Mag Improvements

[Jax_Cavalera]

This is a topic dedicated exclusively to looking at which aspects of Mag need to be improved.

 

There was a recent thread which I had created for this purpose, however due to several trolls posting irrelevant content, the topic was locked.

 

For this reason, any post that does not contain information directly relevant in reference to the subject, will be reported and ignored.

 

Posts should avoid referencing to other frames as this is a dedicated topic for Mag.

 

I understand and acknowledge that other frames out there will have a greater need to be improved and that Mag is by far not the worst frame available in the game.  This topic is to identify areas where she can be improved to form a more balanced warframe that provides freedom in gameplay style and loadouts.

 

The discussion is to be focused on Mag in the context of :

 

-  Solo Game Play

-  End Game (Level 60+ enemies)

-  The ability to freely play with freedom of choice in Sentinel, Weapons and Abilities.

 

 

The following is salvaged from the previous discussion :

 

-  Pull appears to be working better now than before.  I still see the Infested with a Redish Aura not being moved by it .  Pull does appear to be working more predictably as host and client now though.  As a general statement, Pull does not need any improvements.

 

-  Bullet Attractor :  It was pointed out that you can aim on the area of the Orb that is likely to send projectiles towards the desired target point.  My issue with this approach is that the ability becomes a less accurate way of hitting target zones for bosses and unique units.

 

Players are better off just shooting the enemy directly on weak points without using BA than trying to guess where their projectiles may go after they hit a bubble around the enemy.  I still believe that this ability should redirect to weak points specific to the enemy as I always thought it was advertised to do.

 

-  Shield Polarize : Fine (does not appear to be a CC replacement for Crush) but is good for what it does.  Further testing will need to be done with maxed Blind Rage before I can say 100% that it is not a CC replacement as there are mixed posts where some claim maxing this mod out turns it into a room clearer on corpus levels.  I also note that RealPandemonium states a great balance for this ability which is :

 

Max Intensify and rank 2 Blind Rage combined with max Streamline and Fleeting Expertise give 57% strength and 75% efficiency

 

 

- Crush  : Needs to have Ragdolling for enemies added back in, it's just so dumb that pulling an enemy around the room causes them to take time to recover (which it should since players have the same recovery when enemies knock them off their feet)  but crushing their bones internally.. is not a problem.

 

I would think having your bones all crushed up would cause you to be more stunned/ragdolled than being knocked over by Pull.

 

 

Please read the context and criteria listed in this post before responding.

 

- Stay on Topic

 

- Keep discussion of other frames to a minimum/not at all.  (we all know there are worse off frames than Mag out there.  This topic is dedicated to isolating areas with Mag that need improving.)

 

-  The context of improvements is based on :

End Game (lvl 60+)

Solo Gameplay

Not being Limited to 1 type of sentinel/weapon/mod loadout.

 

Most warframes are good enough for use in a Team context, however the more balanced frames can also be good on their own.

 

If there is a loadout you have found which helps to make Mag work well in the context of this discussion, please share this with the group so others may give ita try.  This will also help identify multiple alternative play-styles for Mag.. or the lack of them.

[LascarCapable]

I kinda feel like Bullet Attractor shoud do another thing than doing damage when the victim is dead. I suggested a pulling effect to the center of the explosion once. I had some good feedback about it.

 

I'll check out Pull again, I didn't herd about Pull being more predictable. It's a nice thing to know... Have you tried it as a client also ?

 

EDIT : Checked pull again, it still seemed sometimes wonky to me. Maybe it's just me.

[Azawarau]

So were trolls for disagreeing with you?

 

Im surprised this wasnt immediately locked especially when youre asking for a round 2 yourself

 

You were proven wrong and just went on to the next thing as if every frame were perfect

 

I can point out flaws in every frame for you if you like a a counter argument but im just a troll for doing that and have no valid point to make

 

And in all honesty you even admitted you were wrong and dont have a completed mag build to give a relevant feedback on

 

As for the topic

 

Pull is a Huge range CC ragdoll thats nice to have

 

Polarize scales infinitely and has a huge range

 

BA is great for taking cover while fighting a heavily armored enemy or as a bullet sponge for a getaway

 

Crush needs some love but its ok for what it is

Edited July 27, 2014 by Azawarau

[LascarCapable]

There's no reason to lock as long as there's no derrail. If OP still wants to defend his opinion and doing another thread about it, it's totally fine for me.

