(PSN)lance01234 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 So why can't DE start both builds at the same time? Why PC - fix bugs and then PS4 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Lord_Azden Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Consider it a safety measure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IIIDevoidIII Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 PC is the main focus. PC content is ported to PS4. They won;t restrict PC content just to release it to PS4. So, the bundling process (which takes about a month) only occur AFTER a milestone in the PC build. It is then sent to cert which takes an average of 10 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)lance01234 Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) Just so I understand the process, they work to get it ready for the PC first, then fix the issues, then port it to Sony for cert, Which adds about another week to the process, is that correct? Why do they have to port from PC why not start with PC and PS4 as seperate ports, I am not trying to hold up the PC players but it is just hard to understand why one gets it first and the other has to wait. I understand the cert process takes time but why cant DE send the update for cert at the same time they bring them to the PC? It would at least make the PS4 players not feel so fustrated. I love the game and look forward to each update. Please dont make the assumption that I dont appreciate the game or the time the devs put into it. I am just trying to understand the process at this point. I would gladly take a update with my fellow PC Tenno dispite the bugs that may occure if I could get it quicker. Just thought of something else, once the game goes to Xbox will this delay the updates even longer. Edited July 27, 2014 by (PS4)lance01234 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)infuriatedplayer Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 An excellent idea.., however i have said this so many times in the forums... And these pleas have fallen on deaf ears so far... I totally agree with you though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TakayukiAzuta Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Just so I understand the process, they work to get it ready for the PC first, then fix the issues, then port it to Sony for cert, Which adds about another week to the process, is that correct? Why do they have to port from PC why not start with PC and PS4 as seperate ports, I am not trying to hold up the PC players but it is just hard to understand why one gets it first and the other has to wait. I understand the cert process takes time but why cant DE send the update for cert at the same time they bring them to the PC? It would at least make the PS4 players not feel so fustrated. I love the game and look forward to each update. Please dont make the assumption that I dont appreciate the game or the time the devs put into it. I am just trying to understand the process at this point. I would gladly take a update with my fellow PC Tenno dispite the bugs that may occure if I could get it quicker. Just thought of something else, once the game goes to Xbox will this delay the updates even longer. no one knows… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)tommy_turtle36 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 no one knows… skyrim on ps3 and xbox. xbox got the dlc way faster then ps3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IIIDevoidIII Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Just so I understand the process, they work to get it ready for the PC first, then fix the issues, then port it to Sony for cert, Which adds about another week to the process, is that correct? Why do they have to port from PC why not start with PC and PS4 as seperate ports, I am not trying to hold up the PC players but it is just hard to understand why one gets it first and the other has to wait. I understand the cert process takes time but why cant DE send the update for cert at the same time they bring them to the PC? It would at least make the PS4 players not feel so fustrated. I love the game and look forward to each update. Please dont make the assumption that I dont appreciate the game or the time the devs put into it. I am just trying to understand the process at this point. I would gladly take a update with my fellow PC Tenno dispite the bugs that may occure if I could get it quicker. Just thought of something else, once the game goes to Xbox will this delay the updates even longer. They don't work to get it 'ready', they build from scratch. The team at this time is too small to reliably work on two simultaneous ports. I'm not sure what update you want them to send to cert, but if it is every Wednesday update, the cert process will take longer than a week to complete. Using the same parameters as PC, we'd have gamebreaking bugs making it unplayable for a week to up to 15 days. That's just bad business. Perhaps if DE was cleared to not need to go through cert, we'd be getting somewhere, but it is not the case at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RidetheSpiral13 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 DE is a small studio of about 200 employees, 2D and 3D artists, animators, devs, administration, marketing, HR, legal, etc. Limited resources means only so much you can do with the staff you have. Not knowing how much of their code has to be updated to handle each platform, you can't disregard that there is a chance there is a fair amount of work to handle the PS4 and upcoming X1 branches. Sounds like most of their tech is built around script, so many bugs don't require underlying engine changes (C/C++/whatever) which