Upcoming Color Customization Fix (Planned For Hotfix 14.0.9)

[AedonMM]

Hahah nice!

too bad it totally killed the colour I used that looked like the golden prime ):

I hope there is another one I can use though!

[AedonMM]

Why dont they add a button to switch between the before and after colour saturation ''fix'' ?

I guess it would probably eliminate the point of some colours though....

[AZAG0TH]

Really hoping for an official response today on this....  

 

I know someone mentioned some of the Devs were at SDComicCon and there was a DDOS attack this weekend, but I still have a foul taste in my mouth about colorpacks that I tested the look of on my warframes before buying suddenly being completely different than they were before.  

 

Like I said earlier Steve I understand your reasoning for the fix - I just don't like that things that I paid actual money for are no longer the same as they were when I bought them.

 

Are you going to supply gamma versions to everyone that purchased other palettes as well (especially the Tenno - since that one seems the most affected)?  If not, are we going to get reimbursed for the purchases?  Or are we supposed to grin and bear it? (Hope not because I will probably stop spending anything on this game since there would be no reason to believe it wouldn't be changed later).

 

I said in another topic that the massive changes in palettes here are akin to buying a house and then one day, a year later, coming home to find the realtor there as he finished painting it a 'better' color than the one you bought.  And that is really how I feel about this.  I would never have bought the Tenno Color Pallette if it looked as though it does now and I honestly am feeling a bit ripped off at this point. :(

[Crewell]

Yeah that one looks nicer before. People can't seem to keep it in their head this game is in beta

The beta arvuement doesn't carry much water. First if it is a beta, they charged everyone on PS4 for an unfinished game (to my knowledge it was not sold as a preorder with beta access). Second it has been 1 1/2 years since open beta started. There are other things I could point out that are inconsistent with normal betas, but hopefully the point carries.

I'm fine with an evolving game, but it's a stretch to say the game is a beta still outside of arbitrarily calling it one. The game is not being tested anymore it's being updated like any other evolving online game.

[AZAG0TH]

People can't seem to keep it in their head this game is in beta....

A game stops being a beta as soon as a cash shop opens.  Period.

I can call my SUV a horse, that doesn't make it one.

[AM-Bunny]

Really hoping for an official response today on this....  

 

I know someone mentioned some of the Devs were at SDComicCon and there was a DDOS attack this weekend, but I still have a foul taste in my mouth about colorpacks that I tested the look of on my warframes before buying suddenly being completely different than they were before.  

 

Like I said earlier Steve I understand your reasoning for the fix - I just don't like that things that I paid actual money for are no longer the same as they were when I bought them.

 

Are you going to supply gamma versions to everyone that purchased other palettes as well (especially the Tenno - since that one seems the most affected)?  If not, are we going to get reimbursed for the purchases?  Or are we supposed to grin and bear it? (Hope not because I will probably stop spending anything on this game since there would be no reason to believe it wouldn't be changed later).

 

I said in another topic that the massive changes in palettes here are akin to buying a house and then one day, a year later, coming home to find the realtor there as he finished painting it a 'better' color than the one you bought.  And that is really how I feel about this.  I would never have bought the Tenno Color Pallette if it looked as though it does now and I honestly am feeling a bit ripped off at this point. :(

Although I never have, I'm sure there's some schmuck out there that actually buys new weapons with plat. Should * they* be reimbursed every time there's a buff or a nerf? After all it's different from what they paid for. And what about when they tweak cosmetic armour positioning and such. Everyone that bought armour should be reimbursed? With that line of thought devs would never be able to alter anything without dishing out a million plat to people.

[AZAG0TH]

Although I never have, I'm sure there's some schmuck out there that actually buys new weapons with plat. Should * they* be reimbursed every time there's a buff or a nerf? After all it's different from what they paid for. And what about when they tweak cosmetic armour positioning and such. Everyone that bought armour should be reimbursed? With that line of thought devs would never be able to alter anything without dishing out a million plat to people.

 

If a weapon is completely changed or made useless?  Honestly yeah, IMO they should, but I realize that some won't agree with that.  

 

To make another analogy major weapon/warframe nerfs are like buying a car and then having the seller come and take your tires or transmission the week after.   It's not the thing you bought anymore and you wouldn't be happy about it.  Now, if he stopped by and gave you a spare tire he found in the garage that would be a welcome 'buff'.

 

In a developing game small tweaks are fine, and to be expected, but grand sweeping changes like this are not.  These color changes make the palettes we bought completely different.

 

Armor placement tweaking? No, as they actually make things better.  This fix just made things different.

