Not Everyone Wants This Game To Be Harder!

[inappropriatename5818]

I am a warframe player. I enjoy playing warframe a lot. Recent changes made me enjoy warframe less, infested changes to be exact.  

Now I won't nitpick what is wrong with changes, but I want this out there. I don't want this game to be harder.  

Add difficulty, don't change it!  

A lot of people complain that this game is too easy and yes, it is not hard with Rhino and 5 forma Boltor Prime, but do those people ever think "hm, maybe not everyone wants this game to be hard and we're ruining the game for people that like the current difficulty?". By the looks of it, no they don't.  

 

The problem with constant raising of difficulty is less weapons are viable, less startegies, builds are viable. Ramp up the difficulty too high and only 1 weapon and certain frame setup will work.  

 

I'm sure people that asked for higher difficulty are happy when game gets harder, but a lot of us aren't. I don't want to always use my maxed out loadout for any remotely long mission, just because everything else is trash due to the difficulty.   

Also, you have to think about new players, when spawnrate of leaders went up, sure the people that asked for it were happy, but put yourself into shoes of a new player. You don't know why that guy is glowing, you just know he is in a bubble that you can't seem to kill. Do I dash in and start meleeing or do I try to shoot his bubble out? Oh look, there's more of them.  

 

Same thing with the stalker. I was farming T4 keys on Augustus - Mars and my lvl 25 2 forma dex furis was no match  for stalker. How is a mastery rank 2 player with a braton supposed to remotely deal with him? Just because he is too easy to kill by 4 rhinos with 5forma Boltor Prime that are farming for him.  

 

Difficulty should be added not raised, I applaud the T4 void addition, you can go play that for a challenge, but don't have to. With the infested changes for example you have no choice, you just have to accept that your 20K absorb won't kill the lvl 20 runner, because people thought the game was too easy.  

 

That's my rant about warframe's current direction. Having harder difficulty to test yourself out with is nice, but not when you constantly have to deal with it.

[noveltyhero]

Yep, this.

 

A difficulty option should be implemented so those looking for challenges: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/271503-option-to-choose-desired-difficulty/

 

The base difficulty needs to be adjusted slightly, right now past wave 5 it gets surprisingly and annoyingly hard on Eris

[-FrostByte-]

i think it has already been said that a difficulty setting will be added

 

easy gets reduced exp

 

normal gets normal exp

 

hard gets bonus exp

[Doughalo2]

All they need to do is let us decide difficulty !!!

[KirukaChan]

I am a warframe player. I enjoy playing warframe a lot. Recent changes made me enjoy warframe less, infested changes to be exact.  

Now I won't nitpick what is wrong with changes, but I want this out there. I don't want this game to be harder.  

Add difficulty, don't change it!  

A lot of people complain that this game is too easy and yes, it is not hard with Rhino and 5 forma Boltor Prime, but do those people ever think "hm, maybe not everyone wants this game to be hard and we're ruining the game for people that like the current difficulty?". By the looks of it, no they don't.  

 

The problem with constant raising of difficulty is less weapons are viable, less startegies, builds are viable. Ramp up the difficulty too high and only 1 weapon and certain frame setup will work.  

 

I'm sure people that asked for higher difficulty are happy when game gets harder, but a lot of us aren't. I don't want to always use my maxed out loadout for any remotely long mission, just because everything else is trash due to the difficulty.   

Also, you have to think about new players, when spawnrate of leaders went up, sure the people that asked for it were happy, but put yourself into shoes of a new player. You don't know why that guy is glowing, you just know he is in a bubble that you can't seem to kill. Do I dash in and start meleeing or do I try to shoot his bubble out? Oh look, there's more of them.  

 

Same thing with the stalker. I was farming T4 keys on Augustus - Mars and my lvl 25 2 forma dex furis was no match  for stalker. How is a mastery rank 2 player with a braton supposed to remotely deal with him? Just because he is too easy to kill by 4 rhinos with 5forma Boltor Prime that are farming for him.  

 

Difficulty should be added not raised, I applaud the T4 void addition, you can go play that for a challenge, but don't have to. With the infested changes for example you have no choice, you just have to accept that your 20K absorb won't kill the lvl 20 runner, because people thought the game was too easy.  

 

That's my rant about warframe's current direction. Having harder difficulty to test yourself out with is nice, but not when you constantly have to deal with it.

