[Kubrow] 3 Hour Stasis Cooldown Discourages Strong Bonds Between Players And Kubrows

[NuBSMcGee]

I have spent the last few days thinking about this and I have come to the conclusion that I do not like the 3 hour stasis recovery delay for a number of very specific reasons.

 

First lets get the most obvious and easily relatable one out of the way. I want to play with my Kubrow NOW, not in 3 hours :p (I'm sure every last one of you expected this to be the entirety of my reason, but let's continue instead!)

 

Secondly, There are 4 Kubrows that are better suited for 4 different situations/builds. It's not uncommon that I'll want to play a squishy stealthy class on lower level content  for one mission, Then go and play t4's or other very high level content playing a crowd diving melee tank Rhino the next mission. I feel this three hour cooldown deters me from playing with the stealth kubrow for the first mission and only use my tanky Kubrow at all times regardless of which tool is best for the job at hand.

 

Thirdly, Stagnation. This discouragement of using variety amongst your kubrows will drive people to flock to one meta build and everyone (By saying everyone, I'm obviously exaggerating "A good majority") will use that meta and only that meta as to always be prepared for worst case scenarios missing out on the other options you so carefully planned, balanced, and implemented. Can anyone say Carrier Sentinel? (P.S. Please make Vacuum available on all sentinels. I don't like feeling like I always have to use Carrier because vacuum.)

 

Beyond that, There's the platinum rush feature you provided to negate this cooldown. Now, Let me just say I understand this is part of your business model. I'm ok with your business model, But in this particular implementation (Rushing the stasis cooldown) of your monetization strategy, I find it a little offensive and counter productive to your goals.

 

I won't bother sharing my opinions on why I find it a little offensive as it's not really relevant.

 

What is relevant is why I feel it's counter productive to your goals. A players emotional bond with his or her in game companions will impact how willing they are to spend money on that/those companions. By implementing a prohibitive cooldown simply to switch between Kubrows, You effectively make it a bad experience to switch, thereby attaching a negative emotional response to any and all Kubrows that aren't your currently active Kubrow. Additionally, Some players only play for an hour a day, (I'm sure you have much more detailed metrics on this than my speculation) making the switch between Kubrows a once per day decision. That's a pretty hefty consequence if while you're at work/school the next day you realize you'd rather play with your stealth Kubrow tonight instead of your tanky Kubrow. Given the prohibitive nature of switching, I can see that deterring players from buying additional slots for Kubrows as they're not likely to switch between them anyways.

 

I have on many occasion sat and stared at my Kubrow I couldn't use for 3 hours and resenting DE (Not an ideal emotional response to your product) for the cooldown timer that prevents me from enjoying the content they've released. One of my biggest issues with it is that it's a timer some players will be faced with very regularly, as opposed to a one time fee to rush your "Mirage" frame or your "Nikana". Those are one time fee's for any given item. With Kubrows, You're trying to push us to repeatedly spend money on the same Kubrow on a disposable feature (Not waiting being the feature). There's no ongoing value to that purchase making it more difficult for customers to commit to spending platinum on it.

 

I won't sit here and pretend to know the best changes that could be made to the system, nor do i have specific knowledge of your internal goals. All i can do is present my argument as to why I don't like the current implementation of this feature. With that being said, My personal wish, is that it would go away altogether. 

 

Here's a link to the reddit discussion should you wish to view any opinions shared over there. http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2brmlu/kubrow_3_hour_stasis_cooldown_discourages_strong/

Edited July 26, 2014 by NuBSMcGee

[Fortiter]

I actually feel that the stasis timer encourages these bonds between a kubrow and the player.

 

I state this based on past experience with the sentinel model where sentinels were swapped out for the best "build" or current run that the player was on. If the cooldown were taken away from kubrows, this would pop up again. If the cooldown is in place, then the player feels that if they want to play with one of their pets, it should be the one they "like" the most, regardless of mission-type.

 

Furthermore, keeping kubrows as a statistical advantage in certain scenarios ensures that all players (even hardcore heroes) will be playing with their kubrows at least now and again for specific mission-types in order to maintain their theoretical maximum potential (or however close they can get).