 

As for the 'shelling out a million plat' comment - I said re-imbursement was an option - it's not my ideal option - which is to give the purchasers of color palettes the colors they purchased back in alternate 'gamma' palettes..  They can keep the 'new and improved ones' as far as I am concerned and people who want those can buy them.  Also, (to play devil's advocate) giving plat away doesn't really cost DE any money on their end, so re-imbursement is actually an option for them if you think about it.

 

Edit: also, if they did offer re-imbursement I will add that I woudn't expect to keep the palette I had bought previously.  They can take the "fixed" palette away and give me my plat back so I can buy a palette that I like after the changes.

Edited July 28, 2014 by AZAG0TH

[AM-Bunny]

If a weapon is completely changed or made useless?  Honestly yeah, IMO they should, but I realize that some won't agree with that.  

 

To make another analogy major weapon/warframe nerfs are like buying a car and then having the seller come and take your tires or transmission the week after.   It's not the thing you bought anymore and you wouldn't be happy about it.  Now, if he stopped by and gave you a spare tire he found in the garage that would be a welcome 'buff'.

 

In a developing game small tweaks are fine, and to be expected, but grand sweeping changes like this are not.  These color changes make the palettes we bought completely different.

 

Armor placement tweaking? No, as they actually make things better.  This fix just made things different.

 

As for the 'shelling out a million plat' comment - I said re-imbursement was an option - it's not my ideal option - which is to give the purchasers of color palettes the colors they purchased back in alternate 'gamma' palettes..  They can keep the 'new and improved ones' as far as I am concerned and people who want those can buy them.  Also, (to play devil's advocate) giving plat away doesn't really cost DE any money on their end, so re-imbursement is actually an option for them if you think about it.

 

Edit: also, if they did offer re-imbursement I will add that I woudn't expect to keep the palette I had bought previously.  They can take the "fixed" palette away and give me my plat back so I can buy a palette that I like after the changes.

 

I love how your analogies are "buying a house" and "buying a car" and other things that cost thousands and thousands of dollars. With the new gamma palette and playing around with some other shades you can achieve a look that is extremely close to your old one. It's not a big deal.

 

Steve already explained why he made the changes, and it was in an honest attempt to improve the game in the long run. I agree with his reasoning, and the way the old colours worked (as more of an overlay vs an absolute colour) was a problem. An attempt was also made to satisfy the people that were unhappy with the changes by giving out a free palette with many colours similar to the ones that were removed.

 

For the record, I do agree with you that the new colours are positively hideous, and I'm unhappy with how my warframes look now as well. That being said, I support decisions that are made in an attempt to improve the game's long term health, and I'm glad that DE is willing to face the wrath of their players to try and fix a broken engine.

[AZAG0TH]

@AM-Bunny

Principle is the same no matter the $ amount.  Maybe $5 isn't that much to you.  It is to some.  Don't like cars or houses?  Ok, you go to McDonalds drive-thru, and order a chicken sandwich.  You get home and realize you got a Big Mac.  You call McDonalds to complain and the manager says 'eh, what's the difference, they're both meat'.  The difference is you paid for one thing and got something else.  Result is the same: The customer is not happy & maybe next time they'll go to Wendy's instead.

 

The fact of the matter is, I bought something based on what it was and it was completely changed after the fact.  I don't want it after the change and if I had known it was going to be changed I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.  And for the record the Tenno pack's old colors are not in the Gamma Palette - Not even close.

 

I acknowledged that I totally understood why Steve made the changes.  I just disagree with the way DE tried to appease the customers.  One pack does not contain colors that all the buy-able packs did.  It doesn't even come close.  They should either take back the packs we bought and give us all a refund (those that like the new colors can easily re-buy them) or give the people who bought color palettes the actual color palettes we bought back.

Edited July 29, 2014 by AZAG0TH

[OniDax]

Again, the two left columns are too dark, and DE needs to fix this. At least they could brighten the inner one. But I guess they are just going to ignore any constructive criticism of this issue.

[Sidathe]

Again, the two left columns are too dark, and DE needs to fix this. At least they could brighten the inner one. But I guess they are just going to ignore any constructive criticism of this issue.

Boy, you're not passive aggressive at all.

[-Tzek4-]

. i enjoy hearing about this change but after returning after a vacation it seems the colors are all off completely, the colors seem Way too saturated/high contrast and do not match in any way the original colors and alot of the "dark colors" are near black. i noticed the default colors i had for warframes/weapons where altered and matched no color pack alongside the default buttons restores the "washed out colors" and unless im wrong the tenno pack is still "washed out" with a few being over saturated and having very different shade before this change

[SJunior]

Uh, dude. You know you can still change the colors, right? Don't get all butt-hurt because they improved a long standing issue. Re adjust the colors to something you like. Also, if you are gonna stop playing a game with amazing graphics, gameplay, and customization besides the color palettes that you don't like(note you are in the vast minority)... Go ahead. Your loss.

