The Ethics Of Kubrows: Why Genetic Deterioration Crosses A Moral Line.

[Hallowieners]

Do you work for PETA by any chance? 

[zergla]

But making the entire Grineer empire die a slow and horrible death from DNA degradation is fine? Cold-blooded mass murder is fine? Those corpus crewmen might have families that rely on them for income, is it fine to slaughter them?

In real life all of these would be despicable actions, but, like a few people above me have pointed out, this is a video-game. None of the entities in it are real and they can't feel or think anything beyond what they were programmed to. If the kubrows were living, thinking beings you might have a point, but they aren't.

Are you hating J.K Rowling for torturing the characters in her books? Are you angry with George Lucas because he killed millions of people in his movies?

Edited July 28, 2014 by zergla

[Varzy]

I totally agree. It's even more insidious than that, though, even if I really doubt DE intended it to be this bad.

The kubrows are designed to be sick and defective, dependant on Tenno care. That's messed up. But worse, their treatment costs 100k every two weeks. Our dogs have been poisoned and are being held hostage for ransom in this system.

Seriously, DE, change it. Make loyalty degrade daily, and DNA degrade when killed in battle. Then, have stabilisers be used to restore the DNA, but also be able to push that threshold to 100% bonus health.

[Xeverous]

@Everyone who is freaking out about this:

4 Words: THIS. IS. A. GAME. If this ever happens in RL you have everyone's permission to freak out. But for the sake of a GAME, knock it off wouldya?

[Renegade343]

@Everyone who is freaking out about this:

4 Words: THIS. IS. A. GAME. If this ever happens in RL you have everyone's permission to freak out. But for the sake of a GAME, knock it off wouldya?

Well, do you not allow players to get emotionally attached to a game?

 

True, while it is a game, and thus by reason, we should not care too much, but we do have to consider different players as well. By doing so, DE(L) can show that they care for the maximum categories of players, and most players would be happy about it (and show potential shareholders that DE(L) cares about CSR, potentially boosting its share capital, so more cash for DE(L) to use to improve Warframe). 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Here is the solution:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/276431-for-de-kubro-dna-stabilizers-easy-fix/

[_Raiklar_]

Jesus Christ its a @(*()$ video game get over yourself.

[PaxEthenica]

You get over your butt. By which I mean, your mom. By which I mean, my mom. By which I mean, stop banging my mom!

Edited July 28, 2014 by PaxEthenica

[Xeverous]

Well, do you not allow players to get emotionally attached to a game?

 

True, while it is a game, and thus by reason, we should not care too much, but we do have to consider different players as well. By doing so, DE(L) can show that they care for the maximum categories of players, and most players would be happy about it (and show potential shareholders that DE(L) cares about CSR, potentially boosting its share capital, so more cash for DE(L) to use to improve Warframe). 

I'm fine with players getting emotionally attached to a game, but seriously, isn't this a bit extreme?

[Renegade343]

I'm fine with players getting emotionally attached to a game, but seriously, isn't this a bit extreme?

The reasoning behind it in this thread may be a tad bit extreme, but the core concept of the current Kubrow care mechanism does has its flaws, which the original poster did point out (albeit not directly and very hidden).

[knightsofsanghelios]

I'm fine with players getting emotionally attached to a game, but seriously, isn't this a bit extreme?

[terrible pun incoming] By any chance would you say that it's digital extreme?

[knightsofsanghelios]

The reasoning behind it in this thread may be a tad bit extreme, but the core concept of the current Kubrow care mechanism does has its flaws, which the original poster did point out (albeit not directly and very hidden).

The care mechanism is flawed from a gameplay perspective, however, the problem with the OP is that he objects to it on a moral basis rather than on a (more reasonable) mechanical basis. It is silly to get all huffy about the ethics concerning a VIDEO GAME.

Edited July 28, 2014 by knightsofsanghelios

[_Raiklar_]

You get over your butt. By which I mean, your mom. By which I mean, my mom. By which I mean, stop banging my mom!

I had to how else were you supose to get here. Oh i'm sorry you didn't know your dad wasn't your dad. 

[WizardreousWalrus]

May I try and use your logic here?

Say a woman gives birth to a baby with a horrifyingly debilitating disease that causes them to not have arms, and causes their brain to deteriorate every day. Does that mean that she gave birth to a helpless monster, and that it should be killed to be put out of its misery?

Sure, it's a rough metaphor, but the point stands. And, if you've ever seen how happy the Kubrow is as a puppy, you'd know it doesn't mind having chronic heart failures every day.

[_Raiklar_]

May I try and use your logic here?

Say a woman gives birth to a baby with a horrifyingly debilitating disease that causes them to not have arms, and causes their brain to deteriorate every day. Does that mean that she gave birth to a helpless monster, and that it should be killed to be put out of its misery?

Sure, it's a rough metaphor, but the point stands. And, if you've ever seen how happy the Kubrow is as a puppy, you'd know it doesn't mind having chronic heart failures every day.

in some situations i've know people and i'm sure the same can be said about pets in the real world and the gaming world. to quote " its not the quantity of life its the quality of life that make the difference." As my grand mother said on her death bed.

