Would You An Oberon?

[Zeitzbach]

I do not have one, and without having one, I had times where the projectile reaches the player after they have been downed from a shield-bypassing damage source (when they are on low health as well), which is why I prefer the projectile to be quicker than it is now. 

 

In fact, why not make the projectile speed faster as the player ranks up his/her Renewal? That would make sense. 

 

Everything scaling isn't a great choice. If a projectile speed can scale up or down, it will then be affected by the Power Multiplier and one way or another, it will make building an Oberon more tedious.

 

Also, you should be asking why they are low on health when you are casting Renewal. I always cast it the moment anyone lose more than 20% hp because with Fleeting Expertise, darn thing becomes a 15+ second regen. You can't treat HoT the same way burst heal works.

 

And BTW -> Uranus, Stephano -> Interception giving me Natural Talent once every 30 minutes.

 

 

I've heard people call handspring and similar mods bandaid mods because they kind of are as those are things that should be skill based. But natural talent? That has a legitimate use and can't really be connected to skill. Never heard anyone hate on it. I use it for some builds.

 

Everyone will call anything a band-aid mod if they want it into the build but has no slot for it.

[Renegade343]

Everything scaling isn't a great choice. If a projectile speed can scale up or down, it will then be affected by the Power Multiplier and one way or another, it will make building an Oberon more tedious.

 

Also, you should be asking why they are low on health when you are casting Renewal. I always cast it the moment anyone lose more than 20% hp because with Fleeting Expertise, darn thing becomes a 15+ second regen. You can't treat HoT the same way burst heal works.

 

And BTW -> Uranus, Stephano -> Interception giving me Natural Talent once every 30 minutes.

Well, I did not expect that one time where an Eviscerator managed to hit a player and making the player gain a Slash status effect when the player was on around 50% health (I was busy trying to fend off another corridor from enemies). 

 

And the other time during the Mutalist Ospreys introduction where three clouds suddenly stacked on another player. And a few more after that (but that was due to players just constantly meleeing without checking their surroundings for a bit). 

 

We could make the projectile speed increase not modifiable by any Warframe Power altering mods (after all, a few Warframe power element scaling are not affected by Warframe Power altering mods). 

Edited July 24, 2014 by Renegade343

[StinkyPygmy]

Everything scaling isn't a great choice. If a projectile speed can scale up or down, it will then be affected by the Power Multiplier and one way or another, it will make building an Oberon more tedious.

 

Also, you should be asking why they are low on health when you are casting Renewal. I always cast it the moment anyone lose more than 20% hp because with Fleeting Expertise, darn thing becomes a 15+ second regen. You can't treat HoT the same way burst heal works.

 

And BTW -> Uranus, Stephano -> Interception giving me Natural Talent once every 30 minutes.

 

 

 

Everyone will call anything a band-aid mod if they want it into the build but has no slot for it.

Truth, N Tdrops like rain in interception. I recall when only the G3 could drop it. I have like 30 of them.

 

lol, thats some backwards logic. I have limited mod space and anymod I cant fit is pointless?

Glad I havnt encountered that kind of stupidity.

[Zeitzbach]

Well, I did not expect one time where an Eviscerator managed to hit a player and making the player gain a Slash status effect when the player was on around 50% health (I was busy trying to fend off another corridor from enemies). 

 

And the other time during the Mutalist Ospreys introduction where three clouds suddenly stacked on another player. And a few more after that (but that was due to players just constantly meleeing without checking their surroundings for a bit). 

 

The first one could easily be avoiding if you do the Dash jump and hold ctrl so you can cast renewal while also sliding into cover. Player trick.

 

The 2nd one is the player fault because Ospreys don't just charge 24/7 and you can jump out of cloud really fast anyway. Awareness Check.

 

lol, thats some backwards logic. I have limited mod space and anymod I cant fit is pointless?

Glad I havnt encountered that kind of stupidity.

 

It's the same thing as.

 

"It killed me so it's OP"

"My gun didn't work here so it's badly designed"

 

Just the same QQ stuffs.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Zeitzbach

[Kaokasalis]

What if renewal was able to heal downed players?

[Zeitzbach]

What if renewal was able to heal downed players?

 

They removed it because it could res when it was bugged.

[Renegade343]

The first one could easily be avoiding if you do the Dash jump and hold ctrl so you can cash renewal while also sliding into cover. Player trick.

Not me. The player. The player got the Eviscerator Slash status effect, and got downed before the healing projectile got to the player. 