 

Uh, dude. You know he can't change the colors to whatever he actually does like because now the all the colors were changed, Right? When /All/ The colors are in a Saturated tone, People who do not like the Saturated look, Can't actually change their colors to something they like.

 

(Unless they Have say, The Easter Pack, or Gamma. But even Gamma isn't the same. If you pick the same color you used in the middle rows of gamma, Before the hotfix, Then you'll notice it's way more darker still. So you have to put the color onto 2 tabs to the right. What if the colors you used to use were already near the right side? Too bad.)

 

Also Define 'Long Standing Issue'. I don't recall massive amounts of threads to "Fix Colors" before this happened. All I saw were the occasional "Dude, I want black energy so I can be the stalker." And, "My Energy color looks weird after they made Black energy usable."

 

Also, Butt-Hurt? He's giving Criticism for a change DE Made. Last I checked, That was the intent of the Forums. To discuss and give constructive Critique.

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Anyway, In response to this thread in general. I'd like Steve to clear up a few things. If the change was truly done to better reflect the artistic views of the artists, Then why does now, With the new color update, The default color'd look of the frames ingame, not match the official art of the frames.

 

It seems to me the only part of the fix that should have gotten in was Kubrow.

Edited July 28, 2014 by SJunior

[Leviathan-the-Envious]

Uh, dude. You know he can't change the colors to whatever he actually does like because now the all the colors were changed, Right? When /All/ The colors are in a Saturated tone, People who do not like the Saturated look, Can't actually change their colors to something they like.

 

(Unless they Have say, The Easter Pack, or Gamma. But even Gamma isn't the same. If you pick the same color you used in the middle rows of gamma, Before the hotfix, Then you'll notice it's way more darker still. So you have to put the color onto 2 tabs to the right. What if the colors you used to use were already near the right side? Too bad.)

 

Also Define 'Long Standing Issue'. I don't recall massive amounts of threads to "Fix Colors" before this happened. All I saw were the occasional "Dude, I want black energy so I can be the stalker." And, "My Energy color looks weird after they made Black energy usable."

 

Also, Butt-Hurt? He's giving Criticism for a change DE Made. Last I checked, That was the intent of the Forums. To discuss and give constructive Critique.

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Anyway, In response to this thread in general. I'd like Steve to clear up a few things. If the change was truly done to better reflect the artistic views of the artists, Then why does now, With the new color update, The default color'd look of the frames ingame, not match the official art of the frames.

 

It seems to me the only part of the fix that should have gotten in was Kubrow.

The Gamma pack is in no way close to the original classic. The middle row is more like classic's darkest row prior to this "fix". And the terrible set of blacks in the two left rows are still there. As a player who used a lot of dark colors, all of my frames came out of this fix pitch black, and that saddens me. This fix may have made some colors look better, but it removed variety, in that most dark colors are now black. And in making most dark colors black, this fix also renders Smoke colors redundant. Why buy it when you can get classic so you can have dark grays and blacks and other colors?

[(PSN)Kr0niK_VyBeZ]

Sells his ps4 and buys a pc

[DZ1JMeyer]

Again, the two left columns are too dark, and DE needs to fix this. At least they could brighten the inner one. But I guess they are just going to ignore any constructive criticism of this issue.

 

When you start throwing around phrases like "yes men" to describe people who genuinely like a thing you do not like, as you and others in this thread have done, it tends to make your criticism come across much less as "constructive" and more as "petulant".

 

Yes the palettes look different, as yes you are entitled to be displeased and make complaints; but if you want people to take your arguments as reasonable, a good first step is to restrain yourself and present your case reasonably.

 

I, personally, prefer the new color palette rendering and am quite happy with the results. I find myself using much more of the palettes now than I did before.

[StarScribe]

Bah! Days have passed, I don't see any evidence of DE actually showing any response to the part of the community that are displeased about this change. DE if what you believe is best course of action is to just wait this out in hope that everyone suddenly starts to accept new change, realize that it wont go away this easily. This has officially become a problem to many and deserves attention.

 

I for one also am not very happy about the change for the colors I have grown to love and use frequently in my warframe appearance designs. The colors I like have been snatched away from me and it leaves me in a state of great sorrow.