 

I'll admit, at first, I had trouble with the new Infested. However, I've adapted to their tricks, without having to change much in the way of my preferred gear. I can't just rely on Ignis alone against them anymore like I used to; I have to actually target the Healers individually first with my secondary/melee/skills. The faction is more interesting now. Before, they were literally cannon fodder until they got past level 30 or so (unless I was hot dogging and let myself get surrounded by Chargers), and that was regardless of which frame I was running.

 

I will agree with you on Stalker, though. I've never had a positive Stalker experience when I'm soloing, and 80% of the time, that's when he shows up.

[gnat6]

i think it has already been said that a difficulty setting will be added

 

easy gets reduced exp

 

normal gets normal exp

 

hard gets bonus exp

I don't think DE has any plans of doing anything like that although they should.

 

As for the infested changes did they make the infested more challenging? yes they did.

 

Did they make them more interesting to fight? definitely.

 

Did they make them more fun to fight? its partly a matter of opinion but personally I have to say no they did not.

 

Can they make them more fun while keeping the current infested and without changing the difficulty? I think so if they work on giving us ways to deal with them that involves more than just applying more dps.

[Gravalite]

Honestly tho, the infested needed a buff. They were just mindless bullet sponges before.

[Jumba255]

I don't like what they did to the bosses either. Vor used to be a good first boss because he was simple and easy for new players to take out. Now He can spawn lvl 30 grineer that destroy any new players and his abilities can easily kill any tenno with little to no mods. The same goes for other bosses like Sargas Ruk, although I don't mind that he's harder I mind that hes just a pain to fight now and not any fun, they should have left out the invincible armor and gave him more gadgets like they did to Vor.

 

Even Lech Krill is annoying with having to wait for him to do a specific attack before you can attack him.

[DSpite]

The stalker is a BAD example for anything. He is meant to kill you. That's the frigging point. He is supposed to show up when you are in your pajamas, drinking your hot coco, why would he always show up when you're wearing a tank? Working as intended.

 

Difficulty? You can pick any planet with mobs 1-30, then you have the void stuff. I don't think telling us that you were "farming" T4 keys then complaining about difficulty is a good idea. You are farming to go farm T4 missions.

 

I restarted an Excalibur from scratch, not giving him mods other then his own loot drops, and it's quite fun. Missions are challenging, and I got a few "gg" from players when we are all firing off abilities every which way just to keep ourselves in double digit shield values, and even then it only happens in the Defense and Survival missions that we are trying to "clear" nodes for on planets.

 

Any difficulty is offset by making a few friends with similar level frames, or simply waiting in a queue until a full team forms - but this way you might get some "unbalance" - as far as Endless difficulty scaling, screw you that's what. I'm tired of explaining that this game is not Dungeon Defenders. We're Ninja on missions, this is not a Turret Defense game.

[Endrance]

I've said since the beggining of the Open BETA 1 year ago.

 

The difficulty setting on this game, must, or should be like Diablo 3.

 

An option witch you choose the difficulty setting, witch would increase/decrease damage mitigation, damage output and meatshields. Also increasing/decreasing the drop rate of items/mods accordingly to the difficulty setup.

 

This way, those who want a really hard mission with nice reward, would go to (Diablo 3 spoiler) Hard Torment 6 for the increased XP, Drops etc, those who just want to chill out with killing some mobs, would go normal Tormant 0.

 

In case of warframe, the difficulty setup would also increase enemy AI with strategies and ambushes and stuff.

 

The end, difficulty problem solved.

[notlamprey]

The stalker is a BAD example for anything. He is meant to kill you. That's the frigging point. He is supposed to show up when you are in your pajamas, drinking your hot coco, why would he always show up when you're wearing a tank? Working as intended.

 

Difficulty? You can pick any planet with mobs 1-30, then you have the void stuff. I don't think telling us that you were "farming" T4 keys then complaining about difficulty is a good idea. You are farming to go farm T4 missions.

 

I restarted an Excalibur from scratch, not giving him mods other then his own loot drops, and it's quite fun. Missions are challenging, and I got a few "gg" from players when we are all firing off abilities every which way just to keep ourselves in double digit shield values, and even then it only happens in the Defense and Survival missions that we are trying to "clear" nodes for on planets.