 

If everyone is clean and accept each other's opinion, it's fine.

[Varzy]

Perhaps the BA explosion should be an implosion? Also, BA increases damage dealt to enemies so that counterbalances the loss of precision.

 

Crush definitely needs the ragdoll once more.

[Azawarau]

Perhaps the BA explosion should be an implosion? Also, BA increases damage dealt to enemies so that counterbalances the loss of precision.

 

Crush definitely needs the ragdoll once more.

Other than crush there really isnt anything wrong with her

 

BA explosion being only 300 is saddening but its more of a single target killer with CC

 

Polarize and pull make up the bulk of her offensive and defensive with BA acting as a situational thing and Crush being a sort of emergency CC

 

Ill be posting Crush spam soon

[Varzy]

Other than crush there really isnt anything wrong with her

 

BA explosion being only 300 is saddening but its more of a single target killer with CC

 

Polarize and pull make up the bulk of her offensive and defensive with BA acting as a situational thing and Crush being a sort of emergency CC

 

Ill be posting Crush spam soon

BA needs more utility than a single target debuff, though. Hence my suggestion that it implodes rather than explodes -- it deals some damage but more importantly drags surrounding enemies in a large radius into a tight group. This'd make for great CC and would synergise well with other frames and area of effect abilities.

[Azawarau]

BA needs more utility than a single target debuff, though. Hence my suggestion that it implodes rather than explodes -- it deals some damage but more importantly drags surrounding enemies in a large radius into a tight group. This'd make for great CC and would synergise well with other frames and area of effect abilities.

Currently it makes all shots focus on one enemy, even the enemy you use it on shoots itself

 

Id say maybe increase the blast damage and make it affected by power str somehow

 

The implosion idea is very good as well

 

Mag + Trinity + melee is extremely effective with this by the way

 

Well of life to make a tank and bullet attractor to remove enemy fire

Edited July 27, 2014 by Azawarau

[Ryouhi]

I have come back to this game after nearly half a year of not playing.

One of the first Frames i jumped back to was my Mag Prime.

 

Pull was good as ever.

Good Damage, huge range and cheap CC.

 

Shield Polarize, is just amazing in Corpus missions, and is generally still useful against other factions for restoring your teams shields.

Especially useful for Defense missions too.

 

Bullet Attractor i didn't really use in a while, but i remember it being amazing against Bosses, perfect for high mobility fights.

My Mag is generally built for Range so this thing gets pretty ridiculous, covering a huge amount of area.

Maybe it should have a max. 'Range', for convenients sake.

Also rather useful against generally tougher enemies.

 

Crush, is the only ability that needs a buff imo

I've been rather shocked to find out, standing in the middle of a million enemies, that it doesn't knock enemies down anymore at the end of the animation.

How does that make sense?

Both from a logical and a gameplay standpoint.

It crushes the enemies body and bones, but they just drop to their feet immediately as if nothing happened.

 

You usually will be in the center of the enemies to hit as many enemies as possible with the ability.

Since the Damage falls off pretty fast, most enemies will simply survive being crushed.

Now you're standing there, in the middle of a bunch of enemies that will immediately attack you again.

At the moment there really isn't much of a point in using Crush over Pull.

Using Pull a few times will deal some nice damage, over a bigger area, while also CCing every enemey in the radius.

 

I'd really like to see some of Pulls power shifted towards Crush.

Decrease the damage to Sonic Booms level, since they are rather similar, and even then pull will still be superior because of the sheer range.

In turn up the Damage on Crush and give its Knockdown back.

[Paradoxbomb]

I quite like the idea of Bullet Attractor having a Pull mechanic added to the explosion. At the very least, they could change the damage dealt at the end to a percent of the target's health rather than a flat value, to help it scale a bit better into higher levels.