 

Such practice is very difficult to forgive, especially since there was no choice given or a chance for community to speak before pushing this trough. There was simply not enough information presented at the time to help the community understand what was coming, what to expect. It was way too sudden. I believe that community is entitled to a "compromise" and you should listen. There are many great ideas being presented to you, all you have to do is listen and all shall be well.

 

I hope that next time you plan on making such changes you try to consider the implications and how far they extend, who they affect, and what alternatives are prepared in case things go wrong. In this case, the "Free Gamma Palette" is simply not good enough. Give community a try-out phase first if you are unable to foresee all the possible consequences before making things final. Or at least more information, comparison details ect... to help community make more informed decisions before releasing a change.

 

I would personally like to see a toggle option between Legacy and 2.0 color palette styles instead of sliders. Sliders may somewhat break the whole design and purpose of a palette.

 

I have always had faith in DE and hope that they will continue let the community guide their artistic hand. Find this compromise and please at very least reassure the community that you will look into making it possible for both parties to be happy in this situation. Do not leave us hanging. ;_;

Edited July 29, 2014 by StarScribe

[OniDax]

When you start throwing around phrases like "yes men" to describe people who genuinely like a thing you do not like, as you and others in this thread have done, it tends to make your criticism come across much less as "constructive" and more as "petulant".

 

Yes the palettes look different, as yes you are entitled to be displeased and make complaints; but if you want people to take your arguments as reasonable, a good first step is to restrain yourself and present your case reasonably.

 

I, personally, prefer the new color palette rendering and am quite happy with the results. I find myself using much more of the palettes now than I did before.

 

No, they don't just look different. The colors in these two columns don't match the colors on the frames. They clearly don't match. So yes, when people choose to ignore the fact that those colors are wrong, yeah I'd say they're being yes-men. I have already presented my case reasonably. Multiple times, only to be criticized and labeled a whiner just because I don't agree with people like you. So please, spare me the crap. You people dismiss my, and others', logical arguments because you think the colors look good, with no regard for the fact that for these columns, the colors on the palettes don't match the colors on the frames.

Edited July 29, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[MFCC1989]

Did some repainting after the update. Don't have mirage yet

[DZ1JMeyer]

No, they don't just look different. The colors in these two columns don't match the colors on the frames. They clearly don't match. So yes, when people choose to ignore the fact that those colors are wrong, yeah I'd say they're being yes-men. I have already presented my case reasonably. Multiple times, only to be criticized and labeled a whiner just because I don't agree with people like you. So please, spare me the crap. You people dismiss my, and others', logical arguments because you think the colors look good, with no regard for the fact that for these columns, the colors on the palettes don't match the colors on the frames.

 

They didn't match the colors before, and you yourself have admitted in this thread that it could very well be the innate object tints that are too dark.

 

So no, this isn't a case of "the new colors are wrong", this is a case of "the new colors are wrong in a way you personally do not prefer to the old 'wrongness'". Preferring the current state of affairs when it came about by fixing a longstanding render error, which happened to result in a more-optimal state of affairs for me does not make me a "yes-man". The colors are wrong? They were already wrong. And before you start going on about your "logical arguments" being dismissed and criticized out-of-hand by people who are happy with the change, I've seen just as many (or more) people on your side of the argument making asses out of themselves.

 

I didn't come into this thread to tell you lot to shut up and remove your complaints, and I don't intend to dismiss measured and reasoned arguments out of hand; but the more petty assumptions you make about the oppositions' views and character, the less inclined folks in disagreement with you are going to be to listen to your "constructive criticism".

 

Which is a damned shame, because you did make some fair points earlier in the thread. Passive-aggressive behavior and name-calling makes one quick to forget this, however.

Edited July 29, 2014 by DZ1JMeyer

[Sidathe]

No, they don't just look different. The colors in these two columns don't match the colors on the frames. They clearly don't match. So yes, when people choose to ignore the fact that those colors are wrong, yeah I'd say they're being yes-men. I have already presented my case reasonably. Multiple times, only to be criticized and labeled a whiner just because I don't agree with people like you. So please, spare me the crap. You people dismiss my, and others', logical arguments because you think the colors look good, with no regard for the fact that for these columns, the colors on the palettes don't match the colors on the frames.

They'll likely be modified in time. They're probably having to go through each color swatch and work from there. 'Cause, you know, longstanding bug. We don't know how far back it goes.

[OniDax]

 

They didn't match the colors before, and you yourself have admitted in this thread that it could very well be the innate object tints that are too dark.

