Why Soo Much Hate On Any Pvp Idea?

[SmokinDevil]

How does it not mesh...

 

It has guns. Done. Just add a fourth slot. Config D for PvP.

[Rakshal]

How does it not mesh...

 

It has guns. Done. Just add a fourth slot. Config D for PvP.

Thank you! :D

[Sloan441]

Too bad it doesn't work that way.

 

PvP ALWAYS pollutes any PvE aspects of a game and it's entirely due to balance--or lack of it as is invariably the case.

 

When the developer attempts to balance both (and fails), then it affects the PvE game. Usually by homogenization of abilities and gear, which makes PvE frustrating and boring.

 

This always happens. Always. It's why we don't want it in what it primarily a PvE game.

[Rakshal]

Too bad it doesn't work that way.

 

PvP ALWAYS pollutes any PvE aspects of a game and it's entirely due to balance--or lack of it as is invariably the case.

 

When the developer attempts to balance both (and fails), then it affects the PvE game. Usually by homogenization of abilities and gear, which makes PvE frustrating and boring.

 

This always happens. Always. It's why we don't want it in what it primarily a PvE game.

No it doesn't, now your just making things up. :/

[Sloan441]

No, I'm not.

 

It's what I've seen in other games. Quite a few of them, mostly MMRPGs.

 

I"m hoping DE doesn't go down that road, but it's best not to get started on it at all.

[vaugahn]

PvP ALWAYS pollutes any PvE aspects of a game and it's entirely due to balance--or lack of it as is invariably the case.

 

Always is a very strong word, I'd be careful with that. Now, as the burden of proof is on you here, what's an example of a game ruined by PvP?

[RoboDoge]

No it doesn't, now your just making things up. :/

It happenes if PvE is affected by PvP. PvP isnt bad by itself and it sometimes quite good addition to the game, but in most cases it brings butthurt, elitsim, nerf shouters, 1337 pro masters, elitists and other scum.

 

 

I was playing PvP in games that had it as compnent, and most of them were fun. Tho, there was some toxic people that hide behind their screen and taunt others just because they are better than them or worse in PvP.

Edited July 26, 2014 by RoboDoge

[vaugahn]

It happenes if PvE is affected by PvP. PvP isnt bad by itself and it sometimes quite good addition to the game, but in most cases it brings butthurt, elitsim, nerf shouters, 1337 pro masters, elitists and other scum.

 

Implying we don't already have those? Toxicity isn't determined by game mode, it's determined by the player. 

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

Take DCUO for example, perfect balance between PvP and PvE. You have a PvP server were you can get attacked by the other faction at any given time, and then you have ofc PvE. Now there's two sets of: PvP and PvE. Your PvE gear is virtually useless in PvP and your PvP gear is just as bad in PvE. That way, nothing gets nerfed, neither server gets hurt.

[Rakshal]

It happenes if PvE is affected by PvP. PvP isnt bad by itself and it sometimes quite good addition to the game, but in most cases it brings butthurt, elitsim, nerf shouters, 1337 pro masters, elitists and other scum.

 

 

I was playing PvP in games that had it as compnent, and most of them were fun. Tho, there was some toxic people that hide behind their screen and taunt others just because they are better than them or worse in PvP.

PvE players are just as toxic as PvP players. -_-

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

PvE players are just as toxic as PvP players. -_-

They whine about who kills the most bots and cry nerf too, so i'm having a hard time seeing how PvP are the 'toxic' community 

[RoboDoge]

Implying we don't already have those? Toxicity isn't determined by game mode, it's determined by the player. 

As from my experience, direct player versus player experience brings more butthurt. I agree that toxicity and flaming can be found even now when there is no proper PvP, but in most cases PvP will bring people that are hurt by someone being better than them.

 

 

It is common human behavior on interent, to be complete jerk or idiot if thing dont go your way. No matter PvE or PvP ( tho, PvP games tend to flock more people with hurt pride and &#! ).

[Zeitzbach]

The only way to make DSPvP work in Warframe is to remove what makes it Warframe, freedom of choice and mods. To try and fix the number will never work. The frame were never designed to pvp to begin with. They were designed to be cool, flashy and cater to a certain type of playstyle in the PvE environment.  Unless there's a preset option, people would just go and unlock the most broken aspect at the first few level and snowball out of control for an insta-win.

