come up, they can just build them right away. Weapons that use argon crystals dont follow that rule. Veteran players must go out to the void and seek out the resources needed to build the new weapons. It's a way to keep us working for what we want. Removing that just seems to take the challenge out of some building. I like seeking resources, and as someone who plays hours and hours on end, you have almost an infinite abundance of resources, EXCEPT for argon crystals.

 

THIS. argon crystals are a way to subvert the situation where a vet will have near infinite resources when you gauge spending VS. passive income, concerning guns, frames, w/e. crystals really are needed so that people don't just blow off the resource costs as negligible.

 

I also disagree with most of the Kubrow argument, in that I enjoy taking care of my Kubrow. It follow the trend of things like tamagachi, farmville, etc. you log in everyday and give a little love to those in your care. If you know you're going to be away for a while, put the kubrow in stasis to prevent degradation while you're gone (though I think the wait times for that are a little long. I know that they are there for the purpose of discouraging people from just hitting stasis whenever they log off, which defeats the point of the mechanic in the first place, but I think they're still a little too high.)

 

I DO think however, that the degredation is too fast (by a fair bit) and that the DNA stabilizer cost is too damn high. Even half that cost would be somewhat difficult to maintain, on top of mod fusion costs, gear building, prime building, etc, but a least it would be more reasonable.

 

All in all, Kubrows are still fresh and need to be tweaked, but the mechanics have a solid theory behind them. It's not unexpected, really.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

 

Please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/204165-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-a-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

 

That guide is pretty bad, to be honest.  It doesn't actually give a clear definition of what General Discussion is supposed to be. The most I get from it is, "don't talk about the game directly in GD". 

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

That guide is pretty bad, to be honest.  It doesn't actually give a clear definition of what General Discussion is supposed to be. The most I get from it is, "don't talk about the game directly in GD". 

No, GD is where you talk about the game that doesn't include critiquing, any sort of concept, or help questions. It's a place to discuss things. ie. "What frame do you like the most?" "What's your favorite tileset?"

[MeduSalem]

Even I would not like to sound that angry, but somehow I've to sign OP.

 

Degrading/Decaying stuff is not a popular game mechanic in the eyes of players. It might get some players to log in more often, but in the long term many people say "screw it" and miss out on the content that's locked behind those mechanics.

I'm not that mad at Argon Crystals even they feel like a cheap way so people are not able to overstock on a particular resource because it's not needed as often anyways and only in low quanitites but it's a "foundation" to add similar stuff (if not worse) and I'm not sure if we want to take this path.

 

The Kubrows as interesting as they might be for some people I for sure will level that thing only to 30 and then toss it into the stasis chamber forever (or at least as long as we can't release it to the wilderness)... just because i'm not feeling like babysitting a Tamagotchi... I don't want to be forced to grind for credits/resources just so my companion doesn't die or degrade. If I'd want that I'd get myself a real pet in real life. So that's why I probably won't be bothering much about that.

 

I might experiment a little bit with the DNA and crossbreeding thing to help some of my friends out who want a special trait or something, but if that's too random then I won't care much about it too because there's no sense doing so if it leads nowhere.

Edited July 24, 2014 by MeduSalem

[Viverim]

So, Argon Crystals pretty much drop in Void?  I have no clue, as I have never gotten one (I don't play in the Void very often).

So, please explain how new players are supposed to craft weapons if they aren't high enough in level to get the materials they need to craft with?

[fatpig84]

So, Argon Crystals pretty much drop in Void?  I have no clue, as I have never gotten one (I don't play in the Void very often).

So, please explain how new players are supposed to craft weapons if they aren't high enough in level to get the materials they need to craft with?

 

There is waay sufficient amount of gear in the market that does not require Argon crystals or even forma.

 

For forma, 19 weapons require forma.

And 6 weapons require Argon crystals.

 

That is 25 weapons that are locked behind a specific void material wall.

And to date, all prime weapons do not require any Crystals or forma, yet.

 

Off my head, we got over 130 weapons including Prime and not including "specials" like SVandal, wraith TV or strun wraith etc.

Remove the prime weapons and you still got plenty.

 

They will have enough really for a good while.

Edited July 24, 2014 by fatpig84

[Viverim]

There is waay sufficient amount of gear in the market that does not require Argon crystals or even forma.

 

For forma, 19 weapons require forma.

And 6 weapons require Argon crystals.

 

Off my head, we got over 130 weapons including Prime and not including "specials" like SVandal, wraith TV or strun wraith etc.

They will have enough really.

You aren't thinking that through.  Those are the older weapons.  New players don't look first at the older weapons.  They look at the newer ones.  The ones that everyone is talking about.  They aren't going to say "Oh, Silva & Aegis are super gear that I'm not intended to get for a few months.  Let me look at the Bo instead."  They are going to say "Wait!  I can't make the Silva & Aegis?!?!  What's this S#*%!!!"

 

This does not a happy new player base make.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

So, Argon Crystals pretty much drop in Void?  I have no clue, as I have never gotten one (I don't play in the Void very often).

So, please explain how new players are supposed to craft weapons if they aren't high enough in level to get the materials they need to craft with?

