Are Kubrows Meant To Be Early-Game Or Not? (Poll)

[Davoodoo]

Everything needed for kubrow can be gotten by low lvl player including credits to craft.

 

Upkeep seems like thing added in last minute and doesnt make much sense at all. Its the only thing that prevents new players from keeping their kubrows.

[Renegade343]

When you say "Introduce at Jupiter" it implies the boss for Jupiter, not the first starting zone.  This means clearing all of the other zones to get at the boss.  This takes time.  I honestly don't know how quickly you can clear Venus, as it has been a while since I did it, and I don't know about Jupiter either.  Looking it up on the Wiki, Alad V. is the boss, so I don't know how well new players will be at taking him down.  But again, this adds time.

Clearing Venus (if I remember correctly) to the boss takes around 15-20 minutes as a new player, and clearing Jupiter took around the same time as well, so I think it would be alright. 

 

And if I recall correctly, Alad V takes around 10-15 minutes to take down as a new player (granted, I built other weaponry at that time, but I do believe that most, if not all, new players would follow around the same path). 

 

The cost of 'kubrow chow' really needs to come down, I would say to 50k, and they need to get the egg in the hands of new players faster (either a one-time egg reward for the first part of the Kubrow mission or making the drop rate more accessible to all of the player-base, as right now it is horribly random for some and overly easy for others).  If the new player uses platinum for speeding the incubation, great!  More income for DE(L)!  If they don't, that's great too!  They will spend time playing, but won't look too badly at the delay as they are still accomplishing something, ie, incubating their pet. 

The guaranteed egg drop mechanism is already suggested and proposed in my thread about improving the quest Howl of the Kubrow, to strike a balance between the time taken to play the quest and getting the reward to proceed. And I did suggest a increase in chance to drop a Kubrow egg from a destroyed den in that thread as well. 

 

And I did suggest in my other suggestion thread that only Loyalty can decrease to -100% if the player neglects to login for a few days (Health just goes from 100% more health to 0% more health, meaning no 'mandatory' need to buy DNA Stabilisers), but then allow something akin to Kubrow Food to be brought with 75,000 for 5, with each piece giving +20% Loyalty to the Kubrow when fed. If you like to see the whole thing, tell me. 

Edited July 26, 2014 by Renegade343

[Renegade343]

Everything needed for kubrow can be gotten by low lvl player including credits to craft.

 

Upkeep seems like thing added in last minute and doesnt make much sense at all. Its the only thing that prevents new players from keeping their kubrows.

If so, then the Incubator Power Core resource requirements may need to change as well (Argon Crystals and Control Modules are obtained in mid-game missions, if I categorised that correctly). 

 

Upkeep is alright, as long as it does not wipe out player progress when the player neglects it due to various reasons. 

[Davoodoo]

If so, then the Incubator Power Core resource requirements may need to change as well (Argon Crystals and Control Modules are obtained in mid-game missions, if I categorised that correctly). 

 

Upkeep is alright, as long as it does not wipe out player progress when the player neglects it due to various reasons. 

Argons can be gotten of t1 which should pretty easy to do for someone with even basic mods and group of 4 will make it even easier, control modules also drop there in abundance.

 

As for upkeep yes and no, i can understand that they want you to care for your dog, but that doesnt really work with warframe which makes you farm specific spot, in many occasions even low lvl stuff like earth looking for egg, jupiter for neural sensor and so on which doesnt award much credit while this thing basically says "now go farm some credits in set time limit."

And tbh in reality you can do nothing prevent that, since most commonly dropping material which credits is still bad for that purpose, no matter what you wil be forced to farm additional spot now for credits or other resource and that cant be changed, worked quite nicely for permament stuff but for upkeep its just slap in the face.

I believe if they made you pay few milions just to skip upkeep thing many would choose it, me included but that would also mean that new players are still screwed.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Davoodoo

[LukeAura]

Pets are emotional connections to the game, they should take time to grow, especially if they're growing while we are. Thus it is best if it starts early. But, it has to continue, and eventually reach the same level of potential we can. Meaning it must extend in to end game. 
Kubrows are not an early game vs. late game debate. Because they should be both, early game when they are found and eventually with time and player progression scale to late. Their power must develop gradually so that they remain a balanced companion for each stage of the game their owner is in. Anything less would be a failure of the idea of a companion. 


 

[Renegade343]

As for upkeep yes and no, i can understand that they want you to care for your dog, but that doesnt really work with warframe which makes you farm specific spot, in many occasions even low lvl stuff like earth looking for egg, jupiter for neural sensor and so on which doesnt award much credit while this thing basically says "now go farm some credits in set time limit."