 

As for Crush, I feel like they should give it an overhaul, as it is now it's a pretty lackluster "press 4 to kill" button which feels outdated compared to some of the newer and more unique ultimates that have been added. For example, rather than just pick them up, damage them a little, and put them back down, why not have Mag electromagnetically charge all enemies within range and use their bodies as projectiles, launching them at nearby enemies or just smashing them against one another if no other targets are present. Adds a unique flare to her ultimate and they could even incorporate some kind of scaling mechanic by making the damage dealt to a target based on how many magnetic explosions effect them at once (in other words damage scales based on the number of enemies you pick up at once).

 

Pull and Shield Polarize are more or less fine as they are.

[ArmyOfFun]

I also support the idea of a pull on kill instead of explosion on Bullet Attractor.  It is much more fun being able to not just pull targets towards you, but also away from you.

[Ryouhi]

Really like the implosion idea for Bullet Attractor, would make for nice setups using explosive of penetrating weapons.

[Azawarau]

I quite like the idea of Bullet Attractor having a Pull mechanic added to the explosion. At the very least, they could change the damage dealt at the end to a percent of the target's health rather than a flat value, to help it scale a bit better into higher levels.

 

As for Crush, I feel like they should give it an overhaul, as it is now it's a pretty lackluster "press 4 to kill" button which feels outdated compared to some of the newer and more unique ultimates that have been added. For example, rather than just pick them up, damage them a little, and put them back down, why not have Mag electromagnetically charge all enemies within range and use their bodies as projectiles, launching them at nearby enemies or just smashing them against one another if no other targets are present. Adds a unique flare to her ultimate and they could even incorporate some kind of scaling mechanic by making the damage dealt to a target based on how many magnetic explosions effect them at once (in other words damage scales based on the number of enemies you pick up at once).

 

Pull and Shield Polarize are more or less fine as they are.

 

 

I also support the idea of a pull on kill instead of explosion on Bullet Attractor.  It is much more fun being able to not just pull targets towards you, but also away from you.

 

 

Really like the implosion idea for Bullet Attractor, would make for nice setups using explosive of penetrating weapons.

I think we have a winner

[fadeinlight]

A little bit of context:  I'm new here, and Mag is my first warframe...so I have little to compare her to.

 

My first impression is this:  why use "Crush" when you can use "Pull?"

 

Pull costs 25 energy, is nearly insta-cast, has greater range, can be used mid-air, and doesn't leave the warframe stuck in an animation while casting.  If you compare the damage it causes per energy spent, it does more damage than crush (300 at max level/25 energy, vs. 1000 at max/100 energy, which equates to 12 damage for every point of energy for Pull vs. 10 damage for every point of energy for Crush).

 

Because Pull immobilizes enemies, you can cast it multiple times in a row while the enemy is incapacitated...meaning that there is almost no advantage to casting "Crush" and immobilizing them once for 1k damage, or casting "Pull" four times in a row and having them incapacitated for a longer time over all.  As a matter of fact, the only disadvantage I see for "Pull" is that it brings all of the enemies closer to you, which isn't always necessarily a good time when you're short-range game is weak.

 

So far as "Bullet Attractor" and "Shield Polarize" go, I see those as abilities that largely come into play with bosses.  It's rare that you come across one creature that deserves a "bullet attractor" more than a crowd of them warrants three castings of "pull."  At these early stages, getting 20% of my shields in return for them losing 20% of theirs is worth nowhere near two castings of "Pull," which will usually decimate both shields and health while mitigating fire.

 

Bear in mind two things:  these are just first impressions, and I'm not saying that "Pull" should be nerfed--it's one of the only things that has provided value out of this warframe.  Rather, I'm saying that "Crush" should be either diversified or improved, while the other abilities might be reworked to provide greater value in the usual (non-boss) grind.

 

Any feedback from more experienced Mag players would be appreciated.

Edited July 27, 2014 by fadeinlight

[Semshol]

OP's post

 

I remember commenting on a similar topic. I will say the same things.

 

The powers DON'T need a rework, because every frame usually comes with 2 good abilities and 2....slightly not-so-good abilities.

 

In Mag's case her two world ending abilities are Pull and Shield Polarize you need nothing else. Here is how I build my Magneto.