 

Any difficulty is offset by making a few friends with similar level frames, or simply waiting in a queue until a full team forms - but this way you might get some "unbalance" - as far as Endless difficulty scaling, screw you that's what. I'm tired of explaining that this game is not Dungeon Defenders. We're Ninja on missions, this is not a Turret Defense game.

 

You're going to see a lot of this, unfortunately. People don't always understand that you're not suggesting we lower the difficulty ceiling.

[DjaAkh]

Would like to point out, that the other way around should be implemented, too. I'm a bit bored by farming i.e. earth for kubrow mods or T1 missions for prime drops, especially while all my weapons / frames are at mid range lvl.

I don't like the fixed lvl idea. If DE want's to stick to that, they at least should allow for nightmare / normal / easy mode for every single mission (including towers, derelicts,...).

[Anatolius]

I've seen ui glitches of difficulty settings in the game but they are simply inactive right now.

The infested needed a buff so bad it was laughable fighting them and considering them a major threat. Nothing stopped you from getting on a box and shooting them besides a few of them that would get up there, nothing a Sentinel couldn't fix.

I like change in this game in general so I'm biased but I would say that they are relatively up to par with the other factions considering they have no guns and reply heavily on chase.

Also stalker was designed to be hard. He was always hard (for unexperienced players especially).that's why he scales to be harder. (Vor scales too if you attempt to bring your mastery level 10 friend with you.)

So as much as wave 50 on xini is, the infested didn't have the punch the back it up. It's like going to a gun fight with your bare fists.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Anatolius

[Mazikeen]

i think it has already been said that a difficulty setting will be added

 

easy gets reduced exp

 

normal gets normal exp

 

hard gets bonus exp

 

Weird idea. Hard mode should be for the best loadouts, the already maxed weapons and frames... What is the point of additional XP when everything is already maxed? But, in the end, in Warframe, adding a "difficulty VS reward" system that works will be a serious challenge.

 

Then, it will be hard to tune correctly any difficulty setting without addressing the powercreep tendency of the game. If you plan the hard difficulty for an potato'ed-8 forma'ed boltor prime (which the OP seems to like so much), there won't be a lot of choices... If you tuned it for a potato'ed braton prime, many weapons will make this hard mode a joke.

 

The crowd controls might also need some tweaking. For an organized team, what is the difference between a level 1 and a level 1000 enemy? The health/armor. Just because it will be disarmed+slowed by 75%, fighting his friends, trapped in a vortex or whatever. Their damage, their powers, their IA are all pointless.

 

And we can continue for a long time like that. There are many things to fix before even thinking about new difficulty settings.

[kuri99]

I thought there already was a difficulty option in the game. Its called nightmare mode. There are also further difficulty setters though theyre more like dark souls in the sense that you can artificially make the game easier or harder on yourself. What Im getting at is intentionally gimping yourself by using less effective mods on weapons and warframes.

 

Many people might think thats silly but it more of an old school attitude toward difficulty. Years ago when I mastered the original X-com I felt like the game just couldnt get any harder. Then I realized I can just limit myself to one base on one continent. This same kind of thinking is why challenge runs are so popular in Dark souls. Level 1, no upgrades, or specific styles of fighting are all popular challenges in that game.

 

If people want the game to be harder they have the ability to challenge themselves by taking substandard equipment into missions, running it solo, limiting ones self to specific fighting styles or weaponry thats considered subpar. There really is a lot an individual player can do to derive greater challenge from the game without having an actual higher difficulty setting.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Since you could stand on a ledge and just rain down explosions on infested for a brain-dead win before U14, they needed to be made harder.

 

The game should be main harder overall, but it should also be made fairer (like build-up meters for status effects).  It also should not be made harder solely through artificial difficulty (just raising enemy HP, damage output, and Def numbers).

[vaugahn]

I'm gonna have to agree with DesecratedFlame here. (that's a first XD)

 

This game goes from easy to pitifully easy as you level up, and the only real challenge you get is from silly unavoidable attacks and other nonsense like that. This isn't what we need. Enemies like the shield lancer are as close as we get to real difficulty right now, and even then not really. We need enemies and hazards that force us to play intelligently and react to our surroundings, instead of just one-shotting everything until it one-shots you back. New infested are a step in the right direction, but still not really. We'll see how it goes.

[Mazikeen]

I thought there already was a difficulty option in the game. Its called nightmare mode. There are also further difficulty setters though theyre more like dark souls in the sense that you can artificially make the game easier or harder on yourself. What Im getting at is intentionally gimping yourself by using less effective mods on weapons and warframes.