A) What fatpig84 said.

B) The 'level' required to get to the void for items is the ability to face roughly level 18 content. This is easily possible and practical for new players when they get to that level. There is no reason they need these weapons and equipment before they are able to accomplish this.

[fatpig84]

You aren't thinking that through.  Those are the older weapons.  New players don't look first at the older weapons.  They look at the newer ones.  The ones that everyone is talking about.  They aren't going to say "Oh, Silva & Aegis are super gear that I'm not intended to get for a few months.  Let me look at the Bo instead."  They are going to say "Wait!  I can't make the Silva & Aegis?!?!  What's this S#*%!!!"

 

This does not a happy new player base make.

 

That is a player problem if he just go for the flashiest new weapon.

But DE can control that in a certain fashion.

 

That is why we have Mastery levels.

They put Soma behind a Mastery rank 6 wall for a reason no ?

 

 

DE has to further revamp the Mastery level, so we can push even more gear to Mastery 10.

Then people will have to earn it before they can swing it.

Edited July 24, 2014 by fatpig84

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

DE has to further revamp the Mastery level, so we can push even more gear to Mastery 10, so people will have to earn it before they can swing it.

I'm unsure as to why they haven't already done this, tbh.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

No, GD is where you talk about the game that doesn't include critiquing, any sort of concept, or help questions. It's a place to discuss things. ie. "What frame do you like the most?" "What's your favorite tileset?"

I.e. not talking about the game directly or any significant way.  Those examples are talking about people's feelings rather than the game. I kind of get the impression that they just want real critiques to be the least visibile they possibly can be, which is why they won't allow critique in GD, and why the feedback forums are so fragmented. 

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

I.e. not talking about the game directly or any significant way.  Those examples are talking about people's feelings rather than the game. I kind of get the impression that they just want real critiques to be the least visibile they possibly can be, which is why they won't allow critique in GD, and why the feedback forums are so fragmented. 

Okay... then I'll just give some straight examples from the forums itself:

 

"The Real Reason We Shouldn't Trust The Lotus" https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/271343-the-real-reason-we-shouldnt-trust-the-lotus/

"First Frame And Why You Chose It"  https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/272010-first-frame-and-why-you-chose-it/

"Stalker Killed Me And Did The Scariest Thing Yet" https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/271909-stalker-killed-me-and-did-the-scariest-thing-yet/

 

All prime examples of what General Discussion is. The point is that it isn't meant to be significant, just light talk about the game. GD didn't start out as the "Post here" location and so just everyone lurks there. Everyone lurks there because they usually don't bother to try and organize their topics. Relocating a topic is not trying to hide something, it's organizing it.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Okay... then I'll just give some straight examples from the forums itself:

 

"The Real Reason We Shouldn't Trust The Lotus" https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/271343-the-real-reason-we-shouldnt-trust-the-lotus/

"First Frame And Why You Chose It"  https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/272010-first-frame-and-why-you-chose-it/

"Stalker Killed Me And Did The Scariest Thing Yet" https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/271909-stalker-killed-me-and-did-the-scariest-thing-yet/

 

All prime examples of what General Discussion is. The point is that it isn't meant to be significant, just light talk about the game. GD didn't start out as the "Post here" location and so just everyone lurks there. Everyone lurks there because they usually don't bother to try and organize their topics. Relocating a topic is not trying to hide something, it's organizing it.

Example =/= definition.  Without a proper definition people are just going to keep dumping topics in GD.

 

And it is to hide it, whether by design or accident.  Just compare the two sections:

 

Because of the needlessly fragmented setup of the sub-forums of other sections, they are much less read and used. It is why people just congregate in GD and why people just dump their threads there as well.  By moving a thread critical of the game to one of these sections, they essentially kill off any real chance of exposure it might have otherwise gotten.

[Irreverent]

Don't care about Kubrows but yes about crystals.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

-snip-

Still, it needs to have a system of organization. Like talk of this would belong in "Website, Forums & Merch Store" feedback category. There you can give ideas on how to improve an obviously flawed system. I honestly cannot think of a way to equally organize everything without it being overwhelming.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Still, it needs to have a system of organization. Like talk of this would belong in "Website, Forums & Merch Store" feedback category. There you can give ideas on how to improve an obviously flawed system. I honestly cannot think of a way to equally organize everything without it being overwhelming.

You can have organization without overly-segmenting sub-forums to the point where moving a thread to them is essentially the same as killing the thread. I could come up with a better organization in like 5 minutes.

[AnatharsWrath]

i would not mind the 100k credit cost of the health thingies from the market as much.

But when you blow anywhere from 100 to 800k credits to rank up mods like link shields it definitely puts a hurt on the credit wallet.

Of course you cant do that all too much as you only have so many cores.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

i would not mind the 100k credit cost of the health thingies from the market as much.

But when you blow anywhere from 100 to 800k credits to rank up mods like link shields it definitely puts a hurt on the credit wallet.

Of course you cant do that all too much as you only have so many cores.

Two credit-rewarding alerts per day will pay for the pet food AND leave you with more money than you started with. If you can't do two alerts a day then don't use a Kubro.