 

Aura - Energy Siphon (You can switch out to Corrosive if you want, personal choice)

 

Mods:

- Vitality (yes, I know her shield scales better, but I like having a margin for error, if you are a super pro who doesn't need health, substitute this)

- Redirection

- Equilibrium (I am a defensive person, again you can substitute this, I just like having it on almost all my builds. My buddy uses rush in place of this)

- Pull

- Shield Polarize

- Streamline (max)

- Fleeting (max)

- Intensify (Max)

- Blind Rage (rank 7)

-Stretch (max)

 

What this achieves is:

100% shield restore

500% damage on drained shields (I find this to be a necessity at later levels, but others may think differently).

50% power efficiency (because her abilities are ridiculously cheap 12.5 on CC and 25 for her 'true ulti')

20m shield explosion radius and 35m reach, same for pull (these numbers are not exact, but I am too tired to calculate).

 

With this build she is a walking Nuke against Corpus and Corrupted (who gain shields thanks to their cute little ospreys)

 

Also I do not go for the rank 2 Blind Rage, because if you HAVE to waste a slot putting blind rage on in the first place, you might as well maximize. Go hard or go home. Also, the 'hurr durr max efficiency = more damage per cast' doesn't apply to mag...and honestly it doesn't apply to other frames as well, but I'll try not to slap anyone about it, and the reason is because you can't drain shields twice. Drain it once and kill the F*** out of everything. Or as Ellis says, "Kill all sons of *@##$es, that's my official instructions".

 

Based on this build, crush remains useless and it's a worthless ulti, because damage always drops off, Shield Polarize scales.

 

Bullet Attractor is an attractor of bullets...but with end-game weapons, there is no need to mark a target except a boss and if you're going bossing...there are other frames to bring along that can make things easier on you.

 

That's how I play Mag and I hope you all learned how to play her without needing any modifications whatsoever.

 

Not every ability has to be useful, that is what kills the ability to maximize.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Semshol

[Semshol]

A little bit of context:  I'm new here, and Mag is my first warframe...so I have little to compare her to.

 

My first impression is this:  why use "Crush" when you can use "Pull?"

 

Pull costs 25 energy, is nearly insta-cast, has greater range, can be used mid-air, and doesn't leave the warframe stuck in an animation while casting.  If you compare the damage it causes per energy spent, it does more damage than crush (300 at max level/25 energy, vs. 1000 at max/100 energy, which equates to 12 damage for every point of energy for Pull vs. 10 damage for every point of energy for Crush).

 

Because Pull immobilizes enemies, you can cast it multiple times in a row while the enemy is incapacitated...meaning that there is almost no advantage to casting "Crush" and immobilizing them once for 1k damage, or casting "Pull" four times in a row and having them incapacitated for a longer time over all.  As a matter of fact, the only disadvantage I see for "Pull" is that it brings all of the enemies closer to you, which isn't always necessarily a good time when you're short-range game is weak.

 

So far as "Bullet Attractor" and "Shield Polarize" go, I see those as abilities that largely come into play with bosses.  It's rare that you come across one creature that deserves a "bullet attractor" more than a crowd of them warrants three castings of "pull."  At these early stages, getting 20% of my shields in return for them losing 20% of theirs is worth nowhere near two castings of "Pull," which will usually decimate both shields and health while mitigating fire.

 

Bear in mind two things:  these are just first impressions, and I'm not saying that "Pull" should be nerfed--it's one of the only things that has provided value out of this warframe.  Rather, I'm saying that "Crush" should be either diversified or improved, while the other abilities might be reworked to provide greater value in the usual (non-boss) grind.

 

Any feedback from more experienced Mag players would be appreciated.

 

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. Read my build and you'll pretty much understand how to make an insta-kill things Mag. (against corpus anyway, there is no mag build that is suited for Grineer, because she is not a Grineer killer)

[Azawarau]

I remember commenting on a similar topic. I will say the same things.

 

The powers DON'T need a rework, because every frame usually comes with 2 good abilities and 2....slightly not-so-good abilities.

 

In Mag's case her two world ending abilities are Pull and Shield Polarize you need nothing else. Here is how I build my Magneto.

 

Aura - Energy Siphon (You can switch out to Corrosive if you want, personal choice)

 

Mods:

- Vitality (yes, I know her shield scales better, but I like having a margin for error, if you are a super pro who doesn't need health, substitute this)

- Redirection

- Equilibrium (I am a defensive person, again you can substitute this, I just like having it on almost all my builds. My buddy uses rush in place of this)

- Pull

- Shield Polarize

- Streamline (max)

- Fleeting (max)

- Intensify (Max)

- Blind Rage (rank 7)

-Stretch (max)

 

What this achieves is:

100% shield restore

500% damage on drained shields (I find this to be a necessity at later levels, but others may think differently).