 

Many people might think thats silly but it more of an old school attitude toward difficulty. Years ago when I mastered the original X-com I felt like the game just couldnt get any harder. Then I realized I can just limit myself to one base on one continent. This same kind of thinking is why challenge runs are so popular in Dark souls. Level 1, no upgrades, or specific styles of fighting are all popular challenges in that game.

 

If people want the game to be harder they have the ability to challenge themselves by taking substandard equipment into missions, running it solo, limiting ones self to specific fighting styles or weaponry thats considered subpar. There really is a lot an individual player can do to derive greater challenge from the game without having an actual higher difficulty setting.

 

Indeed, that's old school :)

 

I would just like to point out something regarding this recurrent idea of self-gimping for challenge:

 

Warframe chose the MMORPG style of progression. Player level, gain power, polish their equipment. Power and collection are the main aims for a lot of people.

 

Thus, many people are expecting MMORPG style of challenge:

- Almost impossible without good gear

- Defined by the developers

- No way to cheese it out (except for exploits that are often quickly fixed)

 

The paradox in Warframe, contrary to most MMORPG, is that there is no content for polished equipment. DE decided to distribute formas like candies. That makes them part of player progression, but using them makes the game boring. Players are punished for playing the game the way DE orients it.

 

But that does not invalidates the point of the OP (casual and new players) nor yours (old style). It's just a different view of the same thing.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Mazikeen

[zombisa]

You do realize that we want end game content to be harder, not everything? Early game content is fine or maybe needs a nerf or two on leaders spawn rate and type, maybe... But the Void needs to be hard. It needs to give players a challenge where not only weapons and frames matter, but skill also.

 

Players that want the game to be harder want from enemies to adapt to our tactics, group around the heavies to support them, take some kind of formations, ambushes and stuff like that, not just bigger bullet sponges.

 

You don't like stalker being difficult, well to bad. He is suppose to be that way, and he is a serious threat when you are not prepared. Why shouldn't he be? Lol.

 

And Infested missions are no longer easy, sorry for you not being able to get tons of xp and loot that easy. Hell, ODD before U14 was just standing on a lamp and shooting your Ogris or Penta and not moving. You could literally go to wave 40 with just using your mouse and not moving at all! Infested missions were almost an exploit! But don't worry, I'm sure DE will make some missions with infested easy or easier.

 

And that statement about 1 weapon and 1 frame only being viable is bullcrap. Sure, some weapons are better than others, and that's how it suppose to be or there wouldn't be any progression with weapons.

Banshee, one of the underused frames is great in T4, she does some cc and Sonar is great! The only frames that shouldn't be in T4 are Oberon and Ember, but they have their roles in some other places.

 

I'm sorry, but your thread is wrong in so many ways. 80% of Warframe is easy and if you don't like it difficult go play that 80%. In every game there is a line between casuals and serious players and content, so if you go to our side of the line, don't try to change it because it's not your side. There is plenty content for you and somewhat not so much for us, and you want even less?

[zombisa]

I will agree with you on Stalker, though. I've never had a positive Stalker experience when I'm soloing, and 80% of the time, that's when he shows up.

Since when is Stalker suppose to be a positive experience?

[Semshol]

-OP's Post-

 

You talk about difficulty...I really don't think you know what it means.

 

First, you want to kill a stalker with just a 2 forma dex furis on your own? This guy is meant to be taken down by parties, therefore I think it is fair that only a solo tenno with extremely powerful weapons can kill him. In case you didn't catch the point, the Stalker is a reason to play in a TEAM, not solo like kirito and then whine about difficulty.

 

Next you harp on the Boltor Prime with 5 formas being the best weapon? I will agree that Boltor Prime is the highest damaging RIFLE, but have you tried a Loki with a Boar Prime using a maxed out build? Or a Latron Prime...ever tried that? Or a dread maybe...it's pretty good...y'know if you can aim (I admit I can't, but I know people who can).

 

1 frame, 1 loadout...does not exist in this game. Try out a Nyx with a 50m+ Chaos range. Damn near untouchable. OH and incase you didn't know the trick that everybody figured out basically on day one of the infested changes. Nyx's Chaos deactivates the Infested eximus auras as long as two of the ancients are within general aura range of each other. Try it some time, it's hilarious how they become a joke once more.