 

In Conclave, you have people setting up their own rules and we would even go as far as to not even consider them a proper conclaver for not following it. I remember the time I play a game where the competitive rule is player made. Hell, I disrespected every darn cash user for being a "Stat noob" and "Not following the room's rule, gtfo".

 

Is this the kind of community you really want in this game? At least the toxic PvE part won't change much as you can easily decide the decent from the QQs by looking at the difficulty. PvP? If you don't win, you're a scrub. When there's a winner, there's always a loser. It's the kind of community where someone will always get hurt no matter what.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Zeitzbach

[vaugahn]

As from my experience, direct player versus player experience brings more butthurt. I agree that toxicity and flaming can be found even now when there is no proper PvP, but in most cases PvP will bring people that are hurt by someone being better than them.

 

It is common human behavior on interent, to be complete jerk or idiot if thing dont go your way. No matter PvE or PvP ( tho, PvP games tend to flock more people with hurt pride and @$$ ).

 

Any situation where people come together at all causes butthurt. Just look at all the people who drop you from their key if you don't have a 5-forma boltor prime, or the people who come to the forums after every update to $#*(@ and whine, or the people who get mad when you don't get to them in time for a revive and force a host migration. PvP games have bigger communities on average, so you get more bad behavior.

 

Edit: @Zeitzbach, I've only experienced something like that once in my whole time playing conclaves. Don't let one bad experience ruin something for you.

Edited July 26, 2014 by vaugahn

[notlamprey]

PvE players are just as toxic as PvP players. -_-

 

It sounds like you're confusing the people with the environment.

 

"PvP" is an environment that doesn't require the involvement of a metasystem for competition to happen. The competition is tied directly into your gameplay objective.  In PvE, you can't directly compete with anyone. You have to go looking for a competition.

 

Jerks will be jerks in any sphere they occupy. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.

 

However, "competition" in PvE is necessarily abstracted from the gameplay objective in some way.

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

It sounds like you're confusing the people with the environment.

 

"PvP" is an environment that doesn't require the involvement of a metasystem for competition to happen. The competition is tied directly into your gameplay objective.  In PvE, you can't directly compete with anyone. You have to go looking for a competition.

 

Jerks will be jerks in any sphere they occupy. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.

 

However, "competition" in PvE is necessarily abstracted from the gameplay objective in some way.

What about people who hate speedrunners/ Objective owners? Most of the nerfs happen because one warframe is overall better than anothers and that person wants "justice"

[Pioofmusik]

My problem with pvp on the solar rails is -> hey lets test the new solar rails its kind of funny bam in your face. You got lvl 0 weapoms / frame and your enemys one shot you constantly, because they have lvl 30 stuff  have all skills and rape you no chance to do something. Only Respwan hey im dead. I hope i did something wrong or can lvl my pvp stuff, but if i cant that is the worst concept ever.  The lvl /  energie of your stuff make a difference betweem lvl zero penta 350 dmg and lvl 30 6000 as example.

[RoboDoge]

What about people who hate speedrunners/ Objective owners? Most of the nerfs happen because one warframe is overall better than anothers and that person wants "justice"

There is justice and "justice". I dont think you know about first Iron Skin nerf ( something like pre nerf Blessing ) but that awfully broken power. People were using Rhino even more than now and were like "Why are you not using Rhino? You wont need anything else?". When something becomes quite a lot powerful than other, and people start using that thing exclusively, game becomes boring.

 

 

Justice is when something is nerfed because it is broken and makes player using it braindead.

 

"Justice" is when something is nerfed because someone is butthurt that players using that is better than him.

[Mokkania]

PvE players are just as toxic as PvP players. -_-

Indeed but in reality they are just a bit less. (something about tendancy)

They whine about who kills the most bots and cry nerf too, so i'm having a hard time seeing how PvP are the 'toxic' community 

just an exemple but there are more similar cases

 

What about people who hate speedrunners/ Objective owners? Most of the nerfs happen because one warframe is overall better than anothers and that person wants "justice"

well it's another exemple.