50% power efficiency (because her abilities are ridiculously cheap 12.5 on CC and 25 for her 'true ulti')

20m shield explosion radius and 35m reach, same for pull (these numbers are not exact, but I am too tired to calculate).

 

With this build she is a walking Nuke against Corpus and Corrupted (who gain shields thanks to their cute little ospreys)

 

Also I do not go for the rank 2 Blind Rage, because if you HAVE to waste a slot putting blind rage on in the first place, you might as well maximize. Go hard or go home. Also, the 'hurr durr max efficiency = more damage per cast' doesn't apply to mag...and honestly it doesn't apply to other frames as well, but I'll try not to slap anyone about it, and the reason is because you can't drain shields twice. Drain it once and kill the F*** out of everything. Or as Ellis says, "Kill all sons of *@##$es, that's my official instructions".

 

Based on this build, crush remains useless and it's a worthless ulti, because damage always drops off, Shield Polarize scales.

 

Bullet Attractor is an attractor of bullets...but with end-game weapons, there is no need to mark a target except a boss and if you're going bossing...there are other frames to bring along that can make things easier on you.

 

That's how I play Mag and I hope you all learned how to play her without needing any modifications whatsoever.

 

Not every ability has to be useful, that is what kills the ability to maximize.

Mag Polarize,Valkyr Warcry, and Rhino Roar should be max blind raged IMO since they can scale with enemys (Rhinos scaling being when combined with Polarize and other damage increasing abilities in this case)

[Semshol]

Mag Polarize,Valkyr Warcry, and Rhino Roar should be max blind raged IMO since they can scale with enemys (Rhinos scaling being when combined with Polarize and other damage increasing abilities in this case)

 

Well the reason we go rank 7 rather than max is because it's an extra -15% efficiency and considering efficiency is at 50% it actually begins to make more of a difference than the 27% more power strength that you'll get.

 

At this level, Mag's shield polarize will match a maxed efficiency ult from other frames, which is just nice. 25 power per cast.

 

Roar doesn't scale with enemies btw it only gives you a flat 65% damage increase. So eventually enemies will over-tank Roar. Shield Polarize does scale though :) and so does Warcry...technically, the armor bonus doesn't scale but the speed reduction makes them slow no matter what level they are at.

[Azawarau]

Well the reason we go rank 7 rather than max is because it's an extra -15% efficiency and considering efficiency is at 50% it actually begins to make more of a difference than the 27% more power strength that you'll get.

 

At this level, Mag's shield polarize will match a maxed efficiency ult from other frames, which is just nice. 25 power per cast.

 

Roar doesn't scale with enemies btw it only gives you a flat 65% damage increase. So eventually enemies will over-tank Roar. Shield Polarize does scale though :) and so does Warcry...technically, the armor bonus doesn't scale but the speed reduction makes them slow no matter what level they are at.

I said roar scales with polarize and other scaling powers/weapons

 

unless it doesnt affect polarize at all

 

Id still prefer maxed polarize myself either way

 

Its not very costly when you use fleeting ...

 

Issue comes with not being able to take advantage of BA very much

 

More armor = less enemy damage % taken nee?

 

Technically it scales then ?

[Semshol]

I said roar scales with polarize and other scaling powers/weapons

 

unless it doesnt affect polarize at all

 

Id still prefer maxed polarize myself either way

 

Its not very costly when you use fleeting ...

 

Issue comes with not being able to take advantage of BA very much

 

More armor = less enemy damage % taken nee?

 

Technically it scales then ?

 

Roar doesn't scale with powers, at least to the best of my knowledge, otherwise every game will require a Rhino with Roar.

 

So it shouldn't affect Polarize and yes it's not very costly when you use the maxed fleeting, but at higher levels even 2 - 3 more energy cost can mean death if you can't cast when you need it, so doubling the damage on Polarize is usually enough for me, maximizing is overkill, but you are welcome to do anything with your own builds.