And tbh in reality you can do nothing prevent that, since most commonly dropping material which credits is still bad for that purpose, no matter what you wil be forced to farm additional spot now for credits or other resource and that cant be changed, worked quite nicely for permament stuff but for upkeep its just slap in the face.

I believe if they made you pay few milions just to skip upkeep thing many would choose it, me included but that would also mean that new players are still screwed.

Or make it so that the credit sink is optional, but preferred. 

[Renegade343]

Argons can be gotten of t1 which should pretty easy to do for someone with even basic mods and group of 4 will make it even easier, control modules also drop there in abundance.

True, but even a group of four new players may struggle a bit with T1 (and not to mention about Void keys award). I still think placing the quest starter at Jupiter would be best, while letting the Jackal drop another quest starter which would allow new players to upgrade MK-1 weapons and fix Damaged mods. 

[Davoodoo]

Or make it so that the credit sink is optional, but preferred. 

damage and hp increase you mentioned in other topic would be as optional as mods themselves, yea you can join mission without them but ultimately you must have them to have any meaningful impact.

 

I dont believe its a step in good direction.

 

I can understand limiting amount of how much you can "heal" and increase loyalty per day, but do this by permament items.

Having stabilizers for hp and food dispenser for loyalty. Craft them once then use them to take care of your dog is what i believe would be best in our current game model.

 

New players will get their pets and veterans will have something to make them better.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Renegade343]

damage and hp increase you mentioned in other topic would be as optional as mods themselves, yea you can join mission without them but ultimately you must have them to have any meaningful impact.

What? When did I say anything about that?

 

I can understand limiting amount of how much you can "heal" and increase loyalty per day, but do this by permament items.

Having stabilizers for hp and food dispenser for loyalty. Craft them once then use them to take care of your dog is what i believe would be best in our current game model.

 

New players will get their pets and veterans will have something to make them better.

Or we give them two options: 

 

1. Instant buying with large amounts of credits. 

2. Blueprint crafting (Cheaper but with time). 

 

Mess around with the numbers to make both choices be actual choices (time vs. 'money'). 

[Davoodoo]

What? When did I say anything about that? 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/236973-some-suggestions-to-improve-gameplay-edit-35-nervos-re-introduction/

Edit 33.

[Renegade343]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/236973-some-suggestions-to-improve-gameplay-edit-35-nervos-re-introduction/

Edit 33.

We still have mods to cover that up. 

 

And of course, allow crafting of DNA Stabilisers and Kubrow Food, but trade credits with time for a better solution. 

 

Then, players will have two choices: 

 

1. Instantly get the items he/she needs, but with high amount of credits. 

2. Spend less credits, but will take time and materials. 

[Davoodoo]

We still have mods to cover that up. 

 

And of course, allow crafting of DNA Stabilisers and Kubrow Food, but trade credits with time for a better solution. 

 

Then, players will have two choices: 

 

1. Instantly get the items he/she needs, but with high amount of credits. 

2. Spend less credits, but will take time and materials. 

High credit cost is only part of problem.

 

The real problem is that you need to farm specific spot just to keep dog alive, either high credit reward node, or specific planet for resources.

It can be mended by lowering credit cost but then it becomes not meaningful and might aswell not exist.

 

As for presented option they also have  problems.

1. Everyone will buy at 1st just to be sure their dog doesnt die while waiting for crafting time.

2. After 1st one everyone will just craft this instead of buying so what the point of keeping more expensive one in game??

 

And if you try to fix any of these you will simply create more problems which again will need fixing and will create even more problems, that stuff is simply too complicated to be effective.

[Renegade343]

High credit cost is only part of problem.

 

The real problem is that you need to farm specific spot just to keep dog alive, either high credit reward node, or specific planet for resources.

It can be mended by lowering credit cost but then it becomes not meaningful and might aswell not exist.

 

As for presented option they also have  problems.

1. Everyone will buy at 1st just to be sure their dog doesnt die while waiting for crafting time.

2. After 1st one everyone will just craft this instead of buying so what the point of keeping more expensive one in game??

 

And if you try to fix any of these you will simply create more problems which again will need fixing and will create even more problems, that stuff is simply too complicated to be effective.

Loyalty decrease to -100% instead of Health would at least lessen the problem largely, since the player can interact with the Kubrow to regain loyalty, and if the player needs more Loyalty, buy some Kubrow Food or wait a bit. It will not make progress lost if the player neglects it (for various reasons) for a while, which is what the current mechanism does. 

 

The proposal I made in that thread is meant to keep within DE(L)'s goal of caring for Kubrows while making players satisfied, or at the very least not feel forced to buy items with credits (or Platinum). That would be, in my opinion, the best fix without causing as much problems down the road.