 

As from my experience, direct player versus player experience brings more butthurt. I agree that toxicity and flaming can be found even now when there is no proper PvP, but in most cases PvP will bring people that are hurt by someone being better than them.

 

It sounds like you're confusing the people with the environment.

 

"PvP" is an environment that doesn't require the involvement of a metasystem for competition to happen. The competition is tied directly into your gameplay objective.  In PvE, you can't directly compete with anyone. You have to go looking for a competition.

 

Jerks will be jerks in any sphere they occupy. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.

 

However, "competition" in PvE is necessarily abstracted from the gameplay objective in some way.

Yes and No, as I said it's a tendency but... it's not that much true

The real thing about toxic community present in PVP game is something simpler, by nature those game attract certain "types of players"

Someone who has the potential or actually is a "Pvp jerk" has 2 possibilities reactions to a PvE game, he will either act just like his pvp jerk side but in the PvE version meaning bringing some way of competition (elitism for exemple) or just simply stop playing or not get involved too much in the game as it doesn't have what he seek.

 

Now about "types of players"... to put it most simply, look at sports supporter... (but I said types so there is a bit more than that)

 

Well there is more to explain but I'll stop here for now.

[vaugahn]

Indeed but in reality they are just a bit less. (something about tendancy)

just an exemple but there are more similar cases

 

Not at all. Toxicity is entirely dependent on the player and their own personal attitude. The reason this stereotype exists is because PvP games have larger communities on average compared to PvE games, which means more toxic players show up. It's all about the size of the community, not the game mode.

 

If warframe stayed PvE only but its community kept on growing, I promise you we'd see more toxic players.

 

Edit: just saw your point about sports fans...as a diehard sports fan I don't really know what to say XD

Edited July 26, 2014 by vaugahn

[Feallike]

You guys get that they already.

 

Made you take 50% less damage to sheild in PVP

 

and 25% less damage to HP in PVP

 

 

So ya, it is possible to scale PVP separately. :/

 

Really the only thing they need to do to make PVP fair, Make Ults use all your Energy in PVP, and make Explosions have half the radius they have in PVP.

 

 

Just to fix the major issues and complaints in the ballance department of PVP.

 

 

Also anyone who says PVP doesn't belong in Warframe is a troll and should be ignored. (and laughed at)

Edited July 26, 2014 by Feallike

[RoboDoge]

You guys get that they already.

 

Made you take 50% less damage to sheild in PVP

 

and 25% less damage to HP in PVP

 

 

So ya, it is possible to scale PVP separately. :/

 

Really the only thing they need to do to make PVP fair, Makes Ults use all your Energy in PVP, and make Explosions have half the radius they have in PVP.

 

 

There now PVP is actually enjoyab

It is easier than that also.

 

Just make Quake style PvP where everyone uses Excal with movement powers and preset weapons. I call that fair.

[bejuizb]

I'm not going to read the back and forth war between the people here. I'm of an entirely different camp.

 

PvP in Warframe does not fit the lore of the game. (Prepares flame shield).

 

When you're in a 4v1 war, and you're outnumbered, I don't care how big your e-peen is, you'll band together and fight the ENEMY, not your own people or digital constructs of them.

[Rakshal]

I'm not going to read the back and forth war between the people here. I'm of an entirely different camp.

 

PvP in Warframe does not fit the lore of the game. (Prepares flame shield).

 

When you're in a 4v1 war, and you're outnumbered, I don't care how big your e-peen is, you'll band together and fight the ENEMY, not your own people or digital constructs of them.

It does fit in the lore, each Tenno's view could differ causing a duel. Or clans or alliances could have different views (solar rails) and that could cause battles.

[vaugahn]

I'm not going to read the back and forth war between the people here. I'm of an entirely different camp.

 

PvP in Warframe does not fit the lore of the game. (Prepares flame shield).

 

When you're in a 4v1 war, and you're outnumbered, I don't care how big your e-peen is, you'll band together and fight the ENEMY, not your own people or digital constructs of them.

 

There's a lot of things in this game that don't properly fit in our lore. Don't forget we have to have a separation of gameplay and story.