 

More armor = less enemy damage % taken...but the enemies keep getting more damage so eventually the armor will become dead, which means it doesn't actually scale, because it's effect is not constant. An ability scales if it's effect is constant no matter what. For example: Radial disarm is the same against a lvl 100 mob as it is against a lvl 1 mob, so it means it scales, but Armor will be different for a level 100 mob versus a level 1 mob, therefore it doesn't scale lol.

[Azawarau]

Roar doesn't scale with powers, at least to the best of my knowledge, otherwise every game will require a Rhino with Roar.

 

So it shouldn't affect Polarize and yes it's not very costly when you use the maxed fleeting, but at higher levels even 2 - 3 more energy cost can mean death if you can't cast when you need it, so doubling the damage on Polarize is usually enough for me, maximizing is overkill, but you are welcome to do anything with your own builds.

 

More armor = less enemy damage % taken...but the enemies keep getting more damage so eventually the armor will become dead, which means it doesn't actually scale, because it's effect is not constant. An ability scales if it's effect is constant no matter what. For example: Radial disarm is the same against a lvl 100 mob as it is against a lvl 1 mob, so it means it scales, but Armor will be different for a level 100 mob versus a level 1 mob, therefore it doesn't scale lol.

Well it does scale

 

Just when enemies get strong enough that doesnt matter

 

But to be fair if a 90% damage reduction Valkyr is dying too quickly to go on the team should be running away or not have her there if they intend to go for more than an hour

[RealPandemonium]

Kudos to the OP.  Jax has done a good job of accepting the feedback he received in the other thread and his suggestions are valid in my book.  It feels good to get through to people once in a while.  

 

I kinda feel like Bullet Attractor shoud do another thing than doing damage when the victim is dead.

For sure, the 300 damage explosion is weird and unsatisfying.  I haven't been able to come up with anything clever for it, though.  The implosion idea would be OK IMO, as long as the radius remained small.

 

I also think that Pull should not ragdoll as it does now, but gather enemies up and stagger them so you can follow up with explosions and melee.  It would still be good chain-cc but if you want to knock the whole room down it should be Crush that does that, not your 1 ability.  This would make both abilities fun and useful.  Adding a slow or puncture proc to Crush would also fit thematically and cement it as a good ability that isn't overpowered.  

Edited July 27, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Jax_Cavalera]

I kinda feel like Bullet Attractor shoud do another thing than doing damage when the victim is dead. I suggested a pulling effect to the center of the explosion once. I had some good feedback about it.

 

I'll check out Pull again, I didn't herd about Pull being more predictable. It's a nice thing to know... Have you tried it as a client also ?

 

EDIT : Checked pull again, it still seemed sometimes wonky to me. Maybe it's just me.

 

Now this is a unique option for Bullet Attractor which I have not heard mentioned before.

 

It also seems to me that this would work well WITH Shield Polarize, dragging enemies in nice and close without stripping away shields (unlike Pull) just ready for it to do heavy damage with a SP blast.

 

 

A little bit of context:  I'm new here, and Mag is my first warframe...so I have little to compare her to.

 

My first impression is this:  why use "Crush" when you can use "Pull?"

 

Pull costs 25 energy, is nearly insta-cast, has greater range, can be used mid-air, and doesn't leave the warframe stuck in an animation while casting.  If you compare the damage it causes per energy spent, it does more damage than crush (300 at max level/25 energy, vs. 1000 at max/100 energy, which equates to 12 damage for every point of energy for Pull vs. 10 damage for every point of energy for Crush).

 

Because Pull immobilizes enemies, you can cast it multiple times in a row while the enemy is incapacitated...meaning that there is almost no advantage to casting "Crush" and immobilizing them once for 1k damage, or casting "Pull" four times in a row and having them incapacitated for a longer time over all.  As a matter of fact, the only disadvantage I see for "Pull" is that it brings all of the enemies closer to you, which isn't always necessarily a good time when you're short-range game is weak.

 

So far as "Bullet Attractor" and "Shield Polarize" go, I see those as abilities that largely come into play with bosses.  It's rare that you come across one creature that deserves a "bullet attractor" more than a crowd of them warrants three castings of "pull."  At these early stages, getting 20% of my shields in return for them losing 20% of theirs is worth nowhere near two castings of "Pull," which will usually decimate both shields and health while mitigating fire.