 

So no, this isn't a case of "the new colors are wrong", this is a case of "the new colors are wrong in a way you personally do not prefer to the old 'wrongness'". Preferring the current state of affairs when it came about by fixing a longstanding render error, which happened to result in a more-optimal state of affairs for me does not make me a "yes-man". The colors are wrong? They were already wrong. And before you start going on about your "logical arguments" being dismissed and criticized out-of-hand by people who are happy with the change, I've seen just as many (or more) people on your side of the argument making asses out of themselves.

 

I didn't come into this thread to tell you lot to shut up and remove your complaints, and I don't intend to dismiss measured and reasoned arguments out of hand; but the more petty assumptions you make about the oppositions' views and character, the less inclined folks in disagreement with you are going to be to listen to your "constructive criticism".

 

Which is a damned shame, because you did make some fair points earlier in the thread. Passive-aggressive behavior and name-calling makes one quick to forget this, however.

 

It's not the tints. I went back and checked, and it's those last two columns that look too dark. It's the colors.

[Loswaith]

Yeah that one looks nicer before. People can't seem to keep it in their head this game is in beta, and that the devs are gonna make some decisions that need tweaking(Damage, Melee, and UI are only the latest overhauls). I think most of the colors look so much better, even if they are a bit too saturated on the darker colors. This color adjustment also adds a lot more texture to the warframes from what I have seen.

Oh I'm not against them fixing a bug (they should always do so), however I have many colour profile slots that I reset back to the "default" setting (prior to the colour change), now hitting default on those actually changes the colours to look like they should (slots I didnt change have the 'new' default already), so obviously they did lighten the 'default' warframe colours in the change over, otherwise hitting default now wouldn't change those i had reset eairler. 

 

One has to ask why they didnt do that with a script for our own colour schemes as well, given there would of been no change to the frames colour as they currently were, but given the new colours for those that weren't quite happy.  Sure alot of work but thats really on DE for leaving the bug for so long as to become the 'Normal' colours.

 

A game stops being a beta as soon as a cash shop opens.  Period.

I can call my SUV a horse, that doesn't make it one.

The cash shop is funding the game and there would be no warframe (or any other game) without funding.  By your notion no game should get funding while in beta because as soon as they do it's not a beta anymore.

Honestly DE is actually more beta (reguardless of where funding is coming from) than most other "beta" games on the market (most are simply 'eairly access', dispite the beta tag).

It's beta because it is still getting sweaping changes to core features on a regular basis (or have you failed to notice these).  Sure games get patched and tweaked that are not in beta, but rarely get core fundemental changes on a regular basis (outside of an expansion pack).

Edited July 29, 2014 by Loswaith

[SJunior]

Which is a damned shame, because you did make some fair points earlier in the thread. Passive-aggressive behavior and name-calling makes one quick to forget this, however.

 

I think it's more so he just got fed up with even trying to be passive. As, In a lot of the earlier threads, Just because he, or anyone else was against the new Color change, People flipped out and completely were rude for no reason.

[AZAG0TH]

The cash shop is funding the game and there would be no warframe (or any other game) without funding.  By your notion no game should get funding while in beta because as soon as they do it's not a beta anymore.

Honestly DE is actually more beta (reguardless of where funding is coming from) than most other "beta" games on the market (most are simply 'eairly access', dispite the beta tag).

It's beta because it is still getting sweaping changes to core features on a regular basis (or have you failed to notice these).  Sure games get patched and tweaked that are not in beta, but rarely get core fundemental changes on a regular basis (outside of an expansion pack).

I'm not going to sit around overlong arguing semantics here, as really it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. But I stand by my statement and do (for whatever reason) feel the need to defend it.  

 

The word "Beta" gets thrown around far too often as an excuse when there is no other acceptable, easy, or obvious answer.  I, and many others, do no consider this game to be in Beta any more.  You obviously, do.  The use of this term has come up in many, many posts and has been discussed to death.  Honestly, I don't know what to call what state this game is in (Crowd-Sourced??)... but when money changes hands from customer to Dev - to me, it can't be called a beta anymore.  

 

I will say that sweeping changes to core features are not exclusive to betas in the digital, constantly updated world of modern gaming (recent changes to Diablo III comes to mind as an easy example).  World of Warcraft and many other MMOs and other online games evolve constantly in their life-cycle.

 

Maybe DE has some point in mind when they'll consider this game no longer in beta, but I am not privy to their plans, so I base my opinions on my own experiences.  Maybe they've already hit that point since it no longer says "Open Beta" on the login page next to the build like it used to.  It's hard to say, I wouldn't know the difference... and that's my point.

 

Obviously, we have differing opinions on this and I doubt either will change regardless of what's said here.  So I will try not to derail this further by continuing this particular discussion.

Edited July 29, 2014 by AZAG0TH