would make stuff take even longer as the engine's are going to be the most platform specific component of the game. However when there are changes that need to be made in engine to support new features or whatever, then you can expect longer updates. I wouldn't be surprised if U14 quest system and additional cinematics may need some additional engine updates to handle new features. Give them time. Let PC be the true Beta for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)lance01234 Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) So they dont have enough staff to build both ports at the same time, and the ps4 port is much more involved than the PC build so it takes longer, then there is the cert time from Sony. I feel sorry for DE when they get to Xbox and try to get cert from them in a timely mannor. Maybe they will need more staff to"build" for both PS4 and Xbox if they are different builds. They will have a hard time getting them out in a reasonable time compaired to PC. Edited July 28, 2014 by (PS4)lance01234 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RidetheSpiral13 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) I was merely speculating, but based on my software development background (not in games), I would say they need more staff to handle simultaneous releases. Here is some evidence that may support that speculation. http://www.digitalextremes.com/careers/postings One other thing to note, I believe they have to pay Sony (and eventually Microsoft) for certification. This likely is in the thousands or tens of thousands of dollar range. Even if cert was faster, it's not economically feasible for them to roll new builds at, say, $10K a pop on console. They don't have to pay for cert on PC, so they have the luxury and risk of doing patches more often. So many questions here about why they don't roll console builds faster or more often, and the reason in short is probably lack of resources and it's really expensive to do so. Edited July 28, 2014 by (PS4)RidetheSpiral13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)japaneselonewolf Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 You made a statement that you would gladly accept bugs because you lack patience. You do not want this. Every PC is different, therefore it is hard to test for every single contingency before roll out. Some outdated hardware or software spec, or a general lack of upkeep on a PC has the possibility to affect how new software will interact. Every PS4 is the same. No hardware differences. Imagine that one bug that bricks your console. Or the game is completely unplayable. And affects other games. Which means every single user is hosed. This is what you can't live without? Start reading the PC side of things when they experience bugs. It isn't pleasant. That's what you're inviting and telling us you desire. Be glad Sony is the last hurdle to cross and protects you from yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Zeylon Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 They don't by choice, nothing more. It's hardly impossible to do simultaneous releases of patches on consoles and PC (see, FF XI, et al.). Other companies do it with fewer employees as well (see War Thunder, cross-platform PC/PS4). Bear in mind, that cross-platform play was something they promised as well, but apparently has to wait for the versions to sync up. So, they're not doing it by choice, and they said they would do so. There's nothing more to it. Any other bloviating about reasons why it's impractical are pure bs. Companies have been managing cross-platform patching with cert for over a decade, and people already do it on the PS4 with less people than DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)lance01234 Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 Thanks everyone for helping me understand the process. To answer a previous question my point was I don't expects perfect updates without issues. Of course I don't want to brick my machine. But the logic used by some saying just let the PC people work out the kinks and be patient does not fly for me personally. If they can bring it to the PC Tenno without " bricking a PC y not for PS4. But I have a general idea how the systems works now thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RidetheSpiral13 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 They don't by choice, nothing more. It's hardly impossible to do simultaneous releases of patches on consoles and PC (see, FF XI, et al.). Other companies do it with fewer employees as well (see War Thunder, cross-platform PC/PS4). Bear in mind, that cross-platform play was something they promised as well, but apparently has to wait for the versions to sync up. So, they're not doing it by choice, and they said they would do so. There's nothing more to it. Any other bloviating about reasons why it's impractical are pure bs. Companies have been managing cross-platform patching with cert for over a decade, and people already do it on the PS4 with less people than DE. Don't recall saying it's impractical or impossible at all. Some people don't understand software development and the resources (people, time, money) it takes so I was trying to explain simplest and most likely reason. Maybe they don't have the skills to do simultaneous releases, maybe they don't have the people, or maybe they choose not to, but none of us here, except employees of DE, can say definitively why. Claiming one reason, without any evidence to support, as being more correct than others is also pure bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Zeylon Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Don't recall saying it's impractical or impossible