 

Bear in mind two things:  these are just first impressions, and I'm not saying that "Pull" should be nerfed--it's one of the only things that has provided value out of this warframe.  Rather, I'm saying that "Crush" should be either diversified or improved, while the other abilities might be reworked to provide greater value in the usual (non-boss) grind.

 

Any feedback from more experienced Mag players would be appreciated.

 

I would have to agree, in the current state of Crush.. this is exactly why Pull is being used.  The thing would be that Pull is not a great CC on End Game enemies (lvl 60+) when you are playing SOLO.  The reason for this would be that :

 

-  Enter a room with enemies all in front of you.

-  Pulls... now enemies scatter even behind you.

----  At this point.. enemies recover at different rates and since you can't re-pull a recovering enemy things start to get out of hand ----

-  Enemies start to return fire and you can't pull them all to keep up ragdolling whilst shooting as they are all recovering at random times and you are now surrounded.

 

On weak enemies it is great but end game.. it loses that ability to actually Kill anything.

 

 

Now the way Crush use to work is... you walk into the same room :

 

-  Crush all enemies..

-  They all fall down ragdolled at the same time.. giving you space to shoot a few before having to re-crush.

----  Enemies remain in front of you not scattered... and they all have even recovery making it easy to calculate how often you need to re-use the power.  Also you recover way faster than they all do so you can pick them off or get better cover ---

 

This is the reason why Crush needs that Ragdoll back.. Most frame abilities are not able to keep killing enemies at End Game.. so they ultimately are graded on how well they can CC.

 

 

 

Well it does scale

 

Just when enemies get strong enough that doesnt matter

 

But to be fair if a 90% damage reduction Valkyr is dying too quickly to go on the team should be running away or not have her there if they intend to go for more than an hour

 

Please keep discussions about other frames to a minimum.  If you would like to discuss them in more detail with another member, kindly respect the criteria outlined in the OP and take it to Private Messaging.

[Jax_Cavalera]

Kudos to the OP.  Jax has done a good job of accepting the feedback he received in the other thread and his suggestions are valid in my book.  It feels good to get through to people once in a while.  

 

For sure, the 300 damage explosion is weird and unsatisfying.  I haven't been able to come up with anything clever for it, though.  The implosion idea would be OK IMO, as long as the radius remained small.

 

I also think that Pull should not ragdoll as it does now, but gather enemies up and stagger them so you can follow up with explosions and melee.  It would still be good chain-cc but if you want to knock the whole room down it should be Crush that does that, not your 1 ability.  This would make both abilities fun and useful.  Adding a slow or puncture proc to Crush would also fit thematically and cement it as a good ability that isn't overpowered.  

 

Ahh now this is interesting..

 

I love this idea of Pull working as you describe.   It would go from being inconsistent CC to an amazing utility prep for Shield Polarize or Bullet Attractor pulling the room into a tight little bunch similar to Vortex I would guess but with a higher range on it.

 

Then you can use SP, BA  or whatever you feel would work best

 

Would it require a target to execute or would it just pull everything towards the location of your crosshair?.

 

 

I don't mind pull knocking enemies down from their feet if it is not changed, since when enemies pull you towards them you are effectively Ragdolled for a good 3 Seconds at least and so it seems reasonable to return the favour.

[RealPandemonium]

Ahh now this is interesting..

 

I love this idea of Pull working as you describe.   It would go from being inconsistent CC to an amazing utility prep for Shield Polarize or Bullet Attractor pulling the room into a tight little bunch similar to Vortex I would guess but with a higher range on it.

 

Then you can use SP, BA  or whatever you feel would work best

 

Would it require a target to execute or would it just pull everything towards the location of your crosshair?.

 

 

I don't mind pull knocking enemies down from their feet if it is not changed, since when enemies pull you towards them you are effectively Ragdolled for a good 3 Seconds at least and so it seems reasonable to return the favour.

I envision it as pulling enemies something like 15m toward the front of your heading and not requiring a target.  It would require several casts to gather a whole room from 40m away but you could do that and then slide attack into them, fire an explosive, cast SP or BA, whatever you want.  Fun and effective, imo.  

Edited July 28, 2014 by RealPandemonium