[xGryphus]

Somebody is overreacting.
Genetic Stability and DNA Stabilizers are only empty terms created for a system that limits accessibility of Kubrows to more advanced players. There is no ethics in here - only pure mechanics. If it's against your, improperly projected, personal beliefs then nobody forces you to keep your Kubrow so stop forcing your convictions onto others.
At the end of the day it's a game. Just a game...

[Naqel]

Warframe in general is a "being a $&*^" simulator, and one with numerous horrible design decisions as far as gameplay goes.

[TrashSpider]

>.> its friggin pixel, people these days need to grow a thicker skin seriously. 

[Sinistro6]

OP forgot to mention you murdered your Kubrow's entire family, and utterly destroyed their homes in search for eggs, and Bite.

 

He also forgot that the entire Imprint system promotes racial bigotry and eugenics.

 

Not cool, bro. 

[Qloshae]

Well, DE clearly took an ethical stance in the case of how 'unethical' coloring kubrows would be, so why wouldn't it be valid for us to do the same with something far worse than to force your kubrow to fulfill your creative demands?

 

Simply the fact that the only way to get rid of a kubrow is to let them slowly deteriorate. Doing anything of the kind to a human would be enough for you to never see the light of day again. I mean, it would basically be "sorry, we are out of space so we'll stop feeding you until you die so we can put someone new here".

Also, this whole genetic degradation reminds me of an episode in The Blacklist where a guy injects people with a highly deadly strain of a virus that has been modified to not spread and the only way for them to live is to do what he says in exchange for an injection that would let them live for 24 more hours. Now there we have slavery.

 

So, DE is against coloring your kubrow, but have nothing against making us choose between torture or slavery.

DE either needs to leave the ethical battle or be consistent.

[Wyzilla]

Amazingly angry right now (Mirage quest, another line crossed, another post to be made elsewhere), but fortunately it's helped thoughts crystallize into little slivers of hate-fueled philosophy. Let's talk ethics and animals, shall we?

Did you know that animals can't give consent? Did you also know that breeding animals that you know will turn out with health problems and painful, debilitating, or lethal genetic defects is illegal in several countries, states, and provinces? Did you know that such actions are pretty much recognized as animal abuse the world over, and that the only people who don't think that way are people who run puppy mills and unregulated purebreeding outfits? Y'know, monsters.

Guess what the game has turned us into?

Now, I'm not here argue that the Tenno are supposed to be some pure, unsullied warrior monks. The entire premise of gameplay is that you kill people for money (and not much money, either...), use that (paltry amount of) money to make or buy things to kill more people, and become a blood-drenched avatar of murder and violence. I recognize that, I respect that, I am amused by that whenever Lotus talks to me about some 'balance' that I don't care about because I'm too busy painting my warframe just the loveliest shades of dark, greasy red. But that's all to do with people, or things that used to be people. It's to do with volition, and choice, and fate, and poor schlubs being in the wrong place at the wrong time, fighting the wrong gosh darned Tenno who is laughing though has no mouth. That is about me killing things that through their choices or instinct (yes, I'm including the feral Kubrows in this) are in my way and must be removed.

But now I've done something that I don't think I can be okay with. I've brought a life into this world who, every single day, will get sicker and sicker until her death, unless I intervene. Who, through instinct, will kill with me, yet is smart enough to know that I am not to be trusted if I get them grievously wounded. I've commited animal abuse against something that, unless I was specifically targeting her, would never have entered her life and condemned her to an inevitable, and undoubtedly miserable, obviously painful death of neglect and cruel isolation, and a life of pain and fear. There is no volition! There were no choices! Her instincts have not put her before my blade! I've become a goddamned monster, and it isn't right! IT! ISN'T! RIGHT!

The Kubrow system, as it is now, is not a battle companion... it's a goddamn animal abuse simulator!

 

-slow clap-

 

10/10, Troll of the Year material.

 

EDIT

 

Everyone arguing with this guy, you're bloody morons, but funny ones at that. This should have been a fairly obvious troll, but that people are taking him seriously makes it hilarious. Reminds me of the good 'ol days of trolling.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Wyzilla

[PaxEthenica]

-slow clap-

 

10/10, Troll of the Year material.

 

EDIT

 

Everyone arguing with this guy, you're bloody morons, but funny ones at that. This should have been a fairly obvious troll, but that people are taking him seriously makes it hilarious. Reminds me of the good 'ol days of trolling.

The only reason I wasn't a Goon back in day was because I was poor. Also, everything that the Goons touched eventually became S#&$. ;D

[SilverBones]

Both you and I have apparently been abused by our parents, because they committed the grievous crime of creating an animal afflicted with a lethal and debilitating genetic defect commonly known as mortality. 

 

This would explain my crippling emotional issues.

 

This thread has run it course. There is too much blurring the line of an in-game, lore-based debate and personal attacks based on the treatment of real-life animals, leading to some heated words and general toxicity.

 

Locking up.