at all. Some people don't understand software development and the resources (people, time, money) it takes so I was trying to explain simplest and most likely reason. Maybe they don't have the skills to do simultaneous releases, maybe they don't have the people, or maybe they choose not to, but none of us here, except employees of DE, can say definitively why. Claiming one reason, without any evidence to support, as being more correct than others is also pure bs. And I know for a fact I didn't quote you in my post? I would think it was obvious considering they said they didn't want to make the PC players "wait" that they could easily have the PS4 catch up. They made a choice. Their own words and the realities of the situation are plenty of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RidetheSpiral13 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Thought you were addressing me. Fair enough then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)dgrayman_123 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Just to know, did Sony dropped that "charge fee" for updating a game on their console? I know they did charged it on the Ps3 but I'm not sure about the Ps4, a friend of mine asked me that and I didn't know how to answer him, can anyone provide me this info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IIIDevoidIII Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Just to know, did Sony dropped that "charge fee" for updating a game on their console? I know they did charged it on the Ps3 but I'm not sure about the Ps4, a friend of mine asked me that and I didn't know how to answer him, can anyone provide me this info? There's still a fee. It's a pricey penny. Around $10,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)dgrayman_123 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 There's still a fee. It's a pricey penny. Around $10,000. Really? Meh sad to know that, oh well thanks for the info Devoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Ew_Tux Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) There's still a fee. It's a pricey penny. Around $10,000. Source? Charge seems fairly high to be honest. As far as i know it goes by content size and even at that I'm not sure as I do not work for Sony ;) Size of the update through psn is small, the actually content is downloaded from DE servers. Edited July 30, 2014 by (PS4)Ew_Tux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Dante--Inferno__ Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 The answer is DE sends the update to PC first works out bugs and then hits the send button for ps4 and then uses the sony cert process as there excuse for the next week and half. Think people when U13 came out on ps4 it was bugged to core then a magical hot fix came out a hour later. There is no cert process if there was how did they crank a hot fix out so fast? And how did i get through cert in less than an hour? And the cert charge is bogus if it was real they have no issue with price they make more than that in a hour on plat purchases. So open your eyes. I'm not fooled by the prime time promises they are all fake. So i hope DE sees this i hope they get all salty inside. They are bunch of people who dont care about ps4. Watch the streams ps4 is talked for less than a minute PC the rest so DE do a stream exclusive to ps4 apologize your heart out because i wont believe it and you've lost a long time fan of warframe whos played both platforms so PC fanboys chill because i know both sides and whats happening here is both cruel and unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Drew Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Think people when U13 came out on ps4 it was bugged to core then a magical hot fix came out a hour later. There is no cert process if there was how did they crank a hot fix out so fast? And how did i get through cert in less than an hour? The PS4 U13 hotfix was certified by Sony, albeit very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)R6CHAMELEON Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Hey dante do you work in the field. Do you make games and deal with sony on a regular basis. I am curious. not trying to disrespect your "opinion" but maybe some knowledge would help. its opinions like this that make great companies sell out and watch their work get destroyed by someone else. give DE some time to hash out the bugs and give us a better quality update. Patience is all i suggest not unconstructive comments. but hey im just me. and im sure when other games come out like destiny you will be one of those that jumps on that wagon and leaves warframe. so i just say its players like you that i will truly miss the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)japaneselonewolf Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Think about it, Dante. If we had a separate Devstream, what will the devs discuss? The same material they gave us when they revealed it to everyone in general, PC and PS4 alike. You may think Sony Cert is bogus, but their QA process exists for a reason. And yes, I am a QA Team Lead for my company, after a lifetime of software development, so I understand both sides of the equation. It only takes that one bug or mistake to brick a nation of consoles. Then someone crying the blues about lawsuits and unplayable systems. Screams of "how did they let this happen?" The PC to PS4 conversion to cert process exists for a reason. Since you mentioned you know both sides, you already know the PC side has far more bugs to conquer, while the PS4 has very little in comparison. Seems like the process is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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