 

Lastly, it provides some sort of incentive for the casual players to log back in and play if they don't want to wait for a 3 hour period of time to play with their kubrow as they would need to use the DNA stabilizers.

 

 

If this game were purely hardcore-based where people always needed a theoretical maximum to clear the high-tier content, then I could see the timer needing removal... but do I want the stasis timer removed in actuality? No. I feel it adds to the game as a whole.

[Kaldru]

Back to the carrier, I guess :)

[NuBSMcGee]

I state this based on past experience with the sentinel model where sentinels were swapped out for the best "build" or current run that the player was on. If the cooldown were taken away from kubrows, this would pop up again. If the cooldown is in place, then the player feels that if they want to play with one of their pets, it should be the one they "like" the most, regardless of mission-type.

I find myself being unable to play the Kubrow I actually like due to it not being ideal in a "Worst case scenario". 

[MagpieFirefly]

I'm not entirely sure that I agree. Stasis has felt to be a "long term storage" solution for your Kubrows. I keep mine in stasis for the extended periods of time that I'm not bringing her along with me, and I feel that should stay the purpose of stasis. Cold storage to keep your pets from degrading over time.

 

Maybe it'd be better to have a separate system to let you swap Kubrows out, and it being optional to keep them in stasis. So you could have say, four Kubrows that're not in stasis that you can freely swap between, but as a tradeoff, you need to manage all of their stabilization levels and loyalty levels at once. And if you don't want to manage them all at once, then keep one you want to use and put the rest in stasis. That way, stasis retains its function, and players who want one of each of the different types of Kubrows will be able to swap at will.

 

There would need to be some added UI elements to accommodate for this most likely, but I feel that it could work out. You could even pick which one you want to disaply sitting on the incubator, setting it as a "favorite" or something, or just having whichever one you selected last display.

[Sunder]

Because of the 3 hours Stasis, how rare it is to find eggs, the constant farming of one planet for Kubrow mods I'm seeing more and more people in both Region and Council chat more or less "giving up" on Kubrows and looking at them as nothing more than "Mastery Fodder"

 

Sentinels seem to be the more reliable companion

[the_Backdash]

Maybe "discourages strong bonds" is a poor choice of words, but I agree that it's not a great system. Should there be some penalty? Sure. Maybe a small loyalty drop (*I* wouldn't want to get put into stasis) or a small credit fee. But the three-hour cooldown does mean that if I have multiple Kubrows for multiple purposes, I can't switch between them as easily as I should be able to switch between any other equipment. I mean, sure Kubrows are supposed to be living things, not equipment, but really, we mod them like anything else, we potato them like anything else, we forma them like anything else, and, assuming Stasis isn't involved, we equip them like anything else. So it doesn't seem fair to give them and only them this (long) restriction.

Hell, if they just shortened the wait to five, maybe ten, minutes, it would be a lot better because you can still use your Kubrow in a semi-reasonable amount of time.

[Renegade343]

Or we can have this (this is just a five second idea I had floating in the back of my mind as idea flotsam, then just packaged up haphazardly): 

 

If Kubrows are in stasis for more than one (or two) hour(s), then these Kubrows will suffer the same penalty as now. 

 

That way, it encourages switching of Kubrows while still keeping some sort of penalty for it (after all, keeping Kubrows in stasis will not make them lose Loyalty and Health, so something should offset it). 

[Zyion]

Or we can have this (this is just a five second idea I had floating in the back of my mind as idea flotsam, then just packaged up haphazardly): 

 

If Kubrows are in stasis for more than one (or two) hour(s), then these Kubrows will suffer the same penalty as now. 

 

That way, it encourages switching of Kubrows while still keeping some sort of penalty for it (after all, keeping Kubrows in stasis will not make them lose Loyalty and Health, so something should offset it). 

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, but it sounds like your saying in order to not get the 3 hour wait period, we have to constantly switch them out. I don't think that is really a solution as people need sleep, and once you miss that marker, you'll never be able to switch them out fast again.

[Moderius]

It also discourages people from putting the Kubrow into stasis when the day rolls over.