 

What about other races you say? Maximized Mag wrecks Corpus and Void enemies, anything with a shield. DIES.

 

Or maybe you'd like to test out my Shadow Nekros, fast casting, maxed out shields and health, 9 shadows, energy efficiency and desecrate spam all in one. The only requirement is you actually have to know how to use the frame instead of standing there and pressing 3.

 

Of course my favourite is still my Loki Prime, he's very prime.

 

Now then, while I do agree that not everyone likes a challenge. There are ways of overcoming the present 'challenges', unless of course you're a mindless bullet sponge that is no different to the enemies we currently face. Adapt your tactics, use your warframes, work with what you have.

 

The only thing that I would like DE to do, is tone down the present difficulty of Mercury and Venus. The corpus in those regions are a little too extreme for newbies to handle. Other than that, things are...more or less okay.

[Onisa]

You do realize that we want end game content to be harder, not everything? Early game content is fine or maybe needs a nerf or two on leaders spawn rate and type, maybe... But the Void needs to be hard. It needs to give players a challenge where not only weapons and frames matter, but skill also.

 

Players that want the game to be harder want from enemies to adapt to our tactics, group around the heavies to support them, take some kind of formations, ambushes and stuff like that, not just bigger bullet sponges.

 

You don't like stalker being difficult, well to bad. He is suppose to be that way, and he is a serious threat when you are not prepared. Why shouldn't he be? Lol.

 

And Infested missions are no longer easy, sorry for you not being able to get tons of xp and loot that easy. Hell, ODD before U14 was just standing on a lamp and shooting your Ogris or Penta and not moving. You could literally go to wave 40 with just using your mouse and not moving at all! Infested missions were almost an exploit! But don't worry, I'm sure DE will make some missions with infested easy or easier.

 

And that statement about 1 weapon and 1 frame only being viable is bullcrap. Sure, some weapons are better than others, and that's how it suppose to be or there wouldn't be any progression with weapons.

Banshee, one of the underused frames is great in T4, she does some cc and Sonar is great! The only frames that shouldn't be in T4 are Oberon and Ember, but they have their roles in some other places.

 

I'm sorry, but your thread is wrong in so many ways. 80% of Warframe is easy and if you don't like it difficult go play that 80%. In every game there is a line between casuals and serious players and content, so if you go to our side of the line, don't try to change it because it's not your side. There is plenty content for you and somewhat not so much for us, and you want even less?

I take it you weren't around for the interception fiasco on Earth. Or the  broken lights. Or any of the other times DE has added new, difficult content to the 'newbie' planets just so everyone can experience it. OP isn't calling for a nerf to your '20%', he's saying to be careful about ramping up the lowbie areas. Because the last level should be harder than the first, not the other way around.

 

Since when is Stalker suppose to be a positive experience?

As far as the stalker goes, a good fight is a positive experience. Not a coin flip to see who one shots who.

 

 

Out of curiosity, how many stars are in your normal load out? This question applies to everyone who feels the game needs to be harder.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Out of curiosity, how many stars are in your normal load out? This question applies to everyone who feels the game needs to be harder.

Zero.

[optyk]

OP isn't calling for a nerf to your '20%', he's saying to be careful about ramping up the lowbie areas. Because the last level should be harder than the first, not the other way around.

 

I'm failing to see where he's asking for a difficulty reduction on the starter planets for new/casual players?

 

All I read was:

 

-He couldn't kill Stalker solo, on a Corpus Interception(no mention of what wave), while using a lvl 25 sidearm. #DeadHorseIsDead

-Infested changes are making him rethink his tactics around, which means the direction of Warframe is now 'bad'. #InstitutionalizedGameplay

 

I run the same mission as the OP, in Public mode and I'm always grouped with lower mastery level(which honestly doesn't mean squat) players who have average gear and Frames. And they do just fine and have on more than one occasion, revived me.

 

Or is this really about an easier ROI? That would make more sense, as everyone wants all the cool shiney things that come from higher challenge but without the effort. I even have a few friends with that particular mentality and the F2P label usually enables/caters to it.

 

Games with a honest learning curve are evil now it seems(someone may want to email Funcom and The Secret World).

[Zaresin]

I'm kind of confused...how easier to you want this game to get?  It isn't hard in the slightest...sooo you want it easier in all aspects?