[Zeitzbach]

Not me. The player. The player got the Eviscerator Slash status effect, and got downed before the healing projectile got to the player. 

 

Because you waited for them to get down to half before healing them and that he didn't take cover when his shield was down?

 

These are mistakes made by player. It had nothing to do with the Renewal being meh. The only really meh part of it is that the heal doesn't heal by percentage or doesn't offer some kind of reduction aura when it is active. Teammate dying before it reached them could easily be avoided by the players themselves.

[Renegade343]

Because you waited for them to get down to half before healing them and that he didn't take cover when his shield was down?

 

These are mistakes made by player. It had nothing to do with the Renewal being meh. The only really meh part of it is that the heal doesn't heal by percentage or doesn't offer some kind of reduction aura when it is active. Teammate dying before it reached them could easily be avoided by the players themselves.

The player was already at 50% health, and my own way of determining when to use Renewal is when the player is at around 25% of maximum health remaining, or when there is a sudden huge dip in health. First tick of Slash status effect dropped his health by 10% of maximum health, I cast Renewal (with some animation time before the healing projectiles spawn) since I saw the huge dip in health, which by then takes the player down to 20% of maximum health. Projectile reaches the player in around two to three seconds, in which the player is already downed. 

 

I think a small projectile speed increase would be necessary, just to make Renewal a bit more tolerable. 

[Zeitzbach]

That's why you add natural talent if you want to cast it at lower health than usual. Again, the thing is a REGEN, you're not supposed to just wait and cast like it was Trinity's Blessing. You leave it up and wait for it to do its work. Getting hit doesn't disable it. It only disables itself when you are fully healed. There is absolutely no reason not to use it when anyone is below 75% beside Equilibrium (health orb to energy) and "not enough energy."

 

No matter how much you try to blame the Renewal for being "too slow", the main reason why this mistake happened was believing that a regen should be used the same way as instant burst heals do.

[Renegade343]

That's why you add natural talent if you want to cast it at lower health than usual. Again, the thing is a REGEN, you're not supposed to just wait and cast like it was Trinity's Blessing. You leave it up and wait for it to do its work. Getting hit doesn't disable it. It only disables itself when you are fully healed. There is absolutely no reason not to use it when anyone is below 75% beside Equilibrium (health orb to energy) and "not enough energy."

 

No matter how much you try to blame the Renewal for being "too slow", the main reason why this mistake happened was believing that a regen should be used the same way as instant burst heals do.

No, I know how it works. The projectile feels and is a bit too slow. If anything, I think an increase to around 70 m/s would be at least more tolerable.

 

And 75% health would result in some wasted health, even with maxed out Renewal with any Warframe Power altering mods. 

[Zeitzbach]

No, I know how it works. The projectile feels and is a bit too slow. If anything, I think an increase to around 70 m/s would be at least more tolerable.

 

And 75% health would result in some wasted health, even with maxed out Renewal with any Warframe Power altering mods. 

 

It's already insanely fast with Natural Talent and it's not that slow either without it. It's only slow if you are camping a door or your friend decided to fight somewhere 4-5 rooms away.

 

And no, it wouldn't result in too much healing wasted. Intensify + Fleeting expertise = 260 Hp after 16 seconds. That's 16 hp ish per second. My oberon with rank 8 Vitality has 825 health = about 620 hp at 75%. 205 hp needs healing = 13 seconds to heal to full. If you don't get hit at all for the next 16 seconds, great but any hit = +3 or +4 to amount of time needed. A single hit will make it more than fully used.

 

Not to mention with huge efficiency, you shouldn't be stingy to begin with. I cast the darn thing over and over even when it's only half way through. Is it a waste? Maybe but for the sake of having it always active, it needs to be done. What kind of healer complains that a person isn't dead enough yet to be healed? Healer is supposed to play with "better safe than sorry" not "Either near dead or gtfo"

Edited July 24, 2014 by Zeitzbach

[Renegade343]

It's already insanely fast with Natural Talent and it's not that slow either without it. It's only slow if you are camping a door or your friend decided to fight somewhere 4-5 rooms away.

 

And no, it wouldn't result in too much healing wasted. Intensify + Fleeting expertise = 260 Hp after 16 seconds. That's 16 hp ish per second. My oberon with rank 8 Vitality has 825 health = about 620 hp at 75%. 205 hp needs healing = 13 seconds to heal to full. If you don't get hit at all for the next 16 seconds, great but any hit = +3 or +4 to amount of time needed. A single hit will make it more than fully used.