[SirAuron]

I actually feel that the stasis timer encourages these bonds between a kubrow and the player.

 

I state this based on past experience with the sentinel model where sentinels were swapped out for the best "build" or current run that the player was on. If the cooldown were taken away from kubrows, this would pop up again. If the cooldown is in place, then the player feels that if they want to play with one of their pets, it should be the one they "like" the most, regardless of mission-type.

 

Furthermore, keeping kubrows as a statistical advantage in certain scenarios ensures that all players (even hardcore heroes) will be playing with their kubrows at least now and again for specific mission-types in order to maintain their theoretical maximum potential (or however close they can get).

 

Lastly, it provides some sort of incentive for the casual players to log back in and play if they don't want to wait for a 3 hour period of time to play with their kubrow as they would need to use the DNA stabilizers.

 

 

If this game were purely hardcore-based where people always needed a theoretical maximum to clear the high-tier content, then I could see the timer needing removal... but do I want the stasis timer removed in actuality? No. I feel it adds to the game as a whole.

It actually discourages the use of them having to wait 3 hours to use them. Why wait? Use a sentinel.

 

The player can take it out, but then he changes his mind 3 hours later when he longer feels like using him.

 

Then there is the need to use him for a mission, but the 3 hour wait makes him change his mind or he goes in with sentinel instead and 3 hours later, back in stasis.

 

So even if your scenario can happen, this scenario happens as well. It's a double edged sword. Those that care deeply for Kubrows shall grow attached and encourage bond, those that don't care much shall have Kubrow in stasis forever using them for harvesting DNA.

 

So it actually discourages use=ing them and the high maintenance does help with that. Not everyone likes Divas and want to bend over backwards for pets. Especially new players and the irony here is that this update is dubbed "New Player Experience".

 

And it's also possible rich folks can log in, stabilize, log out and continue playing other games so this does nothing to keep them playing.

Edited July 26, 2014 by SirAuron

[roroberry]

Lastly, it provides some sort of incentive for the casual players to log back in and play if they don't want to wait for a 3 hour period of time to play with their kubrow as they would need to use the DNA stabilizers.

 Sorry, I'm just not seeing the incentive there. Forcing a casual player to grind quite a bit more in order to avoid a pay-2-play timewall on content they already bought isn't an incentive, it's a middle finger to paying customers.

Edited July 26, 2014 by roroberry

[Moderius]

 Sorry, I'm just not seeing the incentive there. Forcing a casual player to grind quite a bit more in order to avoid a pay-2-play timewall on content they already bought isn't an incentive, it's a middle finger to paying customers.

 

You keep throwing "Paying" into this as though it gives your statement more weight. It doesn't. Plenty of people sustain their Kubrow without plat. 

 

And you are working on the flawed assumption that a "casual" player should be able to just have a Kubrow the same as a more dedicated player. So there's another huge issue.

[roroberry]

You keep throwing "Paying" into this as though it gives your statement more weight. It doesn't. Plenty of people sustain their Kubrow without plat. 

 

And you are working on the flawed assumption that a "casual" player should be able to just have a Kubrow the same as a more dedicated player. So there's another huge issue.

Even if you take out the part about paying, I'm still not seeing an incentive. Not trying to be snarky, I just would like to know the reasoning.

 

Also, this system screws over dedicated players too. Not much point in owning multiple types of Kubrow if it's not even possible to use them all in a given day.

[Moderius]

Even if you take out the part about paying, I'm still not seeing an incentive. Not trying to be snarky, I just would like to know the reasoning.

 

Also, this system screws over dedicated players too. Not much point in owning multiple types of Kubrow if it's not even possible to use them all in a given day.

 

I don't really care one way or the other for the stasis cooldown. I know why it's there. I know why people don't like it. But some of the arguments for why we shouldn't have it are ridiculous.

[NuBSMcGee]

===Copy pasted form Reddit thread===

 

fallouthirteen:

My one problem would be this, how would they make you use DNA stabilizers at that point? It seems the cooldown discourages putting a Kubrow into stasis for reset. Would Kubrow then need a stabilizer regardless of being in stasis?