 

Not to mention with huge efficiency, you shouldn't be stingy to begin with. I cast the darn thing over and over even when it's only half way through. Is it a waste? Maybe but for the sake of having it always active, it needs to be done. What kind of healer complains that a person isn't dead enough yet to be healed? Healer is supposed to play with "better safe than sorry" not "Either near dead or gtfo"

Oberon also has other roles than being a pure healer, so maximum efficient energy management to healing efficiency to powers balance would be wise. Just saying. 

[Zeitzbach]

Oberon also has other roles than being a pure healer, so maximum efficient energy management to healing efficiency to powers balance would be wise. Just saying. 

 

His 1 does minimal damage

His 2 is useless

His 3 is the only somewhat useful skill that isn't they great later

and his 4 has crap damage so just use it for the CC that doesn't scale.

 

If you try to min-max him around his 1 2 and 4 damage as well, you're just wasting his mod slots. Fleeting + Streamline for 75% efficiency and Stretch for Reckoning's CC range are the only thing really mandatory to make him easily playable anywhere. I only added Intensify cause I had too many slots left (and somewhat stronger heal). To try and make him a power damage dealer wouldn't be wise, just saying.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Zeitzbach

[Renegade343]

His 1 does minimal damage

His 2 is useless

His 3 is the only somewhat useful skill that isn't they great later

and his 4 has crap damage so just use it for the CC that doesn't scale.

 

If you try to min-max him around his 1 2 and 4 damage as well, you're just wasting his mod slots. Fleeting + Streamline for 75% efficiency and Stretch for Reckoning's CC range are the only thing really mandatory to make him easily playable anywhere. I only added Intensify cause I had too many slots left (and somewhat stronger heal). To try and make him a power damage dealer wouldn't be wise, just saying.

I am not trying to do min-maxing, but more on making sure all of his abilities be viable in one way or the other just to deal with any probabilities: 

 

Smite: Stagger effect is useful for stopping a powerful enemy for one to two seconds to kill it, if it pins down anyone. 

Hallowed Ground: Stacking a few on top of each other would make for a good enemy softener. 

Renewal: For when hairy situations concerning low health rises.

Reckoning: Quick knockdown for CC and self/team repositioning.

 

Slapping on Continuity, Stretch and Streamline and Intensify would be enough to take him quite a bit with his powers (and weapons).  

[Zeitzbach]

I am not trying to do min-maxing, but more on making sure all of his abilities be viable in one way or the other just to deal with any probabilities: 

 

Smite: Stagger effect is useful for stopping a powerful enemy for one to two seconds to kill it, if it pins down anyone. 

 

Reckoning already does it better, with more damage and range and reliability and longer CC period.

 

Hallowed Ground: Stacking a few on top of each other would make for a good enemy softener. 

 

Takes too long. Just shoot them in the face. Only works on lower level targets too.

 

Slapping on Continuity, Stretch and Streamline and Intensify would be enough to take him quite a bit with his powers (and weapons).  

 

"Abit" is probably "up to lv 10" for Smite and "Lv 5 defense stage" for hollowed ground. Trying to make those ability useful was the reason why your 3 isn't as effectiev as usual. Not to mention the lack of mentioning in Fleeting Expertise can explain why you're so stingy.

 

So no, just gut those 2 slots. The moment I saw that smite only "stagger' and 2 is a DoT, I Forma'd those 2 slots immediately.

[Renegade343]

"Abit" is probably "up to lv 10" for Smite and "Lv 5 defense stage" for hollowed ground. Trying to make those ability useful was the reason why your 3 isn't as effectiev as usual. Not to mention the lack of mentioning in Fleeting Expertise can explain why you're so stingy.

 

So no, just gut those 2 slots. The moment I saw that smite only "stagger' and 2 is a DoT, I Forma'd those 2 slots immediately.

Smite can be a lifesaver with the staggers if used correctly (stalling heavy units and Eximus from attacking, for instance). 

 

Hallowed Ground will still be useful as an enemy softener up to Wave 25-30. 

 

And I was not talking nor criticising about how much Renewal heals or healing over time, I am criticising the quite slow projectile speed. If initial projectile speed is increased to around 65 m/s (same as a plasma projectile speed) to 75 m/s, then it would be one improvement to Renewal. 

[Zeitzbach]

Smite can be a lifesaver with the staggers if used correctly (stalling heavy units and Eximus from attacking, for instance). 

 

Just use Reckoning for that. Smite is pointless. Survival post-20 will have more than one heavy around with some snipers. Reckoning cover a whole 20+ m. Smite cover a couple of targets. Pretty obvious what should be used.

 

Hallowed Ground will still be useful as an enemy softener up to Wave 25-30. 

 

So does reckoning then proceed to use Punch through to kill everything. Also only work against infected because the long range target will be shooting you outside of Hallowed's range.

 

And I was not talking nor criticising about how much Renewal heals or healing over time, I am criticising the quite slow projectile speed. If initial projectile speed is increased to around 65 m/s (same as a plasma projectile speed) to 75 m/s, then it would be one improvement to Renewal. 

 

Take the slot you used for Smite or Hallowed ground and replace it with Natural Talent.

 

Projectile speed problem solved.

 

Remove Smite and Hallowed ground --> A lot more slot open -> More mod.

 

More problems solved.

[Renegade343]

Take the slot you used for Smite or Hallowed ground and replace it with Natural Talent.

 

Projectile speed problem solved.

 

Remove Smite and Hallowed ground --> A lot more slot open -> More mod.

 

More problems solved.

I may think about the first point, but your second point does not solve any problems I have with the abilities. 

[Zeitzbach]

I may think about the first point, but your second point does not solve any problems I have with the abilities. 

 

Your problem isn't overhealing, it's being stingy.

 

Get fleeting Expertise and don't waste energy on Smite and Hallowed ground. Do that and you won't mind over healing a tiny portion for barely any energy cost. Get Rage as well since you're a healer anyway and enjoy infinite energy. I removed my Redirection purely for Rage - Quick thinking healer purpose.

[Renegade343]

Your problem isn't overhealing, it's being stingy.

 

Get fleeting Expertise and don't waste energy on Smite and Hallowed ground. Do that and you won't mind over healing a tiny portion for barely any energy cost. Get Rage as well since you're a healer anyway and enjoy infinite energy. I removed my Redirection purely for Rage - Quick thinking healer purpose.

I thought I written down quite clearly Oberon is not a pure healer. 

 

And I do care about over-healing so that the potential energy used can be used in a more better purpose. 

 

Smite and Hallowed Ground is useful in their own ways, and I do see their potential in late-game (maybe not so much of Hallowed Ground [although stacking a few would still be alright], but more on Smite).

[Zeitzbach]

I thought I written down quite clearly Oberon is not a pure healer. 

 

And I do care about over-healing so that the potential energy used can be used in a more better purpose. 

 

Smite and Hallowed Ground is useful in their own ways, and I do see their potential in late-game (maybe not so much of Hallowed Ground [although stacking a few would still be alright], but more on Smite).

 

It's not pure healing. It's just 1 and 2 are too pointless to be used. Smite "potential" is terribly clouded by Reckoning's CC. There's no reason to use it over Reckoning.

 

Just keep the regen aura up and 4 -> M1 -> 4 -> M1. Your playstyle is what holding you down, not the game.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Zeitzbach

[Varzy]

Renewal should definitely heal more, but it shouldn't be an instant heal, instant heal is Trinity's job. Oberon fills the role of Offensive Support more than medic, and so should be a high Heal Over Time that doesn't cancel when taking damage or when health become full. (These are terrible mechanics and I don't understand why DE went with them :S) Using Renewal should let players push through excess damage in times of trouble. The current projectile effect should remain to encourage Oberon and his allies to stay close together.

 

Here's an idea: Renewal's Heal per second increases depending on how many allies are affected by Renewal. Say Renewal heals a total of 300+X health over it's duration. X health = 300("Players under effect of Renewal"/"Total players in match").

 

This would mean if you're playing Solo you're guaranteed to get the full benefit, as "Players Affected"/"Total players"= 1/1

 

 

As for Status removal, Renewal would be great at it, but I've always been very fond of the idea of having Hallowed Ground erase procs. If Renewal Healed procs only once upon activation, while Hallowed Ground prevented procs as long as you were standing on it, I could really get behind it. Healing procs is something that Oberon is in a position to do wonderfully.

[Renegade343]

It's not pure healing. It's just 1 and 2 are too pointless to be used. Smite "potential" is terribly clouded by Reckoning's CC. There's no reason to use it over Reckoning.

Nothing is too pointless to be used. All it needs is some creativity and tactics to make it shine. 

[Zeitzbach]

Nothing is too pointless to be used. All it needs is some creativity and tactics to make it shine. 

 

Ash Shuriken outside Conclave.

 

Have fun.