 

thatdovahkiinyouknow:

One idea I have is your kubrow has to have been put into stasis a certain number of hours before it can be saved from the degradation. This way you can't put it in right before the reset to stop degredation without being unable to use your kubrow for a while, people can retrieve their kubrow at any time they want, and worst come to worst you lose 20% of your kubrows DNA structure that can be instantly healed when you get back from a break since the stabilizers heal 40%.

 

Nubsly:

Perhaps convert the stabilizer into an ongoing fuel source for the incubator?

 

fallouthirteen:

Then you deal with the major point of stasis; it's intended for if you are taking a break from the game for a prolonged period. Plus then you'd have to think about how it'd handle multiple Kubrows (I want one of each type and currently own 2 of them). Would one dose feed all Kubrow or would you need one per.

Perhaps if they put another option instead of stasis. So you have stasis which works as is and another option which doesn't have the cooldown but doesn't prevent DNA breakdown. That way you can swap between Kubrow without waiting, but it'll cost you more.

 

Plagueology:

Would be nice if it was used for active incubator use and then you could lock down the entire incubator as a whole for those break times which then would result in a 3 hour cooldown of the entire thing for all kubrows before reverting back to active use and needing incubator-wide stabilization for active use.

[Moderius]

I'm sure that if using a DNA Stabilizer removed the 3-hour wait it would remove some of the issues people have with it.

[Tatersail]

for any serious mission I am going back to carrier, Double shields, and Hoover is just too good.

 

but for messing about, in lowbie maps I don't mind having a random dog, doing stuff.

but yea... Mastery..  into stasis...  GG ... dogs...

[masterhobbes]

Lowering it to 1 hour would be nice. Discouraging putting it in stasis every day to avoid the degradation but doesn't punish the player as much.

[Taranis49]

You keep throwing "Paying" into this as though it gives your statement more weight. It doesn't. Plenty of people sustain their Kubrow without plat. 

 

And you are working on the flawed assumption that a "casual" player should be able to just have a Kubrow the same as a more dedicated player. So there's another huge issue.

 

Considering that the quest to get a Kubrow can be completed by the time one hits Saturn/Jupiter (with a foray into the void to obtain Argon/Control modules), it's not an unreasonable assumption to make.

 

Particularly since in some of the older livestreams, one of the stated reasons for the game's reliance on RNG-based rewards is to try and allow "casual" players the ability to get the same stuff as more dedicated players.

[Epidexios]

Back to the carrier, I guess :)

That's the problem! I don't want to "have" to go back!

 

For me personal the sentinels have just to much advantages or the kubrows have to much disadvantages. I realy would like that the kubrow would be a good or at least okey alternative to the sentinel. Not just in the perfromance but much more in the comfort of using them.

 

The kubrow are not much worse in combat then the sentinel. At least not in lower levels. But that you constantly need to care for them or you need to wait full 3 hours to play with them is just to much. I feel like it makes them just a trophy at the wall. Cute and awesome but not viable.

 

Please DE give the kubrows more love and make them eaysier to handle! The kubrow don't want to stay in stasis for the rest of their life :(

Edited July 30, 2014 by Epidexios

[CaptJSparrow]

Can't agree more, its already expensive to maintain kubrow.

[CaptJSparrow]

Still need to wait after this update?

[LydiaWolfe]

Still need to wait after this update?

yep. DE at its best. wait times OP.

[Crewell]

I have to agree with the OP on this. Right now it feels like I log in and click something and log back off thinking I'll be back when it's done in a couple hours. There are some simple fixes that gets the same effect.

1. Stasis: Instead of putting the 3 hour timer when you pull a kubrow out of stasis, put the timer on the kubrow when you put it into stasis. The basic effect is the same. Putting a kubrow into stasis has a 3 hour penalty, but no long does it keep a player from waiting to use the kubrow they want (unless they switch a lot).

2. Imprints: Do not make the kubrow unusable while the imprint is processing. Just do a quick scan animation and be done with the kubrow. You still leave the creation time for the imprint, but no longer is the kubrow and